Search found 305 matches

by whoadog
Mon Dec 30, 2013 10:15 am
Forum: Training
Topic: Where to start?
Replies: 8
Views: 2794

Re: Where to start?

My suggestion is the same as always, read all you can and familiarize yourself specifically with information on how dogs learn . If you clearly understanding how to teach your dog you can be successful with most of the published material on gun dog training. You might also search out a local trainin...
by whoadog
Mon Dec 30, 2013 10:03 am
Forum: Training
Topic: 8 Month Old - Potty Issue
Replies: 15
Views: 5198

Re: 8 Month Old - Potty Issue

How is he doing?
by whoadog
Fri Dec 27, 2013 8:10 pm
Forum: Training
Topic: 8 Month Old - Potty Issue
Replies: 15
Views: 5198

Re: 8 Month Old - Potty Issue

Do you catch him in the act or find it later?
by whoadog
Fri Dec 27, 2013 6:17 pm
Forum: Training
Topic: Puppy Wont Point
Replies: 67
Views: 18199

Re: Puppy Wont Point

Im sorry whoadog, but you are not simply using the wing as a crutch for whoa training in the scenario described. You are using whoa to teach a dog to stand game. (whoadog heaves a heavy sigh) No, I'm not. Pavlov's dogs. Classic Conditioning. I use the wing to illicit an unconditioned response in th...
by whoadog
Fri Dec 27, 2013 5:52 pm
Forum: Training
Topic: 8 Month Old - Potty Issue
Replies: 15
Views: 5198

Re: 8 Month Old - Potty Issue

As others have said, vet visit comes first. Am I correct in assuming we are talking about an intact male here? If there is no infection, the pup is becoming sexually mature at 8 months. Sometimes this can lead to marking in the house....besides the crate, is he peeing any place in particular? Is it ...
by whoadog
Fri Dec 20, 2013 8:30 pm
Forum: Training
Topic: Puppy Wont Point
Replies: 67
Views: 18199

Re: Puppy Wont Point

But if I read it right, you are taking peoples money to teach pointing dog pups to point No, the pointing is bred in. I take people's money to train basic commands at a very early age in a puppy. But, what would it matter if I was? I am not taking any style out of the dog,. They use their nose to p...
by whoadog
Fri Dec 20, 2013 1:28 pm
Forum: Training
Topic: SportDOG
Replies: 17
Views: 13016

Re: SportDOG

I've had personal experiences with two, both lower end models purchased by family members. Both had battery problems and were exchanged within three months for more expensive collars from other brands. But, I have no experience with or opinion of the tek. As for customer service, both collars were a...
by whoadog
Fri Dec 20, 2013 1:23 pm
Forum: Training
Topic: Why do you Force Fetch?
Replies: 32
Views: 12835

Re: Why do you Force Fetch?

T But perhaps we can get together sometime and do a bit of training? That would be interesting! I moved away from retrievers years ago although I do have a Lab I rescued from the needle in my kennel. I just might show up at a seminar sometime, but I'll pay my money just like everyone else to watch y...
by whoadog
Fri Dec 20, 2013 1:18 pm
Forum: Training
Topic: Puppy Wont Point
Replies: 67
Views: 18199

Re: Puppy Wont Point

My 4x NSTRA CH would never give the wing on a string a look I've had dogs that wouldn't give the wing a look either. For those I use training methods that are more mainstream. Not chasing a wing on the end of a flyrod indicates absolutely nothing about the potential of a puppy. I also find quite of...
by whoadog
Fri Dec 20, 2013 1:09 pm
Forum: Training
Topic: Puppy Wont Point
Replies: 67
Views: 18199

Re: Puppy Wont Point

So why do you bother buying a "pointing" dog? I think this question indicates that I have still not made it clear what my training goals are when i use the wing. They are not to "teach" the dog to point. Pointing is an innate behavior that nearly all dogs exhibit, the pause before the strike. A beh...
by whoadog
Fri Dec 20, 2013 1:14 am
Forum: Training
Topic: Puppy Wont Point
Replies: 67
Views: 18199

Re: Puppy Wont Point

Once my dogs are broke i do not ever want to have to say whoa again Yes. Agreed. Truly finished dogs require little if any direction in the field. "Whoa" is a means to an end, not the end. slistoe wrote: Whoa is a command for a dog to stop and stand still till told to do something else. It's only r...
by whoadog
Thu Dec 19, 2013 8:38 pm
Forum: Training
Topic: Who doesn't use an e-collar?
Replies: 47
Views: 20304

Re: Who doesn't use an e-collar?

I don't use a collar in the initial phase of my training program and, with some dogs find it unnecessary. I do, however, condition every dog I train because it is such a wonderful tool for extending control. My philosophy is start young and make them think what you want is what they want. To this da...
by whoadog
Thu Dec 19, 2013 8:17 pm
Forum: Training
Topic: Some one who can explain it better than I can....
Replies: 30
Views: 10049

Re: Some one who can explain it better than I can....

This thread has been a hoot! Thanks to all who contributed. But, after reading, I am going to do my best to stay directly on task when I post on a thread. Amazing how these threads take on a life of their own. :P
by whoadog
Thu Dec 19, 2013 8:09 pm
Forum: Training
Topic: Why do you Force Fetch?
Replies: 32
Views: 12835

Re: Why do you Force Fetch?

Evan,
I just looked at your profile and realized you are nearly a neighbor. Next time some one asks for ff I'll send them your way if that's ok with you.
by whoadog
Thu Dec 19, 2013 8:05 pm
Forum: Training
Topic: Puppy Wont Point
Replies: 67
Views: 18199

Re: Puppy Wont Point

Whoa is a command for a dog to stop and stand still till told to do something else. It's only real function specifically applied to pointing dogs is if you want the dog to have reliable manners after the flight of the bird. If you are not trying to teach manners after the flush it has no purpose. M...
by whoadog
Thu Dec 19, 2013 2:49 pm
Forum: Training
Topic: Puppy Wont Point
Replies: 67
Views: 18199

Re: Puppy Wont Point

For your hypothetical situation i would handle it differently, i would let the dog not standing the bird continue working and see what happens next. 1. Does the working dog establish point with out bumping the bird? 2. Does the working dog bump the bird and stop to flush while the standing dog stay...
by whoadog
Wed Dec 18, 2013 10:14 pm
Forum: Training
Topic: Puppy Wont Point
Replies: 67
Views: 18199

Re: Puppy Wont Point

I never mentioned the word whoa now did i No, what you said was: And why would anyone care about a pointing dog standing in a field in random places that the handler chooses ? We may be mincing words here, but, my concept of whoa is the dog is provided with a stimuli and from that stimuli he unders...
by whoadog
Wed Dec 18, 2013 4:51 pm
Forum: Training
Topic: Why do you Force Fetch?
Replies: 32
Views: 12835

Re: Why do you Force Fetch?

And that is an example of my point. Having established a trained baseline for a performance standard from the beginning, those problems would not exist. I thoroughly agree with you here. Too often I gets dogs with established patterns of bad behavior. Why didn't you just say that in the first place...
by whoadog
Wed Dec 18, 2013 4:34 pm
Forum: Training
Topic: Some one who can explain it better than I can....
Replies: 30
Views: 10049

Re: Some one who can explain it better than I can....

:P :P :P Not what I was expecting but infinitely more entertaining. I've been feeling a bit crotchety lately when I've visited this site. I may keep coming back after all.
by whoadog
Wed Dec 18, 2013 4:23 pm
Forum: Training
Topic: Puppy Wont Point
Replies: 67
Views: 18199

Re: Puppy Wont Point

By the way Wisco, sorry for hijacking your thread. I guess I'm getting crankier as I approach my "senior" status and am less willing to stand shamefully in the shadows in more. Good luck with your dog no matter how you choose to train. There is nothing better in the world than to get invites to exce...
by whoadog
Wed Dec 18, 2013 4:21 pm
Forum: Training
Topic: Puppy Wont Point
Replies: 67
Views: 18199

Re: Puppy Wont Point

I do believe you have multiple NAVHDA chapters in your area.... but IMO nothing beats hands on help from a mentor. This is excellent advice and congruent to what try to say with new dog trainers. Learn how your dog learns, understand what you are doing and why you are doing it. If you can reach tha...
by whoadog
Wed Dec 18, 2013 3:21 am
Forum: Training
Topic: Puppy Wont Point
Replies: 67
Views: 18199

Re: Puppy Wont Point

The wing on a string is nothing but entertainment for people it serves no real purpose It is also great entertainment for the dog which can be used just as effectively as food rewards. If you can't achieve results using the method it may be that you have never seen it done effectively. How do dogs ...
by whoadog
Wed Dec 18, 2013 2:41 am
Forum: Training
Topic: Some one who can explain it better than I can....
Replies: 30
Views: 10049

Some one who can explain it better than I can....

So often on this site, I see posts about whether or not e-collars are used by those of us visiting the site. It makes me think that a good post on the fundamentals of effective e-collar use might be a good thing. I realize that when I try to explain something I often see it clearly in my own mind bu...
by whoadog
Tue Dec 17, 2013 8:41 pm
Forum: Training
Topic: Why do you Force Fetch?
Replies: 32
Views: 12835

Re: Why do you Force Fetch?

Yes I do have a website. However, I have been discouraged from posting it on this forum in the past and will respect the moderator's request on that matter. However, I will update my profile so you can find it if you are interested.
by whoadog
Tue Dec 17, 2013 1:59 pm
Forum: Training
Topic: Why do you Force Fetch?
Replies: 32
Views: 12835

Re: Why do you Force Fetch?

Force fetch has long been a special area of expertise in my work, and I've used that skill and experience to advance the process. For trainers who use force fetch I'm interested in helping them to better understand it and its components and purposes. I understand. But, you cherry-picked pieces of m...
by whoadog
Tue Dec 17, 2013 12:58 pm
Forum: Training
Topic: Puppy Wont Point
Replies: 67
Views: 18199

Re: Puppy Wont Point

Would you like to borrow my "training with mo" book? LOL, clever! Sight pointing is created by bad training habits and very poor timing. I do use whoa in the breaking process but never to stop a dog on the bird, only after the bird is flushed and the dog moves. lot's of different things will work b...
by whoadog
Mon Dec 16, 2013 11:34 pm
Forum: Training
Topic: Puppy Wont Point
Replies: 67
Views: 18199

Re: Puppy Wont Point

Well I fear we may be caught up in what whoa means but if you mean the word or any verbal command for whoa you wouldn't need me to show it...Mo, Jonesy, Higgins et al never utter the word. They are better than I and published already. I am speaking more about the concept than the actual command. A ...
by whoadog
Mon Dec 16, 2013 7:58 pm
Forum: Training
Topic: Puppy Wont Point
Replies: 67
Views: 18199

Re: Puppy Wont Point

Chukar12 wrote:If I have to "teach" or verbally command (whoa) a pointing dog to point...
Me too, but I have no problem at all with teaching "whoa" to produce a broke dog. In fact, if you can do it without I'd pay big money to learn it from you.
by whoadog
Mon Dec 16, 2013 4:58 pm
Forum: Training
Topic: Why do you Force Fetch?
Replies: 32
Views: 12835

Re: Why do you Force Fetch?

4. If FF is attempted with so-called "positive-only" (clicker-type) methods the trainer is only kidding himself. Force fetch requires force in order to achieve its core benefits. But remember, the word "force" does not imply an amount. I didn't say that I did not force the dog, only that I adapted ...
by whoadog
Mon Dec 16, 2013 4:21 pm
Forum: Training
Topic: Puppy Wont Point
Replies: 67
Views: 18199

Re: Puppy Wont Point

Del Lolo wrote:Wing on a string is almost totally BS. get that dog on some real birds that it can't catch and that will fly away.
No, it's not. I have more than a few references if you would like to call them.
by whoadog
Mon Dec 16, 2013 4:19 pm
Forum: Training
Topic: Puppy Wont Point
Replies: 67
Views: 18199

Re: Puppy Wont Point

Whoadog point is that a pup that is continually set up for sight pointing eventually will not be happy with just pointing on scent. Is this your experience talking or someone else's? My experience is that some dogs will "keep roading", I call it creeping, and some will not. A good solid foundation ...
by whoadog
Sat Dec 14, 2013 9:06 pm
Forum: Training
Topic: Who doesn't use an e-collar?
Replies: 47
Views: 20304

Re: Who doesn't use an e-collar?

I do not "train with" an ecollar although I hang one every pup's neck that comes through the kennel from the very first session. I guess I am old school and my training program is done mostly in the yard utilizing leads and checkcords as well as other tools besides the collar. I actually use an old ...
by whoadog
Sat Dec 14, 2013 8:43 pm
Forum: Training
Topic: Why do you Force Fetch?
Replies: 32
Views: 12835

Re: Why do you Force Fetch?

1. Do you force fetch? Only when I find it absolutely necessary, I'm a pointing dog guy 2. Why do you force fetch? The most common reason is hardmouth. 3. What do you hope to gain from force fetching? A dog that will retrieve game in a manner fit for human consumption. 4. How do you go about it? I u...
by whoadog
Sat Dec 14, 2013 8:30 pm
Forum: Training
Topic: Puppy Wont Point
Replies: 67
Views: 18199

Re: Puppy Wont Point

What are you teaching with wing on a string? What I do with the wing is mostly a "play reward" for doing what I am asking the dog to do. For instance, I stop the chase game and give a recall command. The game does not start again until the pup lets me touch it. I work up to solid recall and not lea...
by whoadog
Fri Dec 13, 2013 9:20 pm
Forum: Training
Topic: Puppy Wont Point
Replies: 67
Views: 18199

Re: Puppy Wont Point

If I were you I would stop the "wing on a string". If it serves a purpose other than an amusement for the puppy owner, it is past the stage of being helpful At the risk of being ostrascized, censured, and outright shouted down, I respectfully disagree. The proper equipment used effectively can brin...
by whoadog
Mon Dec 09, 2013 9:30 pm
Forum: Training
Topic: SHOOTING UNPOINTED BIRDS
Replies: 89
Views: 31328

Re: SHOOTING UNPOINTED BIRDS

Sorry for being late to the party but here's my contribution. Richard Wolters' on page 140 of Gundog is another that also said "no whoa, no bird". Given the strong feelings that resonate in the training community towards Wolters to this day that may or may not seem like a good source. Just out of c...
by whoadog
Sat Dec 07, 2013 12:01 am
Forum: Training
Topic: chewer
Replies: 13
Views: 4289

Re: chewer

3 years old and just started chewing?? That's a bit unusual. Have you looked at his teeth? It's possible he could have some gum disease started and is looking for relief.
by whoadog
Fri Dec 06, 2013 11:57 pm
Forum: Training
Topic: need help training
Replies: 6
Views: 2146

Re: need help training

On e-collars: It is vital that you understand the proper application of an e-collar before you strap it on your dog and start zapping away. It is a tool that can greatly increase training efficacy. But, indiscriminate and thoughtless stimulation is a great way to ruin a dog. Always remember that the...
by whoadog
Wed Dec 04, 2013 1:56 am
Forum: Training
Topic: Hawking With Gundogs
Replies: 9
Views: 4588

Re: Hawking With Gundogs

And yes, the dog and hawk quickly learn to work together with no help from me. I'm just a perch to hunt from. The hawk learns to follow and read the dog. She knows when the dog gets birdy and can even tell if the dog has ground scent or air scent. Just out of curiosity, do you suppose wild raptors ...
by whoadog
Wed Nov 20, 2013 2:53 am
Forum: Training
Topic: Too Noisy for hunting
Replies: 17
Views: 6016

Re: Too Noisy for hunting

Pace on pheasant hunting, IMHO, is based on several things, the number of hunters, the number of dogs, and the willingness of the birds to sit tight. I started hunting with a group of guys about 5 years ago that are track stars in a pheasant field. The hunts I've been on with them have been the best...
by whoadog
Wed Nov 20, 2013 2:32 am
Forum: Training
Topic: DD owners or tracking breeds question for you guys
Replies: 8
Views: 2372

Re: DD owners or tracking breeds question for you guys

You are probably talking about crippled birds but, my dad was a night-hunter and ran hounds for 70+ years. Tracking in hounds is like pointing in certain breeds of bird dogs. It's more or less bred in and all a trainer really does is help the dog to polish that trait. What Dad always did was teach t...
by whoadog
Sun Nov 03, 2013 5:53 pm
Forum: Training
Topic: trouble with a gsp
Replies: 27
Views: 33513

Re: trouble with a gsp

I personaly think the huntem up command is hooey,when you turn the dog loose he should hunt with out any command I use "ok" for a release command but some people I know use "hunt em up". I agree encouraging a dog to hunt is hooey. But, a release command is not nor is a command used to tell the dog ...
by whoadog
Tue Oct 29, 2013 11:56 am
Forum: Training
Topic: A Question about gun proofing.
Replies: 3
Views: 1412

Re: A Question about gun proofing.

One of a retriever trainers best friends is a .22 cal retriever trainer. Problem solved. +1 Once a dog has been properly introduced to gunfire, I have never had a problem with returning to the level the dog was trained to even after a long break. The only time I can ever remember a problem was with...
by whoadog
Mon Oct 14, 2013 8:54 pm
Forum: Training
Topic: SHOOTING UNPOINTED BIRDS
Replies: 89
Views: 31328

Re: SHOOTING UNPOINTED BIRDS

Sorry for being late to the party but here's my contribution. Richard Wolters' on page 140 of Gundog is another that also said "no whoa, no bird". Given the strong feelings that resonate in the training community towards Wolters to this day that may or may not seem like a good source. Just out of cu...
by whoadog
Sun Oct 06, 2013 7:28 pm
Forum: Training
Topic: Steady to wsf without whoa
Replies: 22
Views: 8746

Re: Steady to wsf without whoa

If you have trained him to associate the word "whoa" with sitting, why don't you just use a different word. My guess is though you may have a different issue going on.
As an aside, what kind of dog are we talking about.
by whoadog
Mon Sep 30, 2013 8:39 pm
Forum: Training
Topic: training question
Replies: 19
Views: 5444

Re: training question

It really is that simple. If you can't shoot unpointed birds the dog is not properly trained. I absolutely agree with this statement and also with your "train every day" statement. I think where we differ is in training styles and maybe not even very much there. These days I do so much yard work th...
by whoadog
Mon Sep 30, 2013 8:25 pm
Forum: Training
Topic: Is my dog a dud.. or just a different style?
Replies: 50
Views: 35381

Re: Is my dog a dud.. or just a different style?

QuailHollow wrote:I trashed it months ago. People thought I was trying to sell pups, so I deleted it and removed the link.
That was me. It was actually said tongue in cheek. I apologize if you were offended. Congrats on the progress.
by whoadog
Fri Sep 27, 2013 10:23 pm
Forum: Training
Topic: Dog is gun shy, very badly
Replies: 11
Views: 3801

Re: Dog is gun shy, very badly

Some people may disagree with this but I honestly believe there is a genetic component to being gun shy. I will also say there could be environmental factors that may contribute as well and I do a proper introduction to gunfire with all pups at my kennel If not genetic, then at least influenced by ...
by whoadog
Fri Sep 27, 2013 10:20 pm
Forum: Training
Topic: training question
Replies: 19
Views: 5444

Re: training question

[What happens when you miss? What do they learn then? I don't miss! :P I actually set up launchers with birds that can fly until I start to see the dog start to break down and point. Then I load them with wing clipped birds once I am certain I can get a staunch point. That way even when I miss, I d...
by whoadog
Fri Sep 27, 2013 7:07 pm
Forum: Training
Topic: Best E-Collar for the buck
Replies: 15
Views: 5772

Re: Best E-Collar for the buck

If price is a concern, you can sometimes find a really good collar for a very reasonable price on ebay. My latest collar is a two dog dt system that appears to have only had one of the collars used on a dog. I gave the same price two years ago for what it would have cost me to replace the transmitte...