Gun Dog Forum

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Wish someone would tell my DK girls that they are not suppose to run BIG. :lol: I had to shorten both up considerably for the PA mountain grouse woods. I don't doubt that, but BIG range is all subjective. What one might consider big ranging for PA grouse woods might not fall into the "big running" ...

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I've got a couple of Setters, and my hunting buddy has a Pointer. We hunt them from Montana to Arizona and everywhere in between as often as possible. We like the big running renegade type. I have dabbled in AF walking trials a tiny bit in the past and we just ran my one young Setter and my buddie's...

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I think part of the problem of this discussion is there are two different but related issues going on here. On the surface we are talking about breeding practices that are taking the breed away from the breed standard or away from the original German lines in hunting style, look, etc... The other is...

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as much as I love your idea I think it'd be pretty rude to take pictures of dogs off the internet to a public forum and tear them apart... I hear you and that is probably wise. Just give us some general examples without pointing to a specific dog. Is it angulation, size, color pattern etc... I can ...

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When I read these standards I see a lot of room for interpretation and I see a lot of what is considered "ideal". I'm pretty sure no dogs are perfect in every single way, so when does a dog become "out of standard" even though it meets all the hard standards (color, height, weight, etc..) but falls ...

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I would like a few of you to point out a few of the dogs you don't think look like GSPS no arguments just your opinions & why they don't look like GSPS to you. Actually I would like him to point out how these dogs don't meet the standard. There is a big difference between not having any respect for...

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You can get an actual valve, one that your operate with your hand, not a bite valve. It's techincally a Ball valve. They are made by Camelback and called the HydroLock, and the Ergo HydroLock. I use one on my Quilomene vest which has a built in camelback type bladder. I believe I found my valve at R...

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I don't have first hand experience with the kennel, but the blood in both of those litters looks really solid to me and the dogs themselves look great in the pictures. Based on the "paper" I would expect that pups from the one litter would be more inclined to be rangier than the other. I think both ...

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My sample size is small with King Llews, but their hunting prowess was only so-so. The number of health issues was very alarming. I may have just been unluckly as like I said I have only "known" a few firthand, but based on what I have seen I could not recommend this kennel to anyone I know.

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First is that the AKC created written standards for a breed. That isn't what happened in the past or now. The breeders who got together to form a club and they wrote the standards so everyone would know what a breed should look like and how it should perform. Who are these breeders? This is not at ...

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GspJustin, That is all your oponion and that is fine, you are certainly entitled to it. The fact is though that many breeds have been around much longer than any of breed standards as we think of them today. These breeds have been being bred in exactly the ways and for the reasons I describe, to imp...

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I think right here is the thinking of many people. And I have no quarrel with it if we are talking hunting dogs. But if we are talking a certain breed of dog then it is exactly wrong. No Ezzy, that is my opinion, as well as many others, and it's not wrong. Your opinon just happens to be different. ...

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What is the advantage of maintaining the Show/Field tie? There is really no evidence that the breeds that haven't split hold any inherint advantages over breeds that have split. Do the "Dual" breeds exhibit any advantage over the "split" breeds in open competition in the field? No Is there any evide...

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nice job on figuring out the pictures Buckmaster, Look like your kids are certain enjoying their four legged friend too. I certainly have a soft spot for setters. I used to be the little kid rolling around on the floor or ground with a sad eyed setter patiently putting up with me! I do still get bac...

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Hello Buckmaster glad you joined, Well I'm certainly glad you are enjoying your DeCoverly setter, that is truly what is most important. I'm originally from upstate NY and I am familiar with the breeders you mention, I have owned dogs and seen lots of dogs from those very lines hunt. I guess we will ...

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and although some would argue they mature more slowly than some other breeds...they pretty much teach themselves..and although I was a skeptic at first....learn to handle birds...wild birds with an almost mystical skill with no real training other than exposure and time in the field. Do you want an...

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I do not own pointing labs but have seen some in action. The thing that I have seen is that pointing labs will indeed point, but not neccessarily consistently. What most pointing lab owners I know say is that if birds sit tight their dogs tend to point them, but if the birds run, their PL will flush...

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You need to recalibrate the compass frequently, I do it at least once a day. Oh, and YOU don't need to spin in a circle, you just need to spin the unit itself around which you can do while standing still (or in a saddle). But that of course is one's choice, if you prefer to spin, or skip and spin an...

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I agree, but there will be LOTS of people who won't, not when you've got a bunch of other Pointers that supposedly finished with at least good races and with more finds. I respect the judges decisions, but I gurantee it will cause controversy. A callback seems like a better choice UNLESS Jet's perfo...

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I would also like to add that as a Setter guy I really hope they have a call back with Jet in it. I would actually RATHER have that than have them give Jet the nod outright right now. That would cause a ton of controversy. I want a Setter to win Ames, but I want it to be a true win, not a questionab...

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I was thinking it was between Snowatch and Coin. I don't think the setter out did either of those dogs. But who knows what they look at. Curious what you base that on? What you read on the Ames site or from actual observers? I have seen several folks who were there say that they felt JetSetter had ...

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For the original poster, the grooming is very very similar. I have hunted with both breeds for many many years in habitat going from thick ruffed grouse cover in the North East to Mearns country in the SW, there is very little difference in the amount of burrs they pick up. They are both good breeds...

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There are quite a few states were an average Joe can hunt wild pheasants in respectable numbers without paying for land access on hundreds of thousands, if not millions of acres. North Dakota, South Dakota, and Kansas are all good bets. Nebraska and Montana are other places where I have had good hun...

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Flush Wrote: it does prove a convenient excuse if you run anything other than a Pointer and don't want to face reality. I say that as a Setter guy. Reality of What?? The Reality of the fact you got beat plain and simple by a better performance that day and it had nothing to do with breed. You run a...

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This is true,,,, but don't think it had anything to do with being a setter,,,, just plain got beat,,,,all but one of the pointers get beat there year after year. I can't think of a setter that has even finished the 3 hours in along time. Exactly what I was thinking. There is nothing even close to e...

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Get'em Nowicki! Ray, You forgot to add that most of these AF sanctioned trials were already up and running when the newer breed restricted stakes got started. It's not like there were no trials out there for the "other" dogs to run in. Many of the existing AF trials already had lots of tradition and...

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Neil, I bet your estimates are pretty close. We run astros all the time now and have several big running All-age bred Setters and Pointers, some of them offspring of dogs at Ames this year and last. I'm going to assume our dogs don't have the speed and endurance of the dogs at Ames. We won't normall...

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just ASKING if you all think that will hurt his chances or is there so much more to this that the judges will ignore it. Kristi IMHO. There is way way more to the trial. Would it be better if he was high and tight even after the flush? Sure. Is it a deal breaker? Absolutely not in my opinion. There...

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LOL
Ya sorry, I guess we can get back the serious business at hand of this post.
Good Luck to Grady, I'll be looking forward to hearing of his dominance in the future.

I'll also be looking forward to the other big talking Britt owners winning some AF CH All age stakes.
A

-Flush

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Assuming you want a pointing dog, Just stick with the big four (Britt, Setter, GSP, E. Pointer) from proven lines and for the most part you will be in good shape. There is no universal rule as to which one is easier to train. Some trainers prefer one breed to another and other trainers will say the ...

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You guys should come out west and rock and roll on the prairies or in the western hills All-age style. You'll see just how exactly there is no difference in breeds. I bet those sub 20.5" inchers will roll right along with the big dogs, or then again maybe they won't. Not a one has yet. I'm just play...

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KY Grouse Hunter, You would be considered a Pro, at least by American Field rules. You took money for training a dog (regardless if you run those dogs or not) which is called out specifically in the rules, I'm using the AFCTA as my basis here (which is part of the AF) but I think that part of the ru...

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I've read that the llewellins seem to have more natural ability and need less training. Is there anything to that? NO, NO, and one more time NO! Where did you read that, A Llewellin breeder's website? The reality is you can't take ANYTHING for granted when it comes to overall differences between Ll...

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TB72, Actually you should do some google searches on "Lawrence Myers" and "scenting" and "breeds" and look at some of the stuff that is available on the net. While there are quite a few references to breed to breed variation being less significant than inner breed variation, There IS some evidence t...

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Get what you really want. Setters do love people, but they also do just fine in kennels. Setters have been around for a very long time, both with hunters and trialers and it wasn't until very recently that ANY of them lived in homes. I have two setters that sleep on my bed every night but my family ...

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tommy, you are welcome to think what ever you want from the "data" presented and I personally think Pointers would be indeed at the higher end of a scenting list. However If you read what was posted carefully it's not clear who did the testing. I don't think the statement about the breed testing was...

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Yep I gotch ya tb72. I too think it would be interesting to see those studies, just for curiosity sake if nothing else. I think it would be very difficult and expensive to do such test accurately but none the less it would be interesting. You would need quite big sample sizes from a geneticaly diver...

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I think there is so much about a dogs scenting ability that we can't understand it makes these discussions difficult. I would be sceptical of anyone using scenting "tests" trying to translate that info into actual bird hunting ability. For example if the "test" didn't use live game birds as the scen...

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.If you give this just a little thought,you can figure out that there would be no time better than now to make Llewellins out of English,hope no one does,but I would bet someone will. Actually for the last 100 years it would have been even easier than it is today. Until very recently ALL breeds hav...

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The DNA testing is NOT to prove that dogs go all the way back to Duke, Rhoebe, Laverack. The DNA testing is simply to prove a pups parents are who you say they are. It's to prevent problems going forward, not prove anything about the past. This DNA issue became important when prominent Llew breeder ...

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I really don't know who will be the next big thing in the Pointer world, but my main hunting partner got a puppy out of Erins Bad River last year and this pup is pretty amazing. His run, style and point are really remarkable and he is 100% natural.

-Flush

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was half what the price of a Decoverly English Setter would cost you. True but DeCoverly is a whole nother can of "marketing" worms in its own right. Thats like saying Roseanne Barr is skinny and your only point of reference is Rosie Odonnel. I agree though, both the Llew supporters and Llew basher...

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I think your question is actualy not that difficult to answer. The Llews are just a specific type or "strain" of English Setter, they are still English setters. Apparently the FDSB did agree the Llews diserved their own registration but the FDSB didn't really decide Llews were a whole seperate breed...

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I have also never figured out why they ever allowed a Llewellin,English setter litter cross to be papered as English setters as it was documented that the Llewellin setter blood was not pure.Seems to me they knowingly tainted the pure English setter bloodline. I understand your point, but I think y...

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Looks like a great time. Can you give us some more details on the francolin hunting. It appears they like the more open country? Is the type of country you found them on pretty widespread? (I've never been to Hawaii) Are they in singles and pairs, and not covies? About 50% bigger than a quail would ...

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.I'm not faulting anyone,if that's what a person want's and makes them happy then that is fine,it just does not look natural to me. Well thats fine but I can assure you some dogs point naturally high and tight. Maybe your dogs don't, but some do. In some dogs it's probably a trained/learned behavio...

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Yawallac,

In addition to the tri-color, did any of those pups come out with longish hair?

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I never leave a field trial dog down longer than an hour and half, as you say they will start paceing themselves. Ok good, I feel better now. At the end of that hunt we were thinking out loud what distances the dogs at Ames cover, I would think a fair bit more than my Setter did as she couldn't run...

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Over this past weekend in one 3 hour jaunt we covered about 6.5miles on that hunt My Setter covered 27.75miles and my bud's Brittany was at about 19miles. Overall we covered 12, 14, and 11 miles each day over a 3-day weekend. I used to be a pretty avid hiker/backpacker and I don't consider those dis...

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This past Sunday on a Hun/Sharptail hunt in Montana we had the dogs down for just a touch under 3 hours and my Setter ran 27.75 miles. That was really running, even for her. The cool part was she pointed Huns, Sharptail, and one lone Sage Grouse on that hunt. Bird contacts really help to keep them p...

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