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Hard hoof

Hard hoof

Postby daniel77 » Mon May 10, 2010 8:47 pm

Not trying to be insensitive, as I know folks in TN would kill to have my current problem, but we are in a pretty fair drought in South La. I have the farrier do all my outside horses, but my personal horses, and my niece's pony, along with our family friend/veterinarian's gelding, I trim myself. I think it's good for everyone to trim a few, and I'm certainly not great at it. :mrgreen: Part of that character building stuff and learning what the farrier does from his POV.
Being a part time hoof jockey, I also don't have awesome equipment, but this last time (Sat), I had to re-sharpen my hoof knife after every horse, with the exception of the ponies. Man-o-man were those hooves hard. It was like trying to cut concrete. And their frogs were terrible. I usually don't trim the frogs all that much, but I whacked a fair bit off of them this time. The old TB gelding, who has terrible feet, had several abscesses also. These horses stay out all the time BTW, and Hoof flex and such ain't gonna happen, for dang sure at my Sister in Law's barn.

Venting over, thanks all. Farriers feel free to rip me a new one. :twisted:
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Re: Hard hoof

Postby Casper » Mon May 10, 2010 10:30 pm

I have the farrier do all my outside horses

You keep horses in your house? Must be a big house :P
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Re: Hard hoof

Postby BigShooter » Tue May 11, 2010 3:28 am

Casper,

You live in a barn, loafing shed or what? :P
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Re: Hard hoof

Postby daniel77 » Tue May 11, 2010 6:35 am

Casper wrote:
I have the farrier do all my outside horses

You keep horses in your house? Must be a big house :P

I have the farrier do all my customer's horses.

Better?
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Re: Hard hoof

Postby Anaconda Pintler » Tue Jun 22, 2010 11:51 am

There is a reason they are hard!!!!
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Re: Hard hoof

Postby Ruffshooter » Wed Jun 23, 2010 3:33 pm

Okay, I will bite: How What is the reason? I know nothing about horse care yet.
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Re: Hard hoof

Postby tn red » Wed Jun 23, 2010 7:47 pm

Ruffshooter wrote:Okay, I will bite: How What is the reason? I know nothing about horse care yet.

Its just lack of moisture Ruff.Some hoof dressing like hooflex or pine tar or my favorite good ol mud will take care of it.With this heat i've noticed some of the hoofs getting soft from standing in th pond all the time :roll: .I would just keep it wet around waterer if possible .
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Re: Hard hoof

Postby Anaconda Pintler » Thu Jun 24, 2010 8:24 pm

BLAH I hate feet that are standing in water and mud! The "ol" let your water tank overflow mentality drives us full time farriers nuts! The reason those feet are hard is cuz so is the ground now what good is a soft footed wet spongy foot on hard dry ground? And vice Versa what good is a hard dry foot soft damp footing? These horses are designed to both absorb and expell moisture depending on the need why would anyone want to go and mess with a good thing that has allowed them to survive all these years? As far as hoof dressings go KEEP THEM OFF MY FEET, think what you want but shoe about ten horses a day for the past twenty years and honestly tell me they work, phooey, junk and a waste of money? Tell you the secret to good sound and healthy feet: it starts with a good broad spectrum diet and proper hoof balance, period that is all the horse needs. Someone mentioned abscesses well just let them hard footed horses stand around in bacteria filled mud and see if that wont tear a good foot apart! Agree or not I am just "venting" as well but base it off years of experience!
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Re: Hard hoof

Postby daniel77 » Thu Jun 24, 2010 9:32 pm

Anaconda Pintler wrote:BLAH I hate feet that are standing in water and mud! The "ol" let your water tank overflow mentality drives us full time farriers nuts!Well that's too bad, cause we all know that keeping the farrier happy is the "real" point of owning horses. :roll: The reason those feet are hard is cuz so is the ground now what good is a soft footed wet spongy foot on hard dry ground? And vice Versa what good is a hard dry foot soft damp footing? These horses are designed to both absorb and expell moisture depending on the need why would anyone want to go and mess with a good thing that has allowed them to survive all these years? I generally agree with all of that, but hooves don't do well in either extreme, which is what I was dealing with when I wrote my lil rant. I'm sure you know that. And hooves definitely crack much worse when they get dry and brittle, which is also part of the problem I was dealing with. As far as hoof dressings go KEEP THEM OFF MY FEET, think what you want but shoe about ten horses a day for the past twenty years and honestly tell me they work, phooey, junk and a waste of money? I generally agree that many of the "supplements" and such out there are junk, but some of them work well and have their place.Tell you the secret to good sound and healthy feet: it starts with a good broad spectrum diet and proper hoof balance, period that is all the horse needs.I agree that this is what "most" horses need, but a fair bit "need" more than that to stay sound and useable. If I'm wrong, let me go through your gear and see if there is a horse shoe in your trailer? How about a specialty shoe? Of course some need more than good food and proper trimming. Someone mentioned abscesses well just let them hard footed horses stand around in bacteria filled mud and see if that wont tear a good foot apart!I mentioned the abscesses, which, in MY twenty years of experience occur when things get either very dry, or very wet, and if you bothered to READ what I wrote, I specifically stated that those horses didn't have an overflowing water trough, or any hoof conditioners, so according to your plan, their hooves were matched to the current soil condition (cracked and dry) so all is perfectly fine? Agree or not I am just "venting" as well but base it off years of experience!


Luckily, that old TB gelding is too numb and dumb to know that he should have been stone cold lame, but from my experience, I'd rather have hooves a little too damp than too dry. I can help dry. Can't do much about too wet.

I asked for it, I guess, but you dang sure are painting with a broad brush, and are assuming that nobody else knows anything about a horse. I've seen more horses have lameness problems due to improper farrier work than any other reason. Some top professionals in the horse lameness world agree with me on that point, I know for sure. I've also seen a bunch of farriers that didn't have enough horsemanship to fill a thimble, whopping a colt with a rasp for moving and such. I've told a few to get the heck off the place and don't come back, but you don't see me making the assumption that all farriers are clueless. You may be one of the great ones, but that post sure didn't share any genius with the guy who was asking for a simple answer to your incomplete earlier post.

Great farriers are like governors. There's about one in each state. Many of us have years of experience as equine professionals, and I thank you for taking the time to share yours. It is also noteworthy that just because you do something for a living doesn't mean you are any good at it. I know vets that I wouldn't let give my horse a shot, and trainers that I wouldn't let lead my horse and tie 'em up. Did you ever think that HALF of all doctors graduated in the LOWER 50% of their medical school class?

I guess I'm just a bit taken aback at the ill manners used by many in these forums. I highly doubt you'd have copped the same attitude if we were all hangin out at the barn, and I'd have made the same statements. If I've mistaken the tone that you were intending, I apologize.

FWIW, my current farrier is pretty good. He's a country boy about my age, who didn't go to a six week course, but rather apprenticed for three years under one of the most well respected farriers in our area. He takes his time and has a common sense approach, which I certainly prefer to the guys who have some off the wall fix for every little thing. I personally like his style of shoeing A LOT more than his former teacher's. He's also the son of a horse trainer, so I don't have to worry about him scaring the heck out of my colts due to lack of being able to read a horse, and that is what is most important to me. All those horses that are hard to shoe/trim are made, not born. He's also taken a bit of his time to watch me trim my own, and give me some pointers. That is what a farrier should be like. IMO My venting over.
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Re: Hard hoof

Postby Anaconda Pintler » Fri Jun 25, 2010 5:31 am

So it looks like you generally agree with about everything you quoted of my rant! Good cuz we all know that keeping the horse owner happy and not the horse sound is the most important thing!! :wink:
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Re: Hard hoof

Postby daniel77 » Fri Jun 25, 2010 7:47 am

Anaconda Pintler,

Are you really saying that there is no downside to a very dry and hard/brittle hoof? Really? So major splits and cracks are OK in your book? Especially for an old TB with hoof walls about as thick as a dime?

I hope for your customers' sakes that you are more knowledgeable in person than in print.

Thanks for being so helpful and sharing how much you haven't learned in twenty years bent over under a horse. :roll:

I'd have appreciated a tip or some insight as to something that could be done, but I guess that was too much to expect. Oh well, it's raining about every afternoon now, so this won't be a problem again anytime soon.
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Re: Hard hoof

Postby RayGubernat » Fri Jun 25, 2010 8:36 am

Daniel77 -

I am in between farrier vists a the moment, but like you I was having trouble licking up my horses' hooves due to the extremely dry conditions.

A couple of afternoon thundershowers softened everything up so that last evening I was able to take a knife and smooth out the underside of the hoof and rasp the hoof flat and square. Like you, I am fortunate to have a pretty good farrier. He has taken the time to show me how to do some stuff with my horses to keep their feet sound.

I explained what I do with my horses and asked what I should do if one of the horses threw a shoe at a trial and there was no farrier available. He had had me remove a shoe, under his supervision, clean up the foot, level it with a rasp and put on a shoe on a couple different occasions, when he had some extra time, on each horse, until he was sure I knew what I was doing. He then gave me a new set of shoes for each horse and also straightened a lightly used set off each horse and told me to keep them as well. He shows me what he is doing and explains how each of my horse's hooves grow out and how he has to work on them, so I can work with him and not against him.

I think I'll keep him.

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Re: Hard hoof

Postby Anaconda Pintler » Fri Jun 25, 2010 10:58 am

daniel77 wrote:
Venting over, thanks all. Farriers feel free to rip me a new one. :twisted:




So I guess you really didnt mean this? Or was it just an invite so you can wage a personal attack on someone who may have a slightly diferent opinion than you? As far as I am concerned I am very happy for both you and Ray for having Farriers you like and trust, that is awesome but shoeing roughly 50 horses a week I feel like I have some happy customers as well! Who knows maybe I am not an idiot you are trying to make me out to be, after all I was good enough to shoe for the USET and two of the Olympic games! :wink:
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Re: Hard hoof

Postby daniel77 » Fri Jun 25, 2010 11:35 am

Twas a bit of sarcasm. Definitely not an invitation for an internet war.

You may well be a very good farrier with a full book of satisfied customers. That doesn't mean that you didn't come off as a jerk insinuating that the rest of us are clueless. Delivery counts for a lot. So, let's start over.

Seriously and politely, what would your advice be for pasture horses with extremely hard/brittle feet that are cracking and splitting and trim like concrete? I was planning on trimming them twice as often (3 week intervals) so that the damage wouldn't be soooo bad between trimmings. How about feet that are too wet? Abscesses? BTW, I'm not kidding or trying to provoke you at all. I'd like to know your take on those issues. I wouldn't, however, like to hear how dumb people with those problems are.

Thanks in advance,

Daniel
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Re: Hard hoof

Postby RayGubernat » Fri Jun 25, 2010 12:45 pm

AP -

I also was not putting anyone down. Just relating my positive experience with a gent whom I believe is a prety good farrier.

I do appreciate any insights that pros may care to share. That is one of the ways I learn to be a better horse owner.

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