Gun Dog Forum

RayGubernat

Mumpy - I don't do hunt tests, but if I did and my junior hunter went on point and then rousted the bird out...I'd fire a blank and then call the dog back in to me ... no matter how far away it was. I personally do not usually whoa a dog around birds, even in training. The scent of the bird should b...

RayGubernat

I don't think you should take the blame fort this. Your breeder sold you a POS that has no place in a home environment. You know what needs to be done. I am sorry, and it sucks...but...it is what it is. Euthanize the dog before he hurts someone other than yourself...and find yourself another breeder...

RayGubernat

New gun dog owner here. What is knock or as you said,"dog hasn't got the "knock" out of it yet." ? what does that mean? Not to speak for someone else, but my take on what Jonesy was saying is this... The dog may still have the "desire" to go in and try to either catch the bird or to put it in the a...

RayGubernat

Mike - Here is what I do with mine: I make the pup stand at the kennel door from a very early age. They learn to wait until I release them. I do heel/whoa drills in the yard, basically from the time the pup is 4 months old or so. The drills are very short in duration...three to five minutes. I use a...

RayGubernat

You could check out the Hackettstown auction. I believe they sell poultry there on one night of the week. I did a search on line and found that their latest poultry auction on 3/1 had pigeons sold ranging in price from $2 to $10.50. The two dollar birds are probably feral pigeons, which is what I wo...

RayGubernat

I have some thoughts on the subject. One needs to cycle a generator every so often, like once every quarter or so. if you don't the windings can become de-magnetized(or something like that) and basically the generator won't generate electricity. If you use gasoline, that means cleaning out the unit ...

RayGubernat

Shags - As has been said, most of us have all been there and know what you are feeling. They are with us for much to short a time. The thing is that those dogs, especially the special ones... do indeed leave a hole there. But the reason they leave a hole is because, in the process of worming their w...

RayGubernat

These things tend to go away overtime, but what Shags laid out as a plan will speed the process. Also...Dramamine does work. My most recent pup was a drooler. He drooled from the second he got put in the crate in the truck 'till I took him out. It was kinda gross and a gooey mess. Nervousness I gues...

RayGubernat

Don - Great photos of Bodie! I love the eyes, both as an adult and as a puppy. They look right through you... no fear, no hesitation, just trust. Awesome. They are never with us long enough...but if we are lucky they leave us memories that last a lifetime. Take care. Bust 'em up Bodie! RayG

RayGubernat

Slistoe, I've ridden with Ferrel's young protege Ike, working derbies and it's like you and Ray have stated, they don't get free rein. They are trained to stay to the front and within contact of less than 400 yards. However, I've also ridden with Tommy Davis at his and Luke's summer camp and mostly...

RayGubernat

I have a question and a couple of comments. In several of your posts you say, "when I tell a dog whoa it better not move a toenail" This to me sounds very threatening. My question is what are these dire consequences if he moves? Two questions: Do you really think a beginner can do that without inti...

RayGubernat

Personally, I would get a handle on the chase before I wasted my time on rock solid, do not move anything whoa. First, if this is a hunting dog a step or two is not an issue and if this is a competition dog whoa can be trained later with much less chance of taking the style out of the dog. Second, ...

RayGubernat

Ray, was the dog Tommy B? I don't think so, but honestly, I can't remember the dog's name. Doc Brown was out East visiting family and brought a trailer full of horses and dogs to play with. He seemed to be a very nice and very interesting gentleman. I am not a setter person, per se, but I liked wat...

RayGubernat

Bamalaw - I am sure your Cotton is a very nice dog, with top shelf breeding. Unfortunately, without field trial or hunt test credentials, there is no abiding reason why someone who wanted a performance dog or hunting dog would chose your dog over another. There are a good number of very nice GSP's o...

RayGubernat

Instead of a leash type lead, you might try a solid lead. It is basically a short "Buddy Stick", a type of training aid "invented" by Buddy Smith. A piece of 1/2" PVC, say 36" long, with a rope though it might be about right. A snap on one end, a couple inches of rope exposed and then a knot at each...

RayGubernat

Yes there is hope, It may be along process. If the dog has caught birds repeatedly you will likely have a harder time than if it has caught just a couple of weak flyers or wet birds. I would suggest that you re- train the dog to absolutely grow roots when it scents a bird. That is the first step. Th...

RayGubernat

It was quite a few years back, but I clearly remember a young setter than Dr. Marion Brown ran at the Assunpink. It was in the mi-to upper eighties and that setter derby laid down a blistering race with all the snap, crackle and pop of a truckload of rice krispies. Heckuva young dog. Best setter I e...

RayGubernat

I think that unless your rabbit is caged, things are not going to end well for the rabbit. If you have children, a graphic illustration of a predator/prey interaction might not be what you want them to witness. Dogs are predators, rabbits are prey. Predators kill and eat prey. My thoughts are that y...

RayGubernat

I'd like to make one suggestion, since you said the OB is pretty good but the "whoa " needs work. I would do heel/whoa drills in the yard, after the manner of Paul Long. I suggest you do the work silently, so that the dog can focus on your movements and go with you and stop with you, based on your m...

RayGubernat

The last two posts by Shags and Timewise mirror my sentiments. One thing, that has been previously mentioned by several folks, is that the bragging and puffery at trials and tests is, I find, actually rather minimal. I am convinced that the reason for this is the fact that the dog's performance is a...

RayGubernat

Not everyone is as nice about it as you and Shags Ray. Certainly not out to discourage a newbie but starting out as a walker in a horseback trial is still not a good idea imo and based on my experience. I only participated in walking trials. Lots of walking trials available if you don't have a hors...

RayGubernat

Yep , that is the rule. I have no problem with that. There is no question that it can be a surprise to the mounted handler...BUT... as Shags suggested, you need to deal with it in the most constructive way possible. I always try to remember that I was certainly a source of annoyance to the more expe...

RayGubernat

"The rules are such that even if a walker is braced with a horseback handler, the walker is accommodated. " quote I wouldn't recommend that. Normally the horseback rider is ticked that he has to hang back for a walker .- understandably so- NOt a good experience for a newbie. Been there. Happened to...

RayGubernat

This is one scenario where you do not want to be in any way halfhearted about it. Unfortunately, you have let your best opportunity(first encounter) slip away, so it may take several unpleasant lessons. Perhaps not, but making the dogs very first encounter with deer a highly unpleasant experience is...

RayGubernat

A lot of us have no idea where or how to start. I have my first bird dog, and while NAVHDA is a good organization and the chapters welcoming. As to getting involved with the other stuff? It isn't easy to find information to help you get going. Even finding out about upcoming trials and whatnot take...

RayGubernat

Guys - There is no question in my mind that the sport of field trialing can tend to become an obsession, slowly but surely displacing most other leisure activities. One more trial, one more dog, one more horse,, a bigger trailer... the hole we dig for ourselves just keeps getting deeper. :D :D But i...

RayGubernat

I think there are a number of reasons why bird hunters, even hard core bird hunters do not do trials , or tests. First, as gonehuntin' said, a large portion of the birdhunters out there do not have a dog that is sufficiently steady to be competitive. This is NOT a knock or a slight. The fact is that...

RayGubernat

Guys - I am truly sorry that anyone took it personally, but doubly sorry that someone got banned over it. We all benefit from the knowledge and experiences of the collective community and to lose a member is a loss to us all. I honestly hoped that there would be some airing of varying opinions and e...

RayGubernat

So, none of the thousands of retrievers running field trials and hunt test WITHOUT ECOLLARS, none of the pointing dog's running trials WITHOUT ECOLLARS, none of the versatile dog's testing in NAVHDA or German system WITHOUT ECOLLARS none of the hounds running in their stakes WITHOUT ECOLLARS, NONE ...

RayGubernat

Some years back I went out to the flint Hills of KS with a buddy. BIG 2 compartment uninsulated aluminum crate and 4 dogs inside a pickup bed with topper. It was below freezing the first night and when we went to the dogs, there was condensation on all the windows...The dogs generated THAT much heat...

RayGubernat

Dottie - With a young dog I always try to remember to have a "spare" bird in a birdbag that I am carrying. The launcher may malfunction, the bird might hop out and start walking/running away...the dog might be right on top of the bird... lots of potentially bad situations. With a bird in the pouch, ...

RayGubernat

Here in Massachusetts, most of the fields I hunt in are tiny, and the woods/brush around them are thick. My Kansas-bred Brittany was a big running beast when I rescued her but she was and is an excellent bird dog. She has gotten a bit closer working at 11 years old, and she does and has always done...

RayGubernat

Three Britts - I just looked back on this thread. I will take a moment to clarify my position. That seems to be in order. I said a pointing dog that does not get out beyond gun range is ... "well maybe not useless but certainly irrelevant." That was and still is my opinion. I do indeed stand by that...

RayGubernat

mboss - You have a dog that wants to find birds and can actually do it. That in itself is HUGE. I think your best bet would be to assume nothing and go through the steps just as you would for a puppy. I would spend some time making friends with the dog and getting it to understand his new living arr...

RayGubernat

Max2 - I also agree that the pointing percentage is not at all what I have seen in the field over the years. I hunted state grounds for a whole lot of years and saw quite a few dogs in the field. I also belonged to several different clubs and saw members dogs working. Most would hold a point pretty ...

RayGubernat

I only have a little exposure to V's, so take this for what it is worth. The ones I have seen have been smart, and I mean whip smart. They are on the sensitive side and will sulk if you press them and they don't understand why. The seem to be kinda one person type dogs. I worked with one V and he wa...

RayGubernat

Excellent post Ray. Misunderstanding often arises because folks don't know what "field trial" bred can mean. Can't image a hunter who wants a closer working dog not being very happy with a dog from a Cover Dog field trial breeding. Sharon - That is EXACTLY why I wanted folks to speak up and speak o...

RayGubernat

As a casual hunter in thick cover that is not a field trial level trainer, I cannot use an FT stock dog. Where I hunt, if a dog went out 300 yards and pointed and held,it would take me an hour to find him. I do not want to correct this issue with a gps. I want a pointer that will point and hold the...

RayGubernat

It seems like no matter how lightly you try to tread you will invariably step on some toes. I hope nobody took my responses as talking down to them or slighting their animals. I honestly could not care if or how you hunt but wish you the best and many fun times out chasing birds. I do think this to...

RayGubernat

I like to actually SEE my dogs hunt and read their body language. That way I will know what they and the birds are doing, especially on running Pheasants so I at least have a chance on birds that have been highly educated by the 4-5 weeks of other hunters before I can get out west to hunt them. How...

RayGubernat

Mountaindogs - There is tight breeding and then there is TIGHT breeding. Honestly, with a gene pool as large as that of Labs, I would not be concerned about how tight the breeding was unless you were talking about mother/son or father /daughter or something VERY close to that. If you like what a mal...

RayGubernat

Guys - Lots of good input in the most recent posts from AAA gundogs, bustingcover and mask. Lots of food for thought for hunters who may soon be looking for their next hunting companion. Gundogguy for example, was I think, spot on with his observation about the perceived cost of field trial dogs by ...

RayGubernat

The average guy should be afraid of field trial dogs because most guys do such a poor job of training their dogs, in the field and obedience, that they're better off "hunting" with a low drive bootlicking house pet. Having an obedient dog that ranges 100 yards or more and holds point is speaking a ...

RayGubernat

Our birds flush 200 yards out when you close your gun. We hunt with some guys that have phenomenal dogs, they just don't work in this area. He praised how his dog can hold a bird and the first year here not one bird held. We drive down the road and pheasants flush up 300 yards away in a field. Spoo...

RayGubernat

This may sound strange, but woodcock so indeed smell very different from most of the rest of the gamebirds a dog will be expected to find and point. I have had adult dogs that simply did not point a woodcock...until I kicked one up myself and shot it. Once they saw that it was a bird that I was inte...

RayGubernat

Our birds flush 200 yards out when you close your gun. We hunt with some guys that have phenomenal dogs, they just don't work in this area. He praised how his dog can hold a bird and the first year here not one bird held. We drive down the road and pheasants flush up 300 yards away in a field. Spoo...

RayGubernat

I have to think about a flusher soon , because at 70 I'm down to about 100 yards :) Not to worry Sharon... you have options. Last year I bought a pup out of Ch. Erin's War Creek(Nat'l Open Shooting Dog Ch., and a few trial points shy of being last year's Purina Shooting dog of the year)... and a wi...

RayGubernat

The recent thread regarding field trial dogs got me to thinking. I would like to explore the flip side of the situation. I think the VAST majority of bird hunters, at least the ones in my neck of the woods are scared silly of field trial pointing dogs and their progeny. They seem to want a dog that ...

RayGubernat

I do heel whoa drills after the manner of Paul Long, in the yard, using a Smith Wonder lead(I actually use a pigging string). I start when the pup is about 4 mos. old. I progress to stopping and standing, and eventually to dropping the lead and walking out front, simulating a flush and throwing thin...

RayGubernat

Wild pheasants will run ..and run ..and run before they will fly .. Perhaps Your friends know more than you ? So? What if they run? Actually, that can set the stage for what will likely be one of the most awesome and memorable pieces of dog birdwork that is possible to witness. Here's the scenario:...

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