Gun Dog Forum

crackerd

GH

--got my 14-month old debuting this week in an open stakes.

MG

crackerd

Very good insight, Justin. Just the right cautionary tone. Otherwise, GH is absolutely on the money. What the heck does "let a puppy be a puppy" mean, anyhow--is that some kind of Zen koan or what? At 8 weeks, their brains are virtually full-sized. Gundogs are little sponges, they take it in rapidly...

crackerd

Only hitch is, "two yellow Labs, 8 mos. old." That means they were of swimmable age last summer and fall--5-6 months ago. And the truism goes, The longer you keep a pup out of the water, the harder it is to get it to go into the water." A truism that's not 100 percent true, but still a good gauge. P...

crackerd

Heed GH's advice. And follow what's espoused by this book -- Retriever Puppy Training: The Right Start for Hunting -- sequentially so you're learning about your puppy and how you're to train it at the same time.

MG

crackerd

Sounds like you're wanting a parlor trick that ought to start off and stay in the parlor or the swimming pool. Many duck dogs will dive after a cripple almost naturally. Note: It's always a cripple because dead ducks don't sink. :roll: As a parlor trick, throw something that does sink and is attract...

crackerd

...still is not as happy about doing it as the lab in the in the DVD. I know it is different for every dog but when should her attitude about FF improve? basically attitude improves when the dog stops any signs of resistance and as a complete understanding of what is being asked and when what is as...

crackerd

Get off my case or I'll send you a spinone to relaunch your pro training career with (you'd like it, they're very trainable). Meanwhile, post up a photo of at least one versatile that doesn't blink birds or refuse a retrieve, your NAVHDA-bound Draht. (I know you're caving, don't deny it; got to show...

crackerd

This is in all reality, a retrieving drill. The purpose is for the dog to find a wounded duck... You (we) would like to think so. The reality is, many (most?) handlers who're testing don't want their dog getting anywhere near the duck during the search, as they're then also judged on the retrieve. ...

crackerd

Rick, first off, you did a nice job outlining the duck search for a beginning handler. Now, as to why not "fetch?"--the short answer is way back when, I was trained that the "Fetch!" command meant the dog must find something to put in its mouth, end of story. Then it became known that the duck searc...

crackerd

If that's it so far, you definitely start off with the duck search definitely wanting the dog to definitely get in the water. :lol: The command you use for sending it can be whatever you choose--so long as it differs from your release for a retrieve (typically for retrievers, the dog's name, but for...

crackerd

Well some of the trainers I work with (when I am training my lab) are "model-T trainers". Still using force to the pile and such which is continuous pressure. I do not like these methods, but they are still used. Mountaindogs, FTP is not done with continuous pressure--it's "Back!"-nick (collar)-"Ba...

crackerd

Retriever people often have a phase in the FF where the pressure is applied until the dog returns to you at heel. Pressure immediatly stops then and there is a delay before the give command is issued, so the dog does not develope a dropping habit at heel. This would eliminate the laying down at a l...

crackerd

Rick's absolutely right--unless you've got a dog "built" for dove (a Boykin, royal or common) http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v480/crackerd/Crack-Dove10904.jpg or a dog with a mouth lined with velvet. This littl'un http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v480/crackerd/GembosDoveRescue.jpg lived to fly a...

crackerd

I leave my dog in a stand. Reason being - it's really easy for a dog to sit up from a down position, or stand from a sitting position. IMO, it gives the dog 1 more action to do that the judges won't like. When we did obedience, I never had a problem with them leaving their position - sitting up fro...

crackerd

Both good answers. What you find, as you get more into waterfowling and/or retriever testing, is that dogs don't break on a shot, they break when the shot puts a bird on the ground--that is, a duck flyer. It's the motion of falling bird that draws their attention...and their disobedience. Can't say ...

crackerd

Counterbalancing all the pup photos--great shots, gdog's in particular--here's a 12-year-old doing what she's done, oh, a couple thousand times before.

MG

crackerd

Thanks for explaining. Once this thread's moved to Training, Evan Graham probably will zero in on it and advise following his retrieving material. That's a good idea, because you've now got a dog (and yourself) somewhat in quicksand with regard to retrieving. Evan's program is sequential and will ha...

crackerd

Two things first: your spelling's plenty passable and you should ask that this topic be moved to "Training." Now...some believe carrying heav(ier) objects promotes good mouth habits. The Brits do this as a rule, giving dogs weighted dummies before introducing them to game. I don't see it as help or ...

crackerd

Not a title, Winning the 1981 American Chesapeake Club licenced FT ( derby ) with a male chessy named Northwater's Stormin Baron WDX. I was breeder, owner, trainer, handler. A moment I'll never forget. No title, Howie, but you were halfway to the national Derby List with that win, quite prestigious...

crackerd

I believe you can achieve a great retriever thru FF on a dog with no natural instincts to retrieve. I do not believe there is any way of knowing on that dog if it is awaking his natural instincts or if you have a great "trained" retrieve. Its always been my understanding that is where FF got starte...

crackerd

First, interested in how you think force fetch has "hurt" the natural retrieving abilities of shorthairs, or any gundog breed. That's contradictory to another belief that FF actually instills a driven purpose in a dog. Don't buy that one, either. But here's where you may be coming from: The Brits (c...

crackerd

But as bonafides go, he worked as a gamekeeper assistant on a British estate, where he forged a de Tocquevillean philosophy that he who would know the UK knows that hunting over there is only for aristocrats. At least until his philosophy got disemboweled by the chap who wrote their book on shooting...

crackerd

If they are British off the boat, you might want to revisit your dogs' pedigrees to reflect such things as FTCh and/or FTW as are denoted abroad. Otherwise, somebody seeking a working gundog, particularly a "waterdog," might balk in going any further with you.

MG

crackerd

Sharon's right--if he's not a hunter, he may have a problem, because a Boykin, every Boykin http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v480/crackerd/0982.jpg is born one. Then again they're not mid-sized dogs, either--they're little, they retrieve big http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v480/crackerd/0988.jpg ...

crackerd

"Hoot" Gibson was well known for using a standard poodle for his Arkansas goose guiding service, and I'd imagine someone of a mind to could make an adequate-for-most-weekenders retriever out of most any dog with the physical stature for it. But when folks start talking about crosses, I'm always rem...

crackerd

Bro'--for last evening's haul, you got a goose-grabbing Sussex spaniel http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v480/crackerd/000923.jpg and the rare(ly) camera-shy NSDTR or devil dog or toller for short http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v480/crackerd/000922.jpg both aided in the flying squad's "conservati...

crackerd

Depends on the "flyers" http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v480/crackerd/LuckyInTheSkyWithDiamonds2.jpg Next door to you they're a different color and the "snowgoose conservation season" gets plenty of help http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v480/crackerd/0004.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v48...

crackerd

Yes. http://www.fetchpup.com/training/forcefetch.php

He also gives the caveat that FF may not be necessary (and he's entitled to feel that way), but he segues into conditioning the "hold" as an alternative.

MG

crackerd

Introduce it to clip-wing pigeons and eventually shackled ducks. And keep your fingers crossed. Retrievers retrieve. That's not, ordinarily, why they're force-fetched. But in this case, time nor means notwithstanding, you could make a case for conditioning the hold and then gradually (as time permit...

crackerd

All nice, but especially the ugly dogs (Drahts and WPGs). A little more "garden variety" gundogs http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v480/crackerd/00092.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v480/crackerd/00096.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v480/crackerd/08Dingo-1.jpg and " British garden vari...

crackerd

Post your question in the training forum here: http://www.retrievertraining.net/forums/ Yeah, just don't breathe a syllable about having considered, even for a nanosecond, getting a "silver" :roll: Lab... And congratulations on what you chose. MG http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v480/crackerd/0009...

crackerd

Strikes me as telling that most of the top cocker kennels are in the Midwest where upland opportunity is at its best. As for Boykins and upland, Neil Mace would be the man "locally" to ask. Boykins' big thing over the other spaniels is http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v480/crackerd/000913.jpg what ...

crackerd

You've sussed it right there. The Kennel Club (UK) nor FCI recognize the "Russian spaniel" as a breed, and unless FCI has recently relented, both have refused recognition, seeing it as a springer x cocker cross. In the UK, that's called a sprocker. Like a dropper for pointing dogs. A working mix, bu...

crackerd

Howdy, Judy--indeed you've sussed your Sussex, a lass true to her origins, making like Father Christmas-- http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v480/crackerd/08GemboOnTheGo.jpg and making her holiday rounds. When her ol' flews turn white, she'll even look the part. Best to Viv et al and rest her assured...

crackerd

One of God's rest ye merry gentlewomen after picking up the
traditional Christmas dinner ("napkin holder"--and polished
silver--included).

MG

crackerd

The Kimar gun's crap, Dave. I spun about 15 rounds through the POS before the spring broke. The warranty's not worth the pot metal or whatever alloy it's made of. I had it, by the way, while my NEF .209 was away having its hammer spot-welded for the third time after more than 15,000 rounds as a retr...

crackerd

I do have one dog that sits on whoa.... my boykin :D :D I train my flushing dogs to sit on whoa so I can use them with my pointers and not confuse things. My boykin sits on sit,whoa and hup... And looks doggone good doing it on any of 'em, if I may say so. Funny how this is analogous to the Brits n...

crackerd

Hello all! As you can see, I'm new to this site and this is my first post. I have been looking for some information on doing upland work with my Boykin Spaniel but haven't found much help on my specific question other places on the net. This looks like a great site! In looking over the old posts it...

crackerd

Big (big) mistake skimping 50 bucks on a collar for the "inexpensive, 'starter'" model. All it takes is a nickel's worth of mismanufactured/misconnected electricity and you'll have done 10 times the cost of the collar's worth in damage to a dog. Dave Quindt gave you the best deal going, followed by ...

crackerd

Interesting. I had a lab a long time ago that fit the physique of the lean, 60 pounder you described, but she was mellow and a great obedience dog. You mentioned the lab you saw muscles and rib bones. I haven't seen a lab rib in years. I regularly see labs around where I live - the vet, Petsmart, o...

crackerd

Don't you keep a spotted Chessie in your kennel for that sort of stuff? Not that Labs weren't honored that you so deemed the "spotted" one elsewhere.

MG

crackerd

In South Carolina, probably never. Several of my retriever training partners *winter* in S.C., as do some pros. I'm further up the coast, and the water's too cold for a Boykin only when it gets beyond skim ice.

MG

crackerd

Personally when you start getting more than 2 dogs, keeping them all in the house becomes borderline impossible. In my personal experience and opinion, an good pointing upland dog does best when kept outside kenneled. I have 11 in the house (only 8 are bird dogs, 9 if you count boykins as bird dogs...

crackerd

I've seen a dog that would work birds like no other. One cold morning we let him ride in the front seat of the truck, busted birds for the first 30 minutes in the field. That got me curious so I tried it both ways. Kennel in the back, deadly on birds. Ride in the truck, bust birds for the first 30 ...

crackerd

It seems to me any dog should be able to compete in any venue and if they canpass then they should have the title. Seems a little strange to me thata dog has to be declared a certain type before they can compete. That's both utopian and untenable at the same time. You could have a teckel at Ames--o...

crackerd

Believe 'Dales could compete in HRC for a while now. Also can run NAHRA tests though not for titles. Glad the breed's getting another venue but got to put a pall over the parade as regards AKC. Airedales are not spaniels. They flush game, but so do Labs, Irish Water Spaniels and any other gundog bre...

crackerd

Scott, the reason the duck search is a bugaboo is too many handlers overthink themselves on how to go about it. "Trust your dog" will suffice if the dog's been brought along properly for the search. *You* should not lob ducks--if a duck (live preferably) is tossed from shore, it should be done by so...

crackerd

The key is not patience, it's progress through repetition. GH (who ought to be designated the official trainer for this forum, breed or discipline irregardless) is essentially advising not to try and reinvent the wheel. Retriever training is orderly (sequential), compartmentalized and completely pac...

crackerd

"Strictly the English type Lab" tells nothing--"English type Labs," performance Labs, are indistinguishable in appearance from "American type Labs," performance Labs. I run both--in field trials. They're dead ringers and their go is the same. Labs aren't "natural" quartering dogs, either--that's not...

crackerd

...while I've taught him the 'hold' command, he has not been force-fetched. He's got a nice natural retrieve - by any AKC field trial or hunt test standard, his retrieve is very good. From what I've observed, however, NAVHDA judges are a little pickier about the retrieve, so I'd probably say it's p...

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