Your thoughts on debt.

[Thinking]

Ther reality is, short of winning the lottery, not having to work is merely a fantasy, however there are lots of jobs out there that pay decently and avoid the 9-5 rat race if you look for them. For what it's worth, when I went to paramedic school most folks in my class already had some form of undergrad, and they, like you and me, didn't find the appeal of 9-5. I like 12 hour shifts, and in my line of work that's what we do, I work 7 days and 7 night shifts a month, giving me lots of time off to do the things I like and to raise my family. I realize that you would be further invreasing your debt load a little, but it isn't a huge outlay relative to what you've already spent, the quality of life can't be beat (in fact I'm working right now), and it's without a doubt one of the most satisfying careers out there.

[phoneman45]

just flabbergasted by the need to take out students loans? I didnt have an extra 40k lying around I wasnt using. The student loan organization helps those of us who work hard to make a living pay for school. There is nothing wrong with the concept, the only problem is if you decide to default. That affects the rest of us. Stoneface began this thread seeking a little friendly advice about his future, I have a feeling he got more than he bargained for. Anyone want to talk gundogs instead of Dave Ramsey and debt?

phoneman

[Greg Jennings]

OK, take this for what it's worth. It's what my grandfather beat into me. I didn't understand till later in life, but once I did, they have served me wll.

Grandfather's Five Rules of Financial Independence

1. Pay yourself first.
2. Don't buy what you can't pay for.
3. Don't turn away free money.
4. Think very hard before you pay someone to do something that you can do yourself.
5. Don't invest in anything that you don't understand

[ultracarry]

I think we were taught the same thing Greg.

[Cajun Casey]

OK, take this for what it's worth. It's what my grandfather beat into me. I didn't understand till later in life, but once I did, they have served me wll.

Grandfather's Five Rules of Financial Independence

1. Pay yourself first.
2. Don't buy what you can't pay for.
3. Don't turn away free money.
4. Think very hard before you pay someone to do something that you can do yourself.
5. Don't invest in anything that you don't understand

And never play cards with a man named Doc.

[Stoneface]

OK, take this for what it's worth. It's what my grandfather beat into me. I didn't understand till later in life, but once I did, they have served me wll.

Grandfather's Five Rules of Financial Independence

1. Pay yourself first.
2. Don't buy what you can't pay for.
3. Don't turn away free money.
4. Think very hard before you pay someone to do something that you can do yourself.
5. Don't invest in anything that you don't understand

Your grandad sounds like Warren Buffett. I've done some studying on him and they have the same basic principles.

I was taught, too, but it was just a little different. Goes something like this:

1. Buy on credit to build a credit score
2. It's better to spend a little more for the better product
3. The System is designed to suppress the poor man and the poor man is better than the rich man
4. The poor man should be catered to and is deserving
5. If you work for your money, spend it on things you enjoy

Ready for a shocker? My dad is a hardcore liberal democrat. Wouldn't have guessed, right? Took me until after I was 20 to realize all this was backwards.

[Greg Jennings]

GrandDad was a smart fellow. Lived through WWI, the Great Depression, WWII, etc. Worked his tail off.

Mom and Dad divorced when I was really young. GrandDad was my Dad's dad. He lived next door. Was my primary father figure till I was 12 or so. Pardon me if I idolize him a bit...

Get this: He was a Democrat. At that time, everyone, it seemed, was a Democrat. The Democratic and Republican parties of today are not what they were back then. It was the semi-rural South and it was a different time. Life was about both being self-sufficient and helping your self-sufficient neighbor when he, say, broke his arm falling while repairing the roof of his barn.

I grew up thinking I was a Democrat and it being the party of working people. Then, when I was in college, I became a Reagan "big tent" Republican.

Nowadays, I don't know what I am. I believe in doing for myself and helping my neighbor when he needs help. I believe in fiscal responsibility including paying my taxes. I believe in the govn't, the preacher man and everyone else staying out of my personal business.

That's more pontificating about things I don't know anything about that I've done in a loooonnngggg time. So, right now, I believe I need to shut up and go wet down my whistle.

Greg J.

[cjhills]

I grew up being taught you should save for what you want.
In 1978 a Ford 150 pickup was $4250, Interrest was 8% with 1/3 down on a two year loan payments were about $160. If I had saved for the truck at about 2% interrest ,by the time I saved $4250 the truck would have been $7,000. and I would have struggled with a junker for three years. Now interrest is lower and inflation higher. You and the economy and all the rest of us are far better off if you get a loan and buy what you need. Of course you need some visable means of support to get the loan.
One reason things are cheap in the middle of nowhere is nobody is ther to buy them. Every thing you really need costs more. I have been there and done that. God and good luck saved my butt. Maybe a little work on my part but nothing else.
Having been self employed my whole life. I will tell you this, you will put in many more hours than your 9to5 friends. Plus you need to supply your own bennies. My friends who lived in cities got to spend much more time hunting and fishing on week ends, with equipment I couldn't afford and would tell me how lucky I was to live up here.
With real estate that increased 100 over and the improved economy in depressed areas they turn out to be right and We wouldn't change much. But it was a long hard battle and we probably won't see that again.
Plus the land that we bought for $50 a acre is now five to ten thousand or more so you will probably need a loan to buy it. Good Luck CJ

[asc]

Nowadays, I don't know what I am. I believe in doing for myself and helping my neighbor when he needs help. I believe in fiscal responsibility including paying my taxes. I believe in the govn't, the preacher man and everyone else staying out of my personal business.
Greg J.[/quote]X2....Good post

[whatsnext]

Nowadays, I don't know what I am. I believe in doing for myself and helping my neighbor when he needs help. I believe in fiscal responsibility including paying my taxes. I believe in the govn't, the preacher man and everyone else staying out of my personal business.
Greg J.

X2....Good post[/quote]

This ^ times a thousand.

[ACooper]

GrandDad was a smart fellow. Lived through WWI, the Great Depression, WWII, etc. Worked his tail off.

Mom and Dad divorced when I was really young. GrandDad was my Dad's dad. He lived next door. Was my primary father figure till I was 12 or so. Pardon me if I idolize him a bit...

Get this: He was a Democrat. At that time, everyone, it seemed, was a Democrat. The Democratic and Republican parties of today are not what they were back then. It was the semi-rural South and it was a different time. Life was about both being self-sufficient and helping your self-sufficient neighbor when he, say, broke his arm falling while repairing the roof of his barn.

I grew up thinking I was a Democrat and it being the party of working people. Then, when I was in college, I became a Reagan "big tent" Republican.

Nowadays, I don't know what I am. I believe in doing for myself and helping my neighbor when he needs help. I believe in fiscal responsibility including paying my taxes. I believe in the govn't, the preacher man and everyone else staying out of my personal business.

That's more pontificating about things I don't know anything about that I've done in a loooonnngggg time. So, right now, I believe I need to shut up and go wet down my whistle.

Greg J.

Best post I've read in a while.

[Onk]

Two words for you: Dave Ramsey.
Check him out, listen to his stuff, and follow his recommendations. Simple, clear, and effective.
Do whatever it takes to fully eliminate debt from the picture and it totally changes the landscape of your life.
Just my $.02

Great advice! Ramsey is the man!

[Onk]

Hey I say if your happy doing what you want and are not counting on any of us that work the "9-5" for anything such as, ( health care, food, housing, utilities or transportation) then have at it! Not the advice I'd give my son who is in college at this time, but he does not listen to me I don't know why you would either!

[RoostersMom]

just flabbergasted by the need to take out students loans? I didnt have an extra 40k lying around I wasnt using. The student loan organization helps those of us who work hard to make a living pay for school. There is nothing wrong with the concept, the only problem is if you decide to default. That affects the rest of us. Stoneface began this thread seeking a little friendly advice about his future, I have a feeling he got more than he bargained for. Anyone want to talk gundogs instead of Dave Ramsey and debt?

phoneman

Maybe flabbergasted is too strong of a word. I'm surprised that so many people are willing to go into debt for an education. I didn't have an extra 40K laying around either, I waited tables on the overnight shift to afford school and worked some pretty cruddy jobs in the summer and saved everything. There is no "need" to take out student loans in most cases - it's purely a "want" (in my opinion). It's easier to just take out a loan and worry about paying it later. The OP asked about "your thoughts on debt." My thought is that you just don't do it. I've learned that the hard way.

Both of my nephews will be "paying as you go" by working part-time and choosing to go to a state school with in-state tuition. I worked almost full time through school so I didn't have to take out loans. Dave Ramsey recommends a book on his site, I think it's called Debt Free U or something like that, it's recommended as a good read for how to get through school with no student loans. I am of the opinion that a community college gives you a good start and gets you part way there (to your degree) without you having to pay so much. I didn't go that route because I didn't have too, but if it was that or student loans, you can bet I'd have been at a community college!

[phoneman45]

roostersmom,

I commend your ability to pay as you go. I took several classes at a local comm. college but as I climbed the ladder at work the demands of the job got to the point that attending classes was no longer an option. I had to finish my degree online. Unfortunately pay as you go is not an option with most universities that offer distance learning. It was student loans or nothing. I am looking at beginning grad work this fall and wanted to go to a local school. Maybe that will be an option then. Either way I will end with two quotes, one I heard from a school prinicpal that encouraged me to get my teaching degree, " Nothing worth having is ever easy to get " and we all know this one , You get what you pay for. Good hunting.

[gotpointers]

OK, take this for what it's worth. It's what my grandfather beat into me. I didn't understand till later in life, but once I did, they have served me wll.

Grandfather's Five Rules of Financial Independence

1. Pay yourself first.
2. Don't buy what you can't pay for.
3. Don't turn away free money.
4. Think very hard before you pay someone to do something that you can do yourself.
5. Don't invest in anything that you don't understand

I don't understand "pay yourself first"? In what context. Also "Don't turn away free money". Please explain.
#4 i live by that one.

[Greg Jennings]

Note: Grand Dad actually said "Don't ever spend all that you make". I restated it to "Pay yourself first". It just means more to me that way. Grand Dad understood that when people have money in their pocket, they tend to spend it. In today's world, my claim is that people will tend to take on monthly bills and payments right up to the average balance in their checking account.

Pay yourself first, fundamentally, means living well below your means and saving money, preferably automatically. It means never letting your standard of living creep up to your income. It means having aggressive savings goals and giving them first priority.

Some examples:
1. Have a budget and live by it! See http://www.mvelopes.com/ for those that like the Dave Ramsey envelopes idea.
2. Make savings automatic. Do it via direct deposit, scheduled transfer, etc. Don't let that money burn a hole in your pocket.
3. Saving aggressively in employer's 401-k/403-b/IRA kind of plan. Max it out. Then make use of the $5k per year IRA exemption.
4. When one gets a raise, a bonus has a good year, etc., put it into savings, don't go blow it on an expensive car or getting into a habit of eating out.


Don't turn away free money means capitalizing on opportunities for "free money".

Quick examples:
1. There are millions of people in the country that don't file their taxes and walk away from the refund.
2. A large percentage of people whose employer matches a part of their contribution in their 401-k plan don't take advantage of it. They just piss the money away.
3. A lot of companies allow their employees to buy company stock at a discount to the market. My wife's company's discount is 15%. Can't just walk away from that!
4. Check into refinancing your mortgage. Lots of people are pissing money away in interest.

This is trivial, but I introduced my kids to the idea by jumping on them when they order a large drink at McDonalds or similar where the refills are free. Why pay for a large when the refills are free? To save the 10' walk to the soda machine?

Best,

Greg J.

[gotpointers]

Note: Grand Dad actually said "Don't ever spend all that you make". I restated it to "Pay yourself first". It just means more to me that way. Grand Dad understood that when people have money in their pocket, they tend to spend it. In today's world, my claim is that people will tend to take on monthly bills and payments right up to the average balance in their checking account.

Pay yourself first, fundamentally, means living well below your means and saving money, preferably automatically. It means never letting your standard of living creep up to your income. It means having aggressive savings goals and giving them first priority.

Some examples:
1. Have a budget and live by it! See http://www.mvelopes.com/ for those that like the Dave Ramsey envelopes idea.
2. Make savings automatic. Do it via direct deposit, scheduled transfer, etc. Don't let that money burn a hole in your pocket.
3. Saving aggressively in employer's 401-k/403-b/IRA kind of plan. Max it out. Then make use of the $5k per year IRA exemption.
4. When one gets a raise, a bonus has a good year, etc., put it into savings, don't go blow it on an expensive car or getting into a habit of eating out.


Don't turn away free money means capitalizing on opportunities for "free money".

Quick examples:
1. There are millions of people in the country that don't file their taxes and walk away from the refund.
2. A large percentage of people whose employer matches a part of their contribution in their 401-k plan don't take advantage of it. They just piss the money away.
3. A lot of companies allow their employees to buy company stock at a discount to the market. My wife's company's discount is 15%. Can't just walk away from that!
4. Check into refinancing your mortgage. Lots of people are pissing money away in interest.

This is trivial, but I introduced my kids to the idea by jumping on them when they order a large drink at McDonalds or similar where the refills are free. Why pay for a large when the refills are free? To save the 10' walk to the soda machine?

Best,

Greg J.

Thanks, i understand now what you meant.

[BillThomas]

Debt is Bondage and Slavery..

-Philosopher

[ddoyle]

Was told this in an economics class and never will forget it! Money is a wonderful slave and a horrible master.......I don't care how much you love what you do if you are in debt and "have to" do it...it won't be fun.

[tn red]

Best way i know to not enjoy something you love is do it for a living....

[brad27]

Best way i know to not enjoy something you love is do it for a living....

I don't know If I agree with that. I have met people in a variety of fields that are doing what they love. They will be the first to tell you it is alot of work, but they wouldn't trade it for anything.

[MO_GSP]

brad27, your avatar is absolutely awesome!!! that is all

[dreamerofdreams]

Also, if you don't have debt you don't have a credit score and if you don't have a credit score, how do you get approved for a mortgage?

I don't have any debt but do have a credit score. Put your gas on a no-fee credit card and pay it off every month. As long as you have the self control to never put anything on the card that you can't pay cash for today and pay it off in full at the end of each month, you're not in debt.

I think college debt is okay so long as it's 1. not excessive and 2. leads to a degree in a field with jobs.

[deke]

This is very simple, MAKE MORE THAN YOU SPEND, quit whinning about not wanting to be stuck in a 9 to 5 job, and how much you owe in College loans, I would go $35,000 in debt right now to go party for four years.

[Mountaineer]

Re college "debt".....the issue is more with attaching the word debt to the money rather than understanding the principle of an investment in education.
The particular word used then often defines both the speed of repayment and the chatter that accompanies it.

[tn red]

Best way i know to not enjoy something you love is do it for a living....

I don't know If I agree with that. I have met people in a variety of fields that are doing what they love. They will be the first to tell you it is alot of work, but they wouldn't trade it for anything.

Do you think they enjoy the hobby as much with the pressure of having to make a living from it? I understand loving what you do.

[brad27]

Red, I think it would depend on what it was I was doing. I love cooking but would hate to do it for a living. I wouldn't want the pressure. On the other hand, if I got to do what I love more often by making a living at it, even with the added pressure, it might be worth it. Tough call honestly. I've recently come to the conclusion that I will be working for a majority of my life, I might as well enjoy what I'm doing.

[windswept]

Be careful with that Ramsey guy. He's figured out a way of charging people, schools, churches and poorly run businesses hundreds of dollars in his "ministry" to simply use common sense when it comes to handling your finances.
I'm probably beating a dead horse here stoneface but if you want to get out of debt and avoid the "9-5 rat race" I'd advise using that business degree, be willing to work a LOT more than 9-5 and with some self discipline and hard work you will find your place in life. As someone else mentioned, self employment can and often does result in much more than a 40 hour work week.
Congratulations on that degree. Seriously.

[fuzznut]

Not all debt is bad, if you are using that debt to actually make money. Like someone said, without debt no business would be in business. Only borrow money or be in debt for things that are long lasting, car or house or inventory (makes ya money), not dinner at some fancy restaurant or new sneakers.

Those that become financially successful use OPM- other peoples money. If you borrow $100 and can make $150 by doing so, you are on the right track.

Your college degree was gotten with OPM- now go use that and make enough to pay that off and make more. And always pay off that credit card every single month! Never ever carry a balance, that's the credit card company using OPM- yours- to get rich.

And be willing to think outside the box when it comes to making a living. There are a thousand ways to make a buck, figure out a need and fill it. But be willing to work your butt off, be creative and willing to listen to others who have been there, done that- learn from their experiences.

You are in the drivers seat, so drive it, don't ride it! Take charge of your own life and enjoy.
Fuzz

[RayGubernat]

Stoneface -

Just a silly thought or two. In many areas, if you do a two year(I believe) stint teaching, your college loans wil be forgiven. That's correct...FORGIVEN! As in FREE.

If you won't have a teaching certificate or the requisite education credits to sit for one, there might be a private school option.

There are some situations, such as teaching in remote areas, like an Indian res, where lodging might be included.

You are a young guy. Overseas employment is sometimes TAX FREE. I knew one fellow who worked for Esso as a welding inspector. He spent two years in Saudi Arabia. He lived virtually expense free in a secure compound. His wife could fly to Paris or London or Rome for the weekend to shop, for the cost of an overnight room...the airfare was free. He could fly his whole family back to the US for free once a year. He came back to the States after two years and bought his house, SPOT CASH with the money he saved... and never looked back.

RayG