Gun Dog Forum

I did not say owners and breeders are the only proponents - nice spin. In the quote, you said "people that acquired black dogs" are the ones who would like the standard changed. Twice. You also said "black dog owners and breeders seek relief". I'm not spinning, you are. Dizzy? ---------------------...

Ezzy, your view of how to get things changed and my view of how to get things changed are obviously different. If you like to sit down and make lists, and then sell only the benefits to people, then you can do that. I'd rather have open discussion, talking about the benefits and the detriments, so t...

Thats all I've been waiting for as well just ONE example of how it will improve the american GSP? Adam it's not about the American GSP it's about the German GSPS so I say to all of them MOVE TO GERMANY it's the standard there. First off, there is no "American GSP". The only breed in this discussion...

As I understand it people that acquired black dogs under the existing standard would like the standard changed. Another way to say this is that people that acquired black dogs under one set of rules now feel like those existing rules are having a negative impact and black dog owners and breeders se...

Ayres I tried to end this you just won't allow it Where did I not allow it to end? I addressed your points, that's all. If you don't want to reply, just don't. I DID NOT enter twine BlACK with SHARPNESS. In this discussion about adding black to the breed standard, you brought up sharpness. Your wor...

Adam wrote:Then excel in navhda...If a conformation title means that much to you there are plenty of UKC fun matches blacks are accepted there or you can compete for the INTL CH title.

You can't get a DC from an Int'l CH title.

Ok AYRES (did I get it right Mark)Lets put all the sharpness back in our german breed dogs & Quit trying to breed it out of them so we still have Rotts & Dobes G Shepards attacking people like some of them still do today.Yeah I know i'm going to hear it's the breeders & not the dogs & all the old B...

I find a lot of hypocrisy in thinking that a standard written decades ago is infallible or has no latitude for change. If that was the case, and a breed never changed, all of us would have dogs resembling the originators of our breed from a century plus ago. I for one, am pretty glad my dogs don't ...

Germany had Hitler do we need one like him? This is extremist, Ted, and not very tasteful. The United States also has a history of slavery and civil rights issues. You're not advocating that slavery should not have been abolished and that women shouldn't have the right to vote, are you? (Rhetorical...

That's a fairly good attempt at spin, Reech. Of course a black coat alone doesn't improve anything. What I've continually said is that ignoring a dog with superb qualities simply because it has a black coat is a detriment. And then there's the repetitive argument of "go get a German dog." The German...

IIRC, Timber Rattlers are endangered. At least they are here in Illinois. I know we have copperheads in my county, but they're usually relegated to the deeper ditches alongside roadways. The only snake that I'm really worried about around home is the cottonmouth / water moccasin. I haven't seen one ...

I'm confused. I haven't seen where the Brittany FT HOF is specifically for AKC weekend field trials. Did you just assume that, Al, or do you have some source that the rest of us haven't seen to back it up? If you've got a source, cite it so we can all see!

There's two schools of thought there, Al. You have yours, being an adversity to change. Others might say something along the lines of "If you keep doing what you've always done, you'll keep getting what you've always gotten." Some of us are looking to continually improve. And, really, in your post w...

TAK wrote:But I have got to say the GSP they have looks a bit more like a Pointer....

That tail is a little long, eh?

Woah. I leave work and don't check the board for 5 hours and there's 2 additional pages to go through! Looks like this discussion has been fruitful! :D Sorry if this one is a little long, but I'm going to try to respond to multiple posts with one reply. 1.) First, Dave, you're right. There is, in fa...

There is a website out there http://www.blackgsp.com/ . I don't find anything equivalent for any other color. Actually Greg, that's just a link to Ferronhaus Kennels, run by Ron Ferris, DVM in Indiana. He has a line of black GSPs. But there is a Black GSP Yahoo Group similar to the GSPCA Yahoo Grou...

Because the American breed standard with regard to color was latest written in the late 60's (and approved by the AKC in 1975) by referencing a German standard that was written in 1902, before blacks were bred in Germany. This was accepted because at that time very few, if any, black GSPs were in th...

Adam, I read that entire quoted post and although it does mention some anecdotal reports of tri-color in the breed past, nothing indicates that tri-color was accepted in a written standard. The difference is that black was accepted prior to and at the time of the writing of the American breed standa...

Let me ask a stupid question is there anything that says you can't take a black into a show ring.I'm not sure there is,you will just be DQed & ask to leave same if you are DQed for a bad bite or other DQ's. I'm not sure the breed judge would let a black dog into the show ring, but rather DQ it on t...

Correction: Ted owned up to making the statement. But there are still other reasons to disallow black in his opinion, so the opinion has not changed even in light of the new FC/AFC solid black shorthair.

I'll make an edit in my previous post noting that you owned up to the statement, Ted.

That's the correct link, but it looks like their site is down for some reason. Google came up with the same web link with the search term "Brittany Field Trial Hall of Fame"

Yellow, solid white and tri-colored dogs are not a part of the GSP history. You might want to check into this a little... If you can reference me something that proves yellow, solid white and tri-colored dogs were accepted colors in GSP history I'll retract that statement. Otherwise, the difference...

I just do not understand if the blacks are excepted everywhere else, WHY NOT in shows?????????????? What is the big darn deal? So are dogs with bad bites,china and wall eyes,yellow, solid white, tri-colored people are like dogs you give an Inch they'll take a mile so tell me if you think all of tho...

This discussion is good but many have the proper order out of sequence. If there is a rule or law you disagree with them work at changing it. But until you get it changed you live with the present rules and laws. In other words, I do not or will not have or use a dog that does not conform to the st...

Is this opinion or fact? One can say with impunity that any number of other people overlooked some other dog that may be a better (or worse) choice in any specific breeding. The argument you need to succeed with is, there is no existing dog of a standard color that would not be as good as or better...

What I want to know is what do black dogs bring to the table to better the breed that you can't find in a liver dog? You're never going to find a general answer to this question. You always have to look at it on a case-by-case, specific basis. Certainly Wind River's Black Magic MH (#1 Hunt Test Pro...

But in this case the organization that supports their HOF has set the rules that they voted on that would have to be met to qualify and don't think any of us has a right to try and tell them how to run their organization. Kind of like any of us trying to tell the GSPCA what color they should allow ...

I will politely disagree, if the assertion is "you are not looking at the betterment of the breed" the admonishment is that you are "required" to look at the black dogs for betterment of the breed. No, you've made an incorrect assumption. The assertion being "you are required to look to the betterm...

I don't know about that, Ezzy. Surely Buddy's primary focus was on NSTRA, but he also had a good dose of American Field in there. And his progeny should be considered as well. There are plenty of dogs out there in a HOF of some sort that didn't necessarily do the thing themselves, but produced dogs ...

Honestly I could care less if it passes or not but believe it will in time. I'm a little more pessimistic. Until then they have to play by the rules. Meaning, black GSPs can do anything and everything their liver counterparts can do, except show in AKC conformation shows. Regardless I WILL NEVER VO...

That's the spirit, Greg!

A double-posted topic has been merged into one. There may be some double-postings up to this point in the thread due to the topic merge.

Were you citing a post he made, or just simply explaining why you thought he was unethical? You can see a difference, can't you? I never once gave my opinion of you (heck, I don't know you outside this forum), I simply cited a post you had made. Do you really think there's something wrong with that ...

Thanks Mark that's exactly how I felt when he used my name,but because he is a moderator it's ok. I was admonished for using a persons name because I believed he was unethical & explained why just to have it all deleted. Ted, did you not agree with John Lunseth in the thread that I cited? It's not ...

and not looking at the history and betterment of the breed at all. Steven, Would you please expand upon what you perceive as the betterment of the breed? Please specifically address how in your mind the color black is required to improve the breed in a different and better manner than an existing s...

If it is so important to so many that black be accepted to the standard then why hasn't it passed ?? Blacks can already do everything thing else accept show.Keep putting it up for vote it will eventually pass.But how bout this DQ the LVR & WHTS & pass the Blacks.Even better when they allow GSPS to ...

Of course, a counter-argument to that is owners of black GSPs should be concerned with conformation just as much as owners of liver GSPs. Fads come and go, but a no-vote on the issue of black in the American breed standard means that owners of black GSPs will never be able to "prove" superior confor...

I use the 1700 and the 1900, neither of which makes a sound when turned on or off. Am I correct in thinking that the 2300 is a trainer/beeper combo? Is there any way to not turn the beeper on?

Looks like he didn't need much in the way of motivation to get into the water! Nice pup!

And... new topic created!

Unfortunately I had to take my previous posts and Dave's post with the new topic since they were a majority discussion on the breed standard and not so much a discussion on FC AFC Wolf Plain Brooks Sally MH.

Congrats again to Jen & Dennis Hazel!

This post is a little out of order, but I just split out this topic from the congratulatory thread here: http://www.gundogforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=69&t=23214 Here's the question: Now that there's a FC/AFC Black Shorthair, does that do anything to change the mind of the field trialers against ...

As for voting No to allow Black GSP in the show ring I happen to feel that No is not the right vote. I would be willing to discuss that subject in another forum. Ken, that issue has been discussed at length on this forum a couple of times. I didn't mean to hijack your thread, but noting that there ...

Hmm, I've been in the breed over a decade and have never once heard this argument. Never once. Well Dave, apparently you haven't read much on the black debate to have failed to hear that argument. It occurs over and over and over. Here's a prime example: A change in the standard requires 2/3rds of ...

I've never heard that, but then again I've never fed grease to my dogs. I've added in some olive oil before, but I've found that if you're feeding a good quality kibble the dog gets everything they need from it. Now if you're going for a raw food diet, maybe some of the local experts can chime in ab...

Congrats! I can't help but wonder what all the black GSP detractors are going to say now that there is a solid black GSP that has earned a FC/AFC that can easily be cited. What I remember hearing before was something to the tune of "Show us a black GSP that has earned a FC and that will go a long wa...

Delmar said no formal training until a dog is a year old. A lot of us have broken that "rule" (myself included), but I think it would be more fair to her to stay where she's got love and room to run since she's so young. You won't miss out on anything training-wise, and more importantly, she'll be m...

My wife and I left the reception at about 8:00 with a very sleepy 8mo. old son. As for the groomsmen... I hope they had designated drivers!

(I heard they all had hotel rooms nearby - very prepared

)

Hey I just looked at Sadie's pedigree, and it turns out she's not the same Sadie I was talking about. I train with Debbi @ Wind River's Kennel, and our families have been friends for several years now (as a matter of fact, I just went to her son's wedding this past weekend). The "Sadie" I was thinki...

Thanks for the suggestion. I am aware and have "styled" her over and over without success. Even when styled it's not where i would like it to be. Part of hers is confidence..she looks a little better on wild finds. At best she's 10 o'clock. She hunts WAY too close to trial anyway so other than pers...

I think with any gundog breed you're going to be able to find some dogs that won't hunt, due primarily to breeding practices and traceable to a bloodline. That's what happens when people get too focused on conformation and push performance to the back burner. And vise versa as well. As was eluded to...

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