Gun Dog Forum

JKP

The breed club sets the standard and the breed club says that labs shouldn't be bred to point. So which club is that?? or which registry?? we have a half dozen registries in North America. Americans don't give a hoot about tradition...that's why you see VW Beetles with a 454 big block in the back s...

JKP

Hunting may be banned but hookers are legal....you can even window shop...take the family!!! How that makes sense I don't know...I'll let others figure that one out.

JKP

Well, after reading the standard again, http://www.akc.org/breeds/pointer/breed_standard.cfm (from 1975 which is very outdated, but gotta keep the breed unchanged:-)) Jr would probably not qualify because of his height and weight. I doubt he will be 25" tall, even though his sire was about there, ma...

JKP

Sometimes not enough attention is paid to feet...and how conformation/movement affects how the dog places its feet...this can affect how well a dog holds up. Dogs that "lift and place" (for lack of a better description) generally hold up better than dogs that drag their feet through the cover. Dogs ...

JKP

If you were to ask show folks, they would probably say that this bitch needs more angles front and rear...she is stacked a bit straight at the front. However, she is well balanced...the front and rear "fit" and that is probably more important....that both ends work well together. Desire takes care o...

JKP

GREAT discussion...would put the show ladies in the shade. Nothing to add that hasn't been said about construction and movement. However, I don't think of any bird dog being in a full extension gait for the duration of a day's hunting or a trial. What I see is a powerful, efficient gait that is easi...

JKP

Young dogs hunt alone...its not about hunting...its about repeating the behavior I want. If there are other young "hooligans" on the ground, I may put down older dogs. Beyond 3 years of age, could be anywhere from 1 to 3. For me, with younger dogs hunting is just a continuation of training.

JKP

Why don't we all head over to the Versatile Dog forum, or the DD forum, or the DK forum and start to raise silly and inane questions about the purpose and usefullness of their tests? Who said that FT is useless?? I accept that there are some very fine dogs...heck we have VC Pointers and Setters. I ...

JKP

And there we have it.....

We all are wasting our time. All we need to do is get a horse...breed dogs to run 300+ yards ahead of us and point til we can collar them off. Identifyng the best dogs at game recovery???....unnecessary!!

Looking for a nice TW...I'm tall...16H +...please.

JKP

Ok, So let's kick this dead horse one more time, for the last time. It's hard to recall what Gordon Guy's question was, but I think the thread has migrated into something else. The question now it seems is this. Should AKC/AF test retrieving skills? I would answer that if the continental breeds (cu...

JKP

Top dogs attract top hands...and the money to follow through. Not saying that these dogs aren't among the best. But, the rest don't get the attention for the most part. Its self perpetuating...in any venue.

JKP

Seems to me the one that went off into the intergalacitic void first was you my dear sir. What void...simply stated a very tenable position. Its clear that folks here shoot the birds that fall in the open...good deal :lol: I prefer not to go wading in the cattail muck or try to keep from being perf...

JKP

Have met coyote hunters in ND several of the past few years. They run mixed breed hounds on coyote, typically driving around, trying to start a coyote out of likely cover and then they'll throw three boxes on the flatbed truck open and the chase is on. They say the coyote will outrun the dogs more t...

JKP

Good word!!! Poke a little fun and folks go ballistic!! Owning a gun is a RIGHT....hunting is a privilege...taking home everything you shoot is the responsibility that goes with it, IMO. I think its safe to say we all pretty much agree with that. So let the games we play demonstrate it. If we were h...

JKP

The AF field trial tradition is that of a stylized southern hunt. In that hunt, the job of the coursing dogs is to find, point and hold game for the mounted gunners. After the gunners have dismounted, flushed and shot, the dogs are gathered up, brought back to the front and released to find more bi...

JKP

The discussion is really academic because I find serious hunters are skeptical of dogs (owners) that spend time in show rings...and die-hard show folks look at working dogs as second class specimens for the most part. There are exceptions of course.

JKP

In order to get those retrieve points, ya gotta win, not just get through the callback. And the majority of dogs have to do it weekend after weekend. How many of us walk away with 3rd with a beautiful retrieve? Maybe even a better retrieve then the dog that took home the points. I know that Fuzz......

JKP

Have you actually trained a dog to be steady? Yes....many...but steady to me it to when I tap the dog and send it to retrieve...not til I can get to the dog and collar it off. Firing a blank gun at a bird and a "fall" that never happens, is not a "broke" dog, which this comment so long as you can k...

JKP

And you know this how? From watching the groups at Westminster on TV once a year? Easy there, Kemosabe...I know it from having been in the breed for 25+ years and from talking with lots of folks that still are....and having lived in Germany for 11 years I have seen the other side of the issue. The ...

JKP

so long as you can keep him broke

What does this mean? that by retrieving you rick that an FT dog will break??

JKP

Standards on many breeds are very general in nature and there is a lot of room for variance in the actual look of the animal. There are several points to take in consideration when discussing judges and judging. Judges are people and have their own preferences. Judges are beholden to the entrants f...

JKP

will be a great trial dog if groomed to do so.

These are the operative words of the whole post..and not much is shared about that here...the "grooming" process, I mean. I have seen "lots" of trial bred dogs that were no different than my Euro mutts when they weren't "groomed".

JKP

Have you ever noticed that the hairy dogs win most of the time? Pretty simple, really....dogs with lots of coat can be "sculpted" to look better. Now a good judge sees that, especially in the movement. But, much of dog shows is the eye appeal and the outline when the dog "stacks". IMO...this is the...

JKP

I am afraid I'll have to hang it up because there just won't be any place for my puppies to go. A buddy of mine called tonight to say he decided not to breed his (very nice!!) bitch but to just go buy a pup. Several buyers had bowed out and he looked at the club website and saw 50 litters listed be...

JKP

"retrieve" in an upland trial/test scenario you will never find out anything about whether the dog is a "retriever" or not. With that kind of reasoning, we would never know if a dog is a natural pointer or not...or if a dog could hold wild birds....or if a trainer put birds in the hedgerow 500 yds ...

JKP

Amazing...1000 yd dogs are defended with the reasoning that the dog does the running so the hunter doesn't have to. But when it comes to the retrieve....if a cripple is 100 yds away, the dog doesn't need to get it.

Sounds like there just may be some retrieving issues

JKP

But it sure would be nice to see more DC, or CH MH dogs at "that" big dance! I still want my Dual Champions... but it's not the end all be all like it used to be for me. Fuzz, you have nothing left to prove and have put your dogs out there to take their knocks for years...respect is due. However, n...

JKP

I think killing birds on the course would also allow dogs to show that they are steady to the Fall as well. The bird hitting the ground offers a whole new level of stimulus to the hard charging dog.

JKP

An upland dogs job is to find birds. And they do that well. For the vast majority of situations in upland hunting the actual picking up of the bird and bringing it back to hand is nothing more than a convenience to the hunter - it has ZERO to do with the conservation of game. Sure, some folks will ...

JKP

It has always seemed odd to listen to people say the standard means nothing to them and in the same breath get totally bent out of shape about the color of the dog, the position of the tail, and many other things that have no real purpose in the field other than looks. But if someone tries to make ...

JKP

I actually wouldn't mind having one for hunting.

Let us know what you think after a few skunk encounters

JKP

Ezzy, I probably know more about dog shows than you might think...started participating over 50 years ago and decided 20 years ago there was absolutely nothing of value that can come from it...accept the hospitality hour and overpriced 8x10" glossy photos. I have finished Bullmastiffs, Border Terrie...

JKP

IF retrieves at trials were all that necessary to keep the skill set alive and vibrant in a pointing breed, then present day pointers and setters should SUCK at retrieving, because there has not been a retrieve requirement for these breeds for a hundred years. My experience is that they don't suck....

JKP

I have NO love of dog shows. Over the long haul, they have given a lot of owners "woo hoo" moments and done precious little for any breed, besides split them in factions. I think it would be much better for thebreeds if clinical eavluations were given rather than having folks believe that a CH is ev...

JKP

It's senseless to argue the field trial dog vs hunting dog because if the owner is happy with his dog that is all that really matters. Don't agree. As sportsman, we have the privilege to go hunting...but we have the responsibility to take home what we shoot. Personally, I am tired of hunting in ND ...

JKP

There are so many more things that are more important to a field trial dogs makeup then whether he retrieves or not. I am ambivalent about trials. But, retrieving is a MUST. Anyone who goes afield with a dog that will not reliably search up and bring back dead/wounded game is not hunting...they're ...

JKP

I thought both those dogs looked like their confirmation had at least stayed true to their field breed cousins.

The GSP and GWP were very good moving dogs. I would want to put my hands on the GWP...the back brushing, chalk helper and feathering has me a bit suspicious about the coat.

JKP

No title or score tells you what its like to live with or train a dog. You find out the nature and real value of a dog during the training....the titles and scores are the result of all that. Dig deeper...titles and scores should get your attention...then as Paul Harvey said, you go find out "the re...

JKP

6-8 hours/day when we are out in ND....4-6 hours when grouse hunting her in the east. Most of the day in ND is spent getting young dogs time on the ground. We will also spend mornings for an hour or two over decoys.

JKP

I suspect this has more with reformulating guidelines so that premiums can be raised. The insurance companies have taken a beating with all the natural disasters of late.

JKP

Now the real tough concept for you to understand. I am 100% behind anyone who gets out and does something with their dogs and I wish them all the best and hope their dogs please them. Where it breaks down is when the courtesy is not returned - when I am told that because I run a dog in a trial I am...

JKP

than any and all of the dogs whose owners hid behind "my dog paces himself" My dogs hunt the way I like...just like a lot of other people. We're not hiding behind anything...just enjoying ourselves. That's a tough concept for the arrogant and over competitive to understand..could be an intelligence ...

JKP

That might be the most egotistical/elitist comment I've read on here yet, and there's been some doozies over the years. I better stop posting on anything except for owning black GSP's that eat my wife's shoes as that's all I can prove success in. Meanwhile... the nutrition/health forum is really go...

JKP

She was right at least a 1/2 mile from where I was when I tried to bring her in. Luckily I knew what direction she was working and also that someone had seen her. Otherwise I had no way of knowing where she was and on top of that we didn't have permission to hunt that farm. Wasn't the GPS working??...

JKP

And I would most certainly call an increase in stamina and speed of effective work an advancement to the world of bird dogs

I would say its an improvement to the world of bird dog trialing. For the VAST majority of bird hunters, its brings no advantage.

JKP

Questions to the topic meant to promote a little understanding of the differences... 1) Is distance/range the only difference between SD and AA?? Given equal desire, application, manners and style....what separates SD from AA?? 2) Can't judges differ in their definition of what constitutes an SD or ...

JKP

Government money has helped to create more false economies and realities...the housing bubble, the education bubble, non-competitive medical costs, replication among the chronically unemployed, etc, etc, etc.

But...as we can see of late...sure helps you get elected.

JKP

I'm all for religion, morals and ethics...BUT....when I was a kid growing up in dairy farm country, there weren't anymore folks in church then there are now...and most had gray hair like now....and the Lone ranger and Bat Masterson were killing folks on the TV every night and the only good Indian wa...

JKP

This is silly. I feel like if you want a title you better be willing to beat every one. So next we'll have NASCAR rigs racing at Monte Carlo ... so they can win a title. I guess the Quarter Horse folks better pack it in...never gonna win the Derby. :lol: :lol: I like Budweiser, but I can also appre...

JKP

I have noticed that over the years, the V's, wheims, GSP, Irish setter. Etc. for good or bad, keep getting closer to that standard. And this while we admit that other breeds NEVER appear at the top AA trials in the country. WHO CARES ABOUT THE POINTER STANDARD??? I don't. Inside the 200 yards (wher...

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