Your thoughts on debt.

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Stoneface
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Your thoughts on debt.

Post by Stoneface » Thu May 24, 2012 2:09 pm

I was wondering what some of you life veterans think about debt outside of just that it sucks. I've got one more semester of college o go and I'm going to be $35,000 in on financial aid debt and I've got $3,500 in other debt. But, I don't pay anything for housing right now (at least, not for another seven months) and I own my pickup out right. I've decided the rat race isn't for me and don't want to enter the workforce at a 9-5er to work my life away eight hours at a time. I'm planning on using every cent I can muster after expense for my dogs, to pay down the debt. Then I'm going to buy a piece of land and build a small house in bird country with either the earthbag or cob construction methods (you build a house out of dirt, it's really cool, look it up on YouTube) and pay off the land as much as possible. Going to try to live as self-sustaining as possible.

Anyhow, does anyone here have any advice on handling debt? Has anyone had debt problems and worked through it? Any advice is apprecaited.
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nikegundog
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Re: Your thoughts on debt.

Post by nikegundog » Thu May 24, 2012 2:20 pm

You've went through college and don't want to be a 9-5er, I guess a little background on what field you took and what kind of job you plan on getting might help answer your question.

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JakeDD
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Re: Your thoughts on debt.

Post by JakeDD » Thu May 24, 2012 2:26 pm

Two words for you: Dave Ramsey.
Check him out, listen to his stuff, and follow his recommendations. Simple, clear, and effective.
Do whatever it takes to fully eliminate debt from the picture and it totally changes the landscape of your life.
Just my $.02

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Re: Your thoughts on debt.

Post by vartz04 » Thu May 24, 2012 2:38 pm

Not sure why you went to college?

I went to college for construction management. Long hours during the spring/summer and slowing down in the fall and a ton of free time in the winter. Works well for me cause I like to hunt so I can have the time then to get out and do so. I ended up about 32k in debt.

Student loan debt isn't that bad of a debt to be in, id compare it more to a mortgage. you get to write off the interest on your taxes and as long as it isn't a huge amount (which yours isn't) then just pay a little extra each month and be done with it.

How do you plan on paying down the debt? What kind of job are you going to take? How do you plan to mortgage the land without a regular tax paying W2 receiving job?

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Stoneface
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Re: Your thoughts on debt.

Post by Stoneface » Thu May 24, 2012 2:54 pm

Thanks for the tip, I'll look up Ramsey.

Alright, Nike. I'm really gonna set myself up for this one and you've got my permission to have full leaway to take total advantage of this opportunity... I'm a business major.

Was kind of wondering around in the dark, had no opinions of my own. Basically just adopted what my family believed because it was what I grew up hearing. The world didn't make sense, etc, etc, etc. So, I went to college - a little late, but I went - because that's what you do when you want to be happy and, from what everyone says, life without a college degree means you'll be drudging down in the trenches of life until you die. First two years of college really shook me up and I learned about the politial system and such and became more open minded and started to actually think about things before I decided what to believe about politics, the economy, life, etc. I got so far along that I figure it would be stupid to quit school, although I think a degree is a waste of money for most majors. So, with a semester left I can't see the point in dropping out now. My student loan debt is what's going to kill me. I'd drop out right now if I didn't have any debt or if I could find a job that paid enough to cover living expenses and to make a dent in my debt.
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nikegundog
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Re: Your thoughts on debt.

Post by nikegundog » Thu May 24, 2012 3:07 pm

Stoneface wrote:Thanks for the tip, I'll look up Ramsey.

Alright, Nike. I'm really gonna set myself up for this one and you've got my permission to have full leaway to take total advantage of this opportunity... I'm a business major.

Was kind of wondering around in the dark, had no opinions of my own. Basically just adopted what my family believed because it was what I grew up hearing. The world didn't make sense, etc, etc, etc. So, I went to college - a little late, but I went - because that's what you do when you want to be happy and, from what everyone says, life without a college degree means you'll be drudging down in the trenches of life until you die. First two years of college really shook me up and I learned about the politial system and such and became more open minded and started to actually think about things before I decided what to believe about politics, the economy, life, etc. I got so far along that I figure it would be stupid to quit school, although I think a degree is a waste of money for most majors. So, with a semester left I can't see the point in dropping out now. My student loan debt is what's going to kill me. I'd drop out right now if I didn't have any debt or if I could find a job that paid enough to cover living expenses and to make a dent in my debt.
Yes you would be stupid to quit school now, as mentioned your debt isn't the best spot to be in, however as student loan debt not that big of deal as long as you truely work at bringing it down. The only thing that I really have to say is you need to work on a plan right now on what you intend to do when your done with school, and the 9-5 rat race will probably be what it takes. If I was early 20s deeply in debt and loved to hunt, I would be on the road to the oil fields on North Dakota, out of debt in 2 years with a nice bit of experience to put on my resume.

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Re: Your thoughts on debt.

Post by ezzy333 » Thu May 24, 2012 3:24 pm

Stoneface wrote:Thanks for the tip, I'll look up Ramsey.

Alright, Nike. I'm really gonna set myself up for this one and you've got my permission to have full leaway to take total advantage of this opportunity... I'm a business major.

Was kind of wondering around in the dark, had no opinions of my own. Basically just adopted what my family believed because it was what I grew up hearing. The world didn't make sense, etc, etc, etc. So, I went to college - a little late, but I went - because that's what you do when you want to be happy and, from what everyone says, life without a college degree means you'll be drudging down in the trenches of life until you die. First two years of college really shook me up and I learned about the politial system and such and became more open minded and started to actually think about things before I decided what to believe about politics, the economy, life, etc. I got so far along that I figure it would be stupid to quit school, although I think a degree is a waste of money for most majors. So, with a semester left I can't see the point in dropping out now. My student loan debt is what's going to kill me. I'd drop out right now if I didn't have any debt or if I could find a job that paid enough to cover living expenses and to make a dent in my debt.

I am sure a few years experience, a family to support, and some general maturing on your part will change a lot of opinions you have today and will solve your problems if you do what you need to.That 9 to 5 rat race is something most of us look forward to so we can pay the bills, be able to afford all of our toys, and keep our body and mind busy so we at least have a chance to leave this world a better place than we found it. Life gets awful boring quickly when you have nothing you want to accomplish. Sounds like you are trying to justify wasting the last few years of your life already. That is sad.

I dont mean to be taking shots at you but it is hard to make it sound any other way when you have already decided to pass on doing anything really worthwhile with your life or take advantage of all the opportunities you have that someone died to protect for your use.

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Re: Your thoughts on debt.

Post by Sharon » Thu May 24, 2012 3:51 pm

Stoneface wrote:Thanks for the tip, I'll look up Ramsey.

Alright, Nike. I'm really gonna set myself up for this one and you've got my permission to have full leaway to take total advantage of this opportunity... I'm a business major.

Was kind of wondering around in the dark, had no opinions of my own. Basically just adopted what my family believed because it was what I grew up hearing. The world didn't make sense, etc, etc, etc. So, I went to college - a little late, but I went - because that's what you do when you want to be happy and, from what everyone says, life without a college degree means you'll be drudging down in the trenches of life until you die. First two years of college really shook me up and I learned about the politial system and such and became more open minded and started to actually think about things before I decided what to believe about politics, the economy, life, etc. I got so far along that I figure it would be stupid to quit school, although I think a degree is a waste of money for most majors. So, with a semester left I can't see the point in dropping out now. My student loan debt is what's going to kill me. I'd drop out right now if I didn't have any debt or if I could find a job that paid enough to cover living expenses and to make a dent in my debt.


WE all have those thoughts from time to time. Finish school, work on your debt through sacrifice and work 8-6 somewhere. K eep those dreams but also stick to the reality plan.

You really only need $900. a month to survive. That's what people on social asistance get . $500.00 for your one room apt, $200. for food monthly , $200. for heat and hydro. Sorry there's no money for cable /computer/ phone or a new tire for your bicycle.
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Re: Your thoughts on debt.

Post by SpinoneIllinois » Thu May 24, 2012 6:34 pm

Don't rush any decisions. Next thing you know, you'll fall in love, get married, have kids to support, you'll want to plan for their future, you'll want a new gun, a new pickup, a new house, etc. And the 9-to-5 might just seem like a reasonable way of putting bread on the table.

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Re: Your thoughts on debt.

Post by birddogger » Thu May 24, 2012 6:39 pm

Spinone Illinois wrote:Don't rush any decisions. Next thing you know, you'll fall in love, get married, have kids to support, you'll want to plan for their future, you'll want a new gun, a new pickup, a new house, etc. And the 9-to-5 might just seem like a reasonable way of putting bread on the table.
Sorry to get off topic but your avatar dog has the most mischievous eyes I have ever seen on a dog :lol: . I love it! :lol:

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Re: Your thoughts on debt.

Post by Brittguy » Thu May 24, 2012 6:54 pm

The trick is to find something you enjoy. If you like your work , it gives you a feeling of accomplishment , then the time spent there is enjoyable. Do you plan to ever get married? Your ambitions will be a turn off to a lot of women. Do you plan to have children? Most parents want to provide the best they can for their children. That includes a job that provides sufficient income to meet their need.

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Re: Your thoughts on debt.

Post by seacowboy » Thu May 24, 2012 7:20 pm

I have my B.S. in Environmental Management and Land Use. Yes I'm glad I got it but definitely not using it with running a tug boat around the Gulf of Mexico and up the East Coast delivering 8.4 million gals of fuel at a time. I had to go back to school again for 8 months to get different licensing through the Coast Guard and theres more loans on top of that besides from my 5 yrs of college. I'm not biatching but if you want to do some other than "drudging" then put some thought and effort into seeing what opportunities maybe out there. The pay is much better than any government job in that field, has full benefits and you only work 180 days a year. There are plenty of jobs to be had. Moving maybe required but if you want to work there has be some effort put into finding a job. The oil field out there is an option, as well as offshore work on rigs or their supply boats.

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Re: Your thoughts on debt.

Post by SpinoneIllinois » Thu May 24, 2012 7:27 pm

"Sorry to get off topic but your avatar dog has the most mischievous eyes I have ever seen on a dog . I love it!"

She's outgrown most of her mischief, but the new pup keeps trying to get her in trouble.

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Re: Your thoughts on debt.

Post by llewellinsetter » Thu May 24, 2012 8:31 pm

JakeDD wrote:Two words for you: Dave Ramsey.
Check him out, listen to his stuff, and follow his recommendations. Simple, clear, and effective.
Do whatever it takes to fully eliminate debt from the picture and it totally changes the landscape of your life.
Just my $.02
So im 23 I've been using Dave Ramsey sense I was 15 its one of the best programs out there for saving money. i have no debt i own a house on 300 acres and i own my car. It plain old works. I paid 75,000 for my house and it's paid off. Im a cook. We don't make a ton of money but with that program I am able to do the work i love to do and still have everything I want.
Last edited by llewellinsetter on Thu May 24, 2012 8:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Stoneface
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Re: Your thoughts on debt.

Post by Stoneface » Thu May 24, 2012 8:37 pm

Threads always take a detour from the original question, but you get used to that. And, Ezzy, I usually agree with what you're saying, but you're way out of line when you say, "you have already decided to pass on doing anything really worthwhile with your life or take advantage of all the opportunities you have that someone died to protect for your use." I don't know where you get off or what gives you this idea. What, because I want be a happier? heck, I'd say that's honoring those that have died. If my idea of prison is a nine-to-five job and I'm looking for freedom which, if I'm not mistaken, is what our service men and women died for, I guess I'm missing how that's passing on an opportunity and not taking advantage of an opportunity.

You make it sound like like I was to turn hippy, hug trees all day and live off the government's buck. All I want is to not be bogged down by finances or financial worry. What's wrong with that. I don't know if you've ever been poor or get slammed with penalties because you missed a payment or had to heat your bath water on the stove because the gas was shut off, but it sucks. You say I don't want to do anything worthwhile and am passing on the advantages our military has died to protect? Fine. But, I say you're way out of line.

Warren Buffet said, "You have two choices in life: You can get up in the morning and do something you love, or you can get up in the morning and do something you don't love." If you enjoy the rat race and that's where you find enjoyment in life, that's great for you. But, if you hate the rat race and are joining it just because it's "what you're supposed to do" as dictated by social norm, then you may as well find the nearest veteran and spit in his face.

I really don't konw where you get off.
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Re: Your thoughts on debt.

Post by Sharon » Thu May 24, 2012 8:38 pm

seacowboy wrote:I have my B.S. in Environmental Management and Land Use. Yes I'm glad I got it but definitely not using it with running a tug boat around the Gulf of Mexico and up the East Coast delivering 8.4 million gals of fuel at a time. I had to go back to school again for 8 months to get different licensing through the Coast Guard and theres more loans on top of that besides from my 5 yrs of college. I'm not biatching but if you want to do some other than "drudging" then put some thought and effort into seeing what opportunities maybe out there. The pay is much better than any government job in that field, has full benefits and you only work 180 days a year. There are plenty of jobs to be had. Moving maybe required but if you want to work there has be some effort put into finding a job. The oil field out there is an option, as well as offshore work on rigs or their supply boats.
Sure you're using your "environmental management " degree. You're making sure none of your oil spills into the gulf. :)
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Re: Your thoughts on debt.

Post by gotpointers » Thu May 24, 2012 9:01 pm

35k is not that bad. Stick it out the degree will get you a good paying job eventually. No need to live like the unibomber isolated in the middle of nowhere. Wife kids and family do have benifits. Don't listen to brittguy and change to be marketable to women. Tell any potential canadate up front " i was hunting before you got here and i will be hunting when you're gone" life is much easier if you have a wife with similar interests as long as they dont include drinking all your beer and tramping around.

if it happens that you are unable to pay back the student loan i wouldint worry much about not being able to get a mortage. With the tightening restictions from banks many investors are gobbling up the low priced repos and selling them on REC s. Land and homes are dirt cheap right now and will be for at least another 4 years.

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Re: Your thoughts on debt.

Post by ezzy333 » Thu May 24, 2012 9:18 pm

Stoneface wrote:Threads always take a detour from the original question, but you get used to that. And, Ezzy, I usually agree with what you're saying, but you're way out of line when you say, "you have already decided to pass on doing anything really worthwhile with your life or take advantage of all the opportunities you have that someone died to protect for your use." I don't know where you get off or what gives you this idea. What, because I want be a happier? heck, I'd say that's honoring those that have died. If my idea of prison is a nine-to-five job and I'm looking for freedom which, if I'm not mistaken, is what our service men and women died for, I guess I'm missing how that's passing on an opportunity and not taking advantage of an opportunity.

You make it sound like like I was to turn hippy, hug trees all day and live off the government's buck. All I want is to not be bogged down by finances or financial worry. What's wrong with that. I don't know if you've ever been poor or get slammed with penalties because you missed a payment or had to heat your bath water on the stove because the gas was shut off, but it sucks. You say I don't want to do anything worthwhile and am passing on the advantages our military has died to protect? Fine. But, I say you're way out of line.

Warren Buffet said, "You have two choices in life: You can get up in the morning and do something you love, or you can get up in the morning and do something you don't love." If you enjoy the rat race and that's where you find enjoyment in life, that's great for you. But, if you hate the rat race and are joining it just because it's "what you're supposed to do" as dictated by social norm, then you may as well find the nearest veteran and spit in his face.

I really don't konw where you get off.
I told you it would sound like I was bitching at you but all I was doing is answering what your post sounded like. I read that you were noy going to get stuck in a 9 to 5 job but rather go out a build dirt house and hibranate or something. Sorry if that is not what you were saying. I have no problem with how you decide to live as long as you pay your bills and not stick someone else for them.


Sorry

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Re: Your thoughts on debt.

Post by ultracarry » Thu May 24, 2012 9:30 pm

I think ezzy hit the nail on the head... Are you sure you don't want to live in a "mud house" and train dogs for a living? That would explain the outlandish YouTube videos on dog training, constant questions, 15 new threads a day, and possibly a dog training advertisement on the driver door of your truck.....

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Re: Your thoughts on debt.

Post by phoneman45 » Thu May 24, 2012 9:42 pm

Stoneface,

I feel your pain. I am one class away from my BA and will have 40,000 in loans. Many on here will think to accrue such debt is ridiculous but I will be the first in my family to earn a degree. so it is worth it. As for going back to the land I applaud you. Have you ever read Richard Proenneke's story about building a cabin in the Alaskan wildernes?. PBS runs the documentary ocassionally. I have the book and the film, incredible footage. The wife and I currently live in the city but as the children have grown and gone we are planning on returning to the country next spring, CANT WAIT...Take care and good luck.

phoneman45

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Stoneface
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Re: Your thoughts on debt.

Post by Stoneface » Thu May 24, 2012 10:05 pm

Ezzy, it's cool. I guess I took what you said as saying I didn't respect our military men and women. Just struck a nerve. Maybe I should have taken a breather before typing that last post.

P, I've seen the documentary. It's on YouTube if you ever have a notion to watch it again. It's a great documentary. I haven't read the book about him, but did read his bio online. He was an interesting person.

Ultra, I don't know why you take my posts so pesonal. Live in a mud house and mess with dogs for a living? Heck yeah! Name one thing wrong with a life like that. Here's some of those mud houses. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GbM2In5Hfx4

You caught me a little of guard by the "outlandish YouTube videos" comment. What do you mean? And you're right, that is a decal on my pickup door. There's another on the tail gate and another on the other door. Reads:

Dog Traininga
Gun Dogs, Obedience
Behavior, Dog Supplies
Phone number & eMail
StonefaceKennels.com

You need any dogs trained? I've got an open kennel. :)
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Re: Your thoughts on debt.

Post by Cajun Casey » Thu May 24, 2012 10:07 pm

Whoever dies with the biggest outstanding balance wins.
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Re: Your thoughts on debt.

Post by ultracarry » Thu May 24, 2012 10:16 pm

No training needed...... Just confirmed the reasoning behind the posts.


BTW if you can't afford it, don't borrow it or buy it.

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Re: Your thoughts on debt.

Post by TraditionsGSPs2010 » Thu May 24, 2012 10:25 pm

Lets flash forward about 30 years...

You never joined the rat race, never got a decent job, never got decent health benefits, never made enough to save for retirement, never bought that .22 your kid deserved when he/she turned 13, you did marry a chick with hairy armpits, never took your family to Disney, your kid did make fun of for having bugs in his hair because he/she lived in a mud house, you gave up on bird hunting because your truck pooped the bed and you couldn't afford to fix it, you gave up long ago on never taking a handout from the government because those food stamps buy a lot better food than ramen noodles, your hairy armpit wife did leave you because even she got sick of the mud house (by the way, those old hippy girls do not age well) and worst of all, you'll think back to the day you wrote this on GDF and wish that you had listened to Ezzy. But..... but the man never had you for a second.

I get the whole "i'm going to do it my way and be happy" but remember, the window to jump start your life never gets any wider than now. There is a reason so many people join the rat race. It works. Please refrain from quoting billionaires who have lost their minds until you are rubbing elbows with them at the country club. It is easy to say "do what you love" right up to the point that your kid has a major medical problem and you have no way to make it better. I would hold off on the mud house and try to build some perspective first.
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Re: Your thoughts on debt.

Post by Cajun Casey » Thu May 24, 2012 10:39 pm

Dogs don't live in mud houses. 'Specially other people's dogs.
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Re: Your thoughts on debt.

Post by Stoneface » Thu May 24, 2012 11:15 pm

Look, I never said anything about not wanting to work and not wanting to make money. What I said was I wanted to live debt free. Why pay over $70 per square foot when you can pay $5 per square foot for a better house, the only different being elbow grease? What's wrong with not wanting a mortgage payment or pickup payment? What's wrong with wanting to grow some food to cut your grocery bill down? I never said I didn't want to work, I just said I didn't want the 9-5er. Warren Buffet, Farmer John and Joe Birddog Trainer doesn't work the typical 9-5er. They work their tails off, but not in a typical 9-5 job. I've got no problem working up a sweat, I just don't want to spend eight hours a day working under someone else's thumb, on the clock and out of my mind. I've got not problem driving my '95 pickup - Sam Walton drove a '79 pickup when he died in '91. I've got no problem with that if it means I don't have to make a pickup payment and its heat, cold and radio works and it runs decent enough. I'd rather put the money in the bank or spend it on something I'll enjoy a little more.

This thread has taken a turn from advice on dealing with debt to a debate on whether or not the nuclear life is the best way to go. Didn't mean to rub anyone the wrong way and not looking for advice and which path to go in life. I don't need a mentor, just a tip or two would be more than appreciated.
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Re: Your thoughts on debt.

Post by gotpointers » Fri May 25, 2012 7:32 am

there are very few people that can make a living training dogs. The ones that do had a really good start at it. Meaning having material assets they were able to use to their advantage. Maybe working as an assistant to one of the big guys that has been successful would give you a great insight into what it takes to make it. I. Think you will see the dogs are a passion for many of them and not a moneymaker that puts food on the table.

Warren Buffet owns BNSF railroad where i work and i don't see his net worth coming up much due to Berksire Hathaway class b shares increasing in value since he bought it.

The monster corporations regularly have bankrupcies and reorganizations and they are able to come out ahead from it. There are many sub companies that always go down. They have the backing in the form of bailouts and other political safeguards that the working class pays for in the form of taxes and our increasing national debt. Making money by losing money is something average joe will never do.

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Re: Your thoughts on debt.

Post by ezzy333 » Fri May 25, 2012 7:40 am

Since ittakes money to start a business and you don't have any, I have no idea how you would get started without debt. Plus I have never known anyone who owns much or that has made a great deal of money who hasn't been in debt. I don't quite get this whole thing about debt. All it amounts to is the fact you needed more money than you had to but something you NEED. Happens to everyone that has any desire to better themselves in some way. Probably 99% of the people you know have debt and many a lot more than you and aren't concerned about it since they determined they NEEDED money to get to where they NEEDED to go. And since they didn't have enough of their own, they asked someone if they could borrow some of theirs and they would pay them for using it. That is how you get ahead in this life.

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Re: Your thoughts on debt.

Post by ultracarry » Fri May 25, 2012 8:37 am

Ezzy the kennels can be made with climbing rose bushes and some twine with a stick gate, dog houses made of mud, food is as easy as ground corn with roadkill and wheat.

Reminds me of a "trainer" I once knew.

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Re: Your thoughts on debt.

Post by Mountaineer » Fri May 25, 2012 9:04 am

Well, you at least want to pay off your college debt rather than have it forgiven...as is so popular an idea today.
Good luck.

Building an earth house in bird country might work...and then bird country might fundamentally change, as could the value of your non-traditional house on any market should you choose to follow to the next great bird country.
Decisions need to be made beyond what any of us might prefer today and go toward the long-term end game of tomorrow and decades down the road....which is pretty well unpredictable and may well involve others past yourself.
Hard work is not the answer.....working hard at working smart is.

Concerning living debt-free. One does that by spending less than your income, which will find most of us making choices which may be temporarily less than satisfactory.
As far as managing debt, few of your age or even older have an unbiased or non-fantasy view(a college degree, no guarantor of non-fantasy or clear-thinking by the way). Therefore go with some sound, professional financial management advice...the earlier, the better. That advice will cost, often based upon value. Pay it...the dutch uncle advice will be money invested.
A mentor is exactly what you need...the misunderstanding and non-acceptance of that idea exemplifies the problem you are facing and the maturity we all can lack to varying degrees when younkers. We all need a kick in the reality pants at times.

You-Tube.... :D ...not the soundest of paths to a Life well lived.

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Re: Your thoughts on debt.

Post by mcclinj » Fri May 25, 2012 10:27 am

Stoneface,

I myself was about a semester away from graduating college with a average sized college loan debt....this is on top of my wife's very large college debt from her graduate degree in a "nonproductive" major. We have just made the decision for me to transfer from one university and major to another in order to obtain a better career path and financial future. This change is going to require at least another year of school and therefore loan debt. I also went back to school later in life like yourself and am now married and settled down. The hard facts of things is life costs money....if you can do the things you've mentioned (older vehicle, growing some own food...etc) have at it. Living in the middle of nowhere sounds great....I'd be willing to bet, quite a few GDF members here have thought about it. The fact of the matter is it just really isn't practical. That 9-5 job that forces you to watch your life go by 8hrs at a time, also keeps the lights on, braces on your kids teeth, provides an emergency fund for when your dog gets ripped up in the brush or the transmission dies on that old truck.

I don't think anyone is trying to lecture you here....I just think a lot of us have had the same thoughts and after weighing the options....that 9-5 (8-8 in my case) is the better option. If the business worlds not your thing, find what is and work towards it.... the rat race may be the way to get there though.

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Re: Your thoughts on debt.

Post by llewellinsetter » Fri May 25, 2012 12:03 pm

I don't think the 9-5 life is for everyone I work from 2-12 every night I love it I never wanted to work in a cube so I made the choice to do something I truly love. But doing what you live isn't easy I don't make a ton of money but it's worth it for sure.
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Re: Your thoughts on debt.

Post by SpinoneIllinois » Fri May 25, 2012 1:56 pm

I think I might have misinterpreted the original post. I was getting the feeling you wanted to do a middle-of-nowhere version of Occupy Wall Street, with government and society paying your bills. If you want to live frugally, work hard and pursue a dream, more power to ya.

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Re: Your thoughts on debt.

Post by dakotashooter2 » Fri May 25, 2012 2:37 pm

First ...sue the college for giving you a "made up" degree or what someone else called a "nonproductive" major. I noticed they have been doing a lot of that lately. The most rediculous major I have seen is "pre-entrepenurship"......... what the heck is that? Sounds like "cheaping out" on a business degree. If someone brought me a resume with something like that on it I wouldn't even take them seriously. You are paying the college to provide you a worthwhile education, something with value.

Earthbag or cob construction buildings are economical and effective "IF" they are done right. That is the key. Attention to detail is a requirement to make such structures last and work the way they should. Actually they are not always as cheap as they sound. Depending on where you are in this country you may be required to have it engineered and the construction monitored by an engineer which could end up costing as much as a stick built home.

Advice on debt? Sacrifice all the toys for 3-5 years and pay off your debt... then look at buying the "fun stuff". After I got married my wife and I could have easily lived off my wages and saved all of hers with only minor sacrifices and in about 5 years we would have had enough to nearly pay for our first home when we went to buy it.

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Re: Your thoughts on debt.

Post by ezzy333 » Fri May 25, 2012 3:03 pm

dakotashooter2 wrote:First ...sue the college for giving you a "made up" degree or what someone else called a "nonproductive" major. I noticed they have been doing a lot of that lately. The most rediculous major I have seen is "pre-entrepenurship"......... what the heck is that? Sounds like "cheaping out" on a business degree. If someone brought me a resume with something like that on it I wouldn't even take them seriously. You are paying the college to provide you a worthwhile education, something with value.

Advice on debt? Sacrifice all the toys for 3-5 years and pay off your debt... then look at buying the "fun stuff". After I got married my wife and I could have easily lived off my wages and saved all of hers with only minor sacrifices and in about 5 years we would have had enough to nearly pay for our first home when we went to buy it.

Lets see< we sue the college for offering the classes you wanted to take. Wonder just how much you could get for that? Probably better hurry before some one sues for not offering some class they want.

I think it would be a little more honest to sue the person that forced you to take the classes you did. But then we have already determined that individual doesn't have any money.

Other than that I like your advice. Try to hold of buying till you have the money. That in itself saves you 20% on your expenses. This is why I smile everytime I hear that the cost of the puppy or the shotgun, or the boots, or the vehicle doesn't make any difference. It sure did to me, one paycheck and 5 kids later I still thought it was hard to pay 800 for a pup that sure isn't a need when you only have 400 in your pocket.

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Re: Your thoughts on debt.

Post by Cajun Casey » Fri May 25, 2012 3:48 pm

Google "freegan" and "off grid." Let us know how that works out for ya. Oh, wait, you won't be able to. You won't have Internet. :D
Last edited by Cajun Casey on Fri May 25, 2012 6:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Your thoughts on debt.

Post by ultracarry » Fri May 25, 2012 6:03 pm

SpinoneIllinois wrote:I think I might have misinterpreted the original post. I was getting the feeling you wanted to do a middle-of-nowhere version of Occupy Wall Street, with government and society paying your bills. If you want to live frugally, work hard and pursue a dream, more power to ya.
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Re: Your thoughts on debt.

Post by Christopher » Fri May 25, 2012 6:49 pm

So, Stoneface, back to your question, debt can be nasty and ugly. Don't trust the banks and their schemes, somehow they want us to think they are doing us a favor only to then get more of our $$$. You've been very clear here with your debt, and in my opinion that isn't much. When you find a job after school, hammer that credit card with everything you've got. That credit card is your public enemy #1. Pay it off, burn it, cancel it. My rule is I'll use a credit card but if I go one or two months without being able to pay it off entirely, I pay it off ASAP and then cancel it. That is an indicator to myself that I should not have a credit card. You can get a good check card at most any bank, works just like a VISA only draws on your checking acct.

Now, your school loan is almost a necessary evil these days, to put yourself through school. With the interest rates at 1-3% on the student loans I would not be too concerned about it. That is, hammer your credit card first. Then hammer your student loans. Be careful with those student loans and read the fine print. They very well may have hidden charges should you elect to pay the student loan off early. Each one is different, that is the trouble with banks and their loans. They punish us through interest as we pay, or if we opt to pay off early, the fine print may allow them to charge us an extra fee. Chances are the extra fee (if there is one) is quite small in comparison to the interest you will pay over the life of your student loan(s).

Depending on the type of student loan(s) you have there can be a variety of options and benefits. If they are subsidized, that is good. Be sure and spend some time with your financial aid people at your school, they are there to help explain all your options to you. They will walk you through all of this as you plan to graduate, you will do what is called exit counseling for your student loans before you graduate. Further, you don't ever want to just stop paying your student loans. They have some option available should you not be able to pay them, i.e., when I went to graduate school, I was able to defer any payments on my student loans as long as I was enrolled in school.

Anyway, don't sweat it, you'll get them paid off, it won't be easy, it will take hard work but you'll get there.

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Re: Your thoughts on debt.

Post by Sharon » Sat May 26, 2012 9:26 pm

phoneman45 wrote:Stoneface,

I feel your pain. I am one class away from my BA and will have 40,000 in loans. Many on here will think to accrue such debt is ridiculous but I will be the first in my family to earn a degree. so it is worth it. As for going back to the land I applaud you. Have you ever read Richard Proenneke's story about building a cabin in the Alaskan wildernes?. PBS runs the documentary ocassionally. I have the book and the film, incredible footage. The wife and I currently live in the city but as the children have grown and gone we are planning on returning to the country next spring, CANT WAIT...Take care and good luck.

phoneman45
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Re: Your thoughts on debt.

Post by crazyboy » Sun May 27, 2012 10:29 am

How about looking into a trade? Eventually you could have your own business and work the hours you want.

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Re: Your thoughts on debt.

Post by Christopher » Sun May 27, 2012 5:35 pm

crazyboy wrote:How about looking into a trade? Eventually you could have your own business and work the hours you want.
That may be the best reply on this thread. A good friend of mine learned a trade and now has his own business. But he makes his own schedule, he takes off when he wants and schedules his jobs around hunting seasons. For instance, this week he is bear hunting.

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Re: Your thoughts on debt.

Post by asc » Sun May 27, 2012 7:43 pm

TraditionsGSPs2010 wrote:Lets flash forward about 30 years...

You never joined the rat race, never got a decent job, never got decent health benefits, never made enough to save for retirement, never bought that .22 your kid deserved when he/she turned 13, you did marry a chick with hairy armpits, never took your family to Disney, your kid did make fun of for having bugs in his hair because he/she lived in a mud house, you gave up on bird hunting because your truck pooped the bed and you couldn't afford to fix it, you gave up long ago on never taking a handout from the government because those food stamps buy a lot better food than ramen noodles, your hairy armpit wife did leave you because even she got sick of the mud house (by the way, those old hippy girls do not age well) and worst of all, you'll think back to the day you wrote this on GDF and wish that you had listened to Ezzy. But..... but the man never had you for a second.

I get the whole "i'm going to do it my way and be happy" but remember, the window to jump start your life never gets any wider than now. There is a reason so many people join the rat race. It works. Please refrain from quoting billionaires who have lost their minds until you are rubbing elbows with them at the country club. It is easy to say "do what you love" right up to the point that your kid has a major medical problem and you have no way to make it better. I would hold off on the mud house and try to build some perspective first.
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Re: Your thoughts on debt.

Post by phoneman45 » Mon May 28, 2012 10:22 pm

stoneface,

Just watched one of the youtube vids you provided the link to. Pretty neat, the wife loved it. I have a book on log home construction that also has a chapter on cordwood construction, using firewood to build a log home. Pretty interesting design option. Good luck to you, and remember that in the end it is you that must anwer to you, meaning if you can make it work do it. Dont let others decide your fate, I am guilty of that as well, that is why I am stuck in the d*mn city right now, (working on that problem as we speak). I have a great paying job but it will own you if you let it. Keep in touch.

phoneman

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Re: Your thoughts on debt.

Post by RoostersMom » Tue May 29, 2012 12:44 am

I second the Dave Ramsey plan - he is awesome and we are totally debt free minus the house right now. We started on his plan by taking Financial Peace University about a year ago. We've paid off everything now. We have savings, we have things we want now, not just things we need. We did eat "beans and rice" for quite a while - we don't have cable or satellite tv. We don't have a car payment and both our vehicles are at about 280,000 miles each (his is closer to 300,000 now). We don't do debt EVER anymore. It's a frame of mind.

And for those that can't make it through school without student loan debt - I'm just flabbergasted by that. I made it through a BS and an MS with no student loan needed to pay for school. I also worked almost full time while in college and did get scholarships as well - but I was pretty motivated not to take out loans. My hubby did take out some loans - and we just paid them off this fall - 15 years after his graduation from college, that crap can really drag on forever. What a great day that was. We've made a lot of financial mistakes but now live by the principles that Dave Ramsey teaches and it has totally changed our lives for the better. It's also totally helped our marriage by getting us on the same page!

First step in getting out of debt (or any kind of trouble IMO) is to stop getting in worse. Stop digging the hole deeper. Don't take out any more debt. Save up (gasp!) for things you want/need. Trust me, if we could do it, you can do it. You're younger, you have a lot of years ahead of you - you can do this!

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Re: Your thoughts on debt.

Post by Kmack » Tue May 29, 2012 8:30 am

The only debt I can't figure out how to get out of is personal property taxes. If not for the need to pay (with money) for those, I think a guy can live without monetary income.
I am angered that the government, through their notion that they should profit from our very existence, keep us from being able to be totally self reliant.

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Re: Your thoughts on debt.

Post by Stoneface » Tue May 29, 2012 9:15 am

I've been doing some pretty intense studying on Dave Ramsey since the first mention of him on this thread. The guy is amazing. He's like the Warren Buffett fo personal finance. I dig his zero-based budget, envelope system and those baby steps. I like that he doesn't sugar coat it as easy and actually says you should work hard - "Live like no one else, so you can live like no one else." What a concept: work hard now so you don't have to work hard later. Revelation. ;)

I do have a question, though. He preaches more about saving than he does about investing and have even heard him make negative comments towards investing in the stock market, etc. But, he says once you are totally out of debt then all your income is "yours" and you can start stockpiling and become rich. My problem is, how do you grow that money without investing? I mean, if you just "save" $35,000 a year for 20 years, that's $700,000. Not a small amout of money, but it's not wealthy by any means. Even if you put it in a low-return retirement account, you wouldn't be "wealthy" in 20 years. I'm not sure what the typical return is on a retirement account, but the risk is much lower than an index fund which is roughly 10% annual return, so I would imagine the return would be less.

Also, if you don't have debt you don't have a credit score and if you don't have a credit score, how do you get approved for a mortgage?
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Re: Your thoughts on debt.

Post by topher40 » Tue May 29, 2012 9:34 am

You dont need a mortgage, that is DEBT. Pay cash, thats what Dave teaches. If you MUST obtain a mortgage then a 15 yr fixed is the only thing he will tell you is acceptable. Investing is simple jkwith Daves plan, good growth stock mutual funds. You still play the market but with less risk because your not invested in any single stick. Not sure if you can get 710 AM but he is on there every morning around 9-11. Listen, learn, even buy some of his materials.
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Re: Your thoughts on debt.

Post by Chukar12 » Tue May 29, 2012 10:20 am

This type of question and familiarity with complete strangers on the internet gives me an uneasy feeling. I do suppose that it is your worry Stoneface and not mine and its likely that you will take all of these suggestions with a grain of salt....and since you asked...
Scripted visions of counter culturism, independence, and off grid freedom are marketing bullets fired at the immature and the ignorant. The more mature versions of similar concepts are ads for the lottery or native American gaming that proclaim Betty Sue won $100,375 on the nickel slots and you can too...even if you are so fat that you can't walk, we will get you a scooter.
If your rush to a lifestyle disregards your accountability for the debt and responsibilities you already owe and nature's law that demands that you work now while you are young and strong, because you will get old and weak, your long term plans of independence will be for naught, because you will be at the mercy of the system in one way, shape or form. One of the best ideas I heard for a guy with a mindset that I suspect yours might be...is to head to the oil fields and bust your tail to roll up to break even and maybe some working capital.
It is my belief that entertainer, athlete and entrepeneur wealth is poison to a weak mind. Your first thought should be what can you do that is productive. If that is training dogs, trimming trees, finishing concrete or isolating alleles; and it keeps your interest, it is all work and it adds to the greater good. From there you build a lifestyle that is within the means that your talent and effort provide. Debt can be a tool that used responsibly and within the scope of a solid business or personal plan provides needed support. For the irresponsible it buys really bitchin boats, vacations, time off work to find yourself and breast augmentations. Only you know if you can handle debt Stoneface, because only you know what you will do with it and about it.

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Re: Your thoughts on debt.

Post by ezzy333 » Tue May 29, 2012 10:54 am

Exactly right Chukar. Several ways to explain it I think, one is debt is ok for something you NEED, not for something you WANT. Other thing is you have to have the inteligence to know you can make more with that money than you are paying to use it. No one ever go rich without debt and investing.

Examples are all arounf us. Farmers wouldn't exist if they didn't have debt. Businesses wouldn't exist without debt. People who want to work without debt are 8 to 4 people and then it is hard. But always go back to what i said, do you need it and can I make more than I am spending for the money I am borrowing.

People who think they can save themselves to great wealth are just as foolish as the people who live on credit. Both have little to look forward to but are instead living strickly in what do I have today.

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Re: Your thoughts on debt.

Post by RoostersMom » Tue May 29, 2012 11:37 am

Stoneface wrote:I've been doing some pretty intense studying on Dave Ramsey since the first mention of him on this thread. The guy is amazing. He's like the Warren Buffett fo personal finance. I dig his zero-based budget, envelope system and those baby steps. I like that he doesn't sugar coat it as easy and actually says you should work hard - "Live like no one else, so you can live like no one else." What a concept: work hard now so you don't have to work hard later. Revelation. ;)

I do have a question, though. He preaches more about saving than he does about investing and have even heard him make negative comments towards investing in the stock market, etc. But, he says once you are totally out of debt then all your income is "yours" and you can start stockpiling and become rich. My problem is, how do you grow that money without investing? I mean, if you just "save" $35,000 a year for 20 years, that's $700,000. Not a small amout of money, but it's not wealthy by any means. Even if you put it in a low-return retirement account, you wouldn't be "wealthy" in 20 years. I'm not sure what the typical return is on a retirement account, but the risk is much lower than an index fund which is roughly 10% annual return, so I would imagine the return would be less.

Also, if you don't have debt you don't have a credit score and if you don't have a credit score, how do you get approved for a mortgage?
Good Dave questions! He does preach investing - AFTER debt is paid off and after saving for emergency funding (3-6 mos of your expenses) and I think while you're funding your kid's college and before your house is paid off. He recommends investing 15% in your Roth IRA. It compounds pretty quickly. He recommends growth stock mutual funds - and he averages no less than 12%, even in the past couple of years (so he says). Once you're debt free, you can save a heck of a lot more and put more into investments. He firmly believes you should know what you're investing in... and you should understand it all! You can get as sophisticated as you want. He is also a big real estate guy - he likes to invest in that.

On the debt question - so, you'd rather be in debt so you can maintain a credit score? If you do a good job with money, you can find a mortgage company that will work with you. I doubt very many of them won't loan to you if you have 50% of the purchase price saved up. I've had no trouble with my loan on our house but we've only been debt free for the past 6 months - but we did refinance to a 15 year and my credit score was fine. We had a lot of debt (trucks, CC's, student loan, personal loan, etc.) before starting the plan. The major change I make with the Dave plan is that I also have a separate account for my dog savings (vet bills). I've needed it quite a few times - once (pre-Dave) we had a really, really big bill, but we finally got it paid off, now I don't worry anymore, the money has been saved and is there in case of an emergency.

I couldn't be a bigger fan - his plan has totally changed our life - we are so much better off now than we were before and we don't make any more than we used to - we just manage it a heck of a lot better. I really like his "make your money behave" and his "only children need instant gratification, it takes an adult to delay pleasure." I used to think I needed every cool dog/hunting gadget out there - now I save up and pay cash - we don't even have a credit card anymore! I listen to his archives on the computer all the time while I'm working. If you can live this way, it sure can make a difference. Both of my nephews have bought into the Dave concept and are attending college with no student loans.

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