Gun Dog Forum

578SLE

Given the following: I have a 9 month old GSP...and though he comes to a whistle pretty well, he got to chasing a running bird and lost his mind.....and apparently his hearing. He's been trained with an e-collar but I try not to hit him too much at this point, especially around birds...In those mome...

578SLE

How did you teach "here"? If you are using an e-collar, the collar should be overlaid the check cord on the command "here." That is to say, once the dog is responding to the "here" command and a quick sharp tug from the check cord and coming to you on his own (not being reeled in), overlay a very li...

578SLE

I would like to make a couple of points regarding the e-collar: First: The modern e-collar is perhaps the most important training tool since the advent of the lease/lead. It allows us to teach dogs very quickly and humanely all kinds of things "if" used properly --and just like the pinch collar, in ...

578SLE

It is a bit of a drive north, but Ft. Hunter Liggett and the Los Padres National Forest are excellent places to hunt quail. Also, there are a lot of mountains to hunt for chukar and quail south of Mercy Hot Springs in the Panoche Hills (35,000 acres), Griswold Hills, and Curry Mountain.

578SLE

5E, That was a compliment not sarcasm. You obviously "mastered" what it took to fix your dog. You started out knowing little but now you've "been there - done that" and you're offering advice to help someone else. Good for you. I was not jerking your chain. Wow, people are so quick to take anything...

578SLE

Mark, Never claimed to be a "master." Is this thread for masters only? If so, I apologize up front for my "transgression." I only try and chime in when I have direct, hands-on, experience. But, I will tell you this... after spending time with several different "whoa" trainers, I am definitely a disc...

578SLE

SC, You can also do an advanced search on this site to look at other threads that discussed flagging. Select "advanced search" in the upper right edge of the screen, enter the topic "flagging" & you will get lots of results. Here is one of the old threads you can check out: viewtopic.php?f=89&t=173...

578SLE

Not a problem I don't think. He froze in the position he was in when skidding to the stop. That's what you want in my opinion. If he was standing tall when he stopped and then lowered himself that might be a problem. Just let him learn with exposure and I think you will be OK Sounds like good advic...

578SLE

Super,

Good luck working it out. If you find another way of getting the dog tight, I would love to hear how you did it. Don't hesitate to PM some of the members of this board.

Best,

578SLE

I want to be clear about what I meant by "hobbled" birds. I do not mean dizzied, carded, or restricted birds by any manner. They are birds that CAN and MUST fly, they can even walk, but they cannot RUN. The way this is accomplished on a pheasant is simple. Take a rubber band, loop one end over the p...

578SLE

It would be nice to know a little more information: 1. How old is the dog? 2. What kind of birds is the dog pointing on your "walks"? What is the terrain, conditions, is the dog on a check cord, etc... 3. What are your objectives with the pheasants you are buying? Are these training birds? How many ...

578SLE

When using launchers it is Wagging big time to the point where her but is also wagging! Without launchers I would still say it is wagging. It sounds a little contradictory but everywhere else she is really intense. Sounds to me like your dog is flagging and it is man-made from too much pressure and...

578SLE

When I originally posted on this the thread, I said that may professional trainers are very successful touching dogs on point. However, I have come to learn that many successful trainers are training dogs from a particular line or that respond well to a particular style of training. Their success in...

578SLE

Gonehuntin wrote: I MAKE the dog pull ME forward toward the bumper. I want force to mean something. When I say "fetch", I want that dog to whimper a little and pull ME toward the dowel or bumper. At first, they'll be sitting and just pull my hand on their collar toward the bumper when I command fetc...

578SLE

Crackerd wrote: 578, with the old ways of force fetching, what you're describing might've been essential, and still may be for many gundogs. But it needn't be. Think about what you wrote and then interject this: Retrievers retrieve, so they're going to put in their mouth anything you put in front of...

578SLE

You can get the Bill Gibbon's Video, which is essentially what I described above, from this source: Higginsgundogs.com

578SLE

Everyone is right on. The behavior you are describing in typical Griff stuff. As I said before, Griffs are a little different from other dogs. Think of the "hold" command as a preliminary warm-up for "fetch." You really don't even need to name it, although for some it helps. At this point, you shoul...

578SLE

I agree with Gonehuntin. I have worked quite a few Griffs and they are some of the most temperamental dogs I have ever been around. In general, they don't like pressure and respond in unpredictable ways to stress and correction. They are one of the few dogs that, under normal conditions that if they...

578SLE

An experienced dog can "smell" the difference between a live bird, a wounded bird, a dead bird, and a bird that was there 15, 30, 45, and 60 minutes ago. If you somehow get a dog to start pointing wings, then your dog is going to have a lot of unproductive points in the field. At best, this is very ...

578SLE

I am familiar with Higgin's technique for a trained retrieve. No sure how it differs from Mo's, but I would like to know too.

578SLE

My experience has taught me that many dogs will tolerate and/or not be negatively affected by the things that trainers do to a dog on point, such as stroking up a dog, standing a dog up, talking to a dog, whoa-ing a dog etc... But then there are also a great deal of quality dogs that are deeply affe...

578SLE

Again, I agree 100% with Snips. People are always yapping at their dogs, petting and stroking them wonder why they flag on point. If a dog is concentrating on what it's doing, don't break that concentration and give it something else to think about. As far as "styling a dog up" goes, God gives that...

578SLE

The most effective way that I have found to use an e-collar, whether training a retriever or a pointing dog, is to "overlay" the cue from the e-collar with a command already learned on a pinch collar. Tri-Tronics has a simple video they send with all their collars that perhaps you should watch. http...

578SLE

Wow, I am surprised that this thread is still up. Cody, I am sure you have read this thread from the beginning. There is some really good information here --better than I have found in most places. Sound to me, without seeing the dog, that the dog has seen too many "set-up" training situations and t...

578SLE

Elizabeth (Kerplunk) -- I am so sorry to hear about your dog. In Spanish there is a saying for a situation like this in which we say "qué pena" --which best translated, says "what sadness you must be suffering." Thank you sharing your story with us --which is unfortunately much too common. Willie Hu...

578SLE

Thanks for all the great advice. I have the brass tag riveted to my dog's collar "without" her name and the words "REWARD" "CALL COLLECT" and my cell phone number and my house number on it. I have heard of the clothing trick, but was not sure if it actually worked. Sounds like it does sometimes. The...

578SLE

Thank God this hasn't happened to me, but I am curious about the do's and don'ts if or when you loose your dog while hunting in big country. While running my "medium" range GSP ("medium," in comparison to all the horse back FT guys with 1000 yard dogs), there have been times when she has been out of...

578SLE

I would strongly not suggest Paul Long's book if you are looking for "How to train" instruction manual. I am sure Paul Long is a fine trainer, and the book has some valuable information but it is dated and there are better ways for an amateur to learn "how" to train. Rather, I would suggest that you...

578SLE

A couple of corrections. After doing a little research: 1. As far as a myth, it seems that the notion that Delmar Smith was illiterate (as I had stated) is part of the myth and lore of the man. Bill Tarrant wrote that "Delmar speaks Oklahoma Sanskrit" and that he "never makes a good sentence, but al...

578SLE

I have been working on getting her used to noise and relating it to good things. she food bowl is metal and I drop it every time before she is feed and I bought a little kids caps gun and will fire it off some times when she is getting a treat or being petted. she doesn't even seem to notice or min...

578SLE

Duane wrote, Man all I have to ask have you ever met the man to base your opinion of the book on anything involved with reality. I have and can tell you from first hand experience what was written is the truth, all of it. Tarrant wrote the book after spending months with Delmar, far more than anyone...

578SLE

Just a point so no one gets confused. The Smith Bros. make cough drops while Rick, Delmar's son, and Ronnie Smith, Delmar's nephew, are the cousins who put on the seminars about the training methods they learned from Delmar first hand and not by reading a book. Ezzy Too funny and thanks for the gen...

578SLE

Essential items to be included:

"two asprin and about 6 beers and try it again tomorrow"

578SLE

My critique of the The Delmar Smith Method has nothing to do with Delmar Smith or his training method, but rather has to do with the book written about him by Bill Tarrant. For most of us, Tarrant's book is the way in which we have come to know and love Delmar Smith. I have to admit, I really enjoy ...

578SLE

Ok.... So you have several different retrieving issues here: 1. Not bringing the bird all the way back (dropping the object) 2. Hard mouthed You say you play ball with the dog, so I am going to assume your dog has what we call some natural retrieve. Given that it is very hard to read a dog I have ne...

578SLE

My suggestion would be to find a good pro-trainer near you who can work with both you and your dog. You can learn the basics, train, do some homework, and he or she can help you in the final stages of finishing your dog. You also need to figure out before hand how you are going to train this dog (i....

578SLE

"Pressure," when it comes to dog training, is a somewhat misunderstood term. When discussing "pressure," most dog handlers do not mean you are using "force," "a loud voice," inflicting "pain" or "punishment." Rather, when we say "pressure" what we mean is that you are using "obedience" training --wh...

578SLE

I would vote for the Tritronics collar also. My friend uses them and has not had any issues with them. I use Dogtra collars and while they work fine I have had them break several times. Each time Dogtra has fixed them under warranty in a very professional and timely manner, but I wouldn't want to be...

578SLE

Sounds like you got it--just be consistent and make sure you have a release command (petting the dog up and then tapping it on its side to release). Also, make sure you stand still when giving the command "here". If you start moving, it can confuse a dog --even an older dog. "Here" is perhaps the si...

578SLE

I enjoyed seeing your pictures.

578SLE

I would train "here" on a check cord so you can control what you expect from the dog. Going past you, turning, or stopping short is a sign that the dog is demonstrating independence and individual control. What you need to do is decide first what your expectations are and then train to that standard...

578SLE

I would approach this from a different angle... If we agree that dogs are 1) predators, 2) pack animals, and 3) really want to get a bird in their mouth then you have to ask yourself since you are the Alpha in the pack "is the dog creeping in step for step with you really because the previous owner ...

578SLE

Tex wrote: "What was up with the initial head turn in the very beginning of the video? I have seen my dog do this once she has been "whoa"ed and the bird has moved off a bit (wild birds). I was wondering if you have the same problem. I know if my pup is on a game bird she is rock solid as long as th...

578SLE

Gonehuntin, I really like what you said and think it is good advice: "You can teach a dog to point at any distance, but beware the problems you may generate (flagging, soft points, blinking). I think it's good to do it to teach the dog caution, then get it on wild birds and shut up; let the birds do...

578SLE

I think that given the bird flew behind the dog, you would be o.k. with that kind of movement in an AKC SH or MH test. The rules read: "Normally, a dog can move or turn inplace to mark the fall of the bird, provided no significant forward motion is made. This allows movement if the bird should happe...

578SLE

At the beginning of the season, your dog will definitely be too young to hunt. By the end of the season, running her with you in the woods wouldn't hurt, but she won't really be a hunting dog, yet. You need to be doing puppy things with her1 at this age; you should be taking the time to introduce th...

578SLE

Getting too close to birds is usually a problem associated with planted birds (especially those that have been dizzied) and letting the dog get to close to the launchers. What I would do is try a Higgin's Releaser. If you haven't seen one of these, they are very interesting. With good flying birds, ...

578SLE

I thought that looked pretty good --especially since you were using pigeons. Pigeons tend to circle after being released and while the dog moved, it look to me like the dog was marking the bird. The question really is to what level do you want to take this dog? A solid hunting dog? Master Hunter? Fi...

578SLE

As Knine mentioned, when the dog goes to sit place your foot underneath and tap upward till you get your dog's rear end just a little off the ground. With your foot still under the dog, use your hand to push down on the dog's back near the tail once and release. The dog should resist and instead spr...

578SLE

I believe style, or lack there of, has a lot to do with how much pressure both the trainer and the training method puts on the dog. It almost seems like a mathematical equation: more pressure equals less style. Where the mental make up of the dog comes into play is in how much pressure the dog can t...

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