Gun Dog Forum

Once again this morning, IRS official Lois Lerner takes the 5th, in essence, flipping off the US TAXPAYER! Reminicent of MOB HEARINGS, LL took the 5th every time she was asked a question. John/Jane public, after being the target of IRS actions or inaction, now cannot even find out the truth. This agency, now in charge of our health care, cannot be allowed to run wild! The targeting of conservatives, altho horrifying, is the least of our worries. Where will they go next? Who will they be after? Are you on the wrong side of the tracks? What do you think, will the IRS quietly reign themselves in OR will they continue, covertly, at an accelerated pace? What other agencies /public servants do we have to worry about, or, is this JUST another ''PHONY SCANDAL?''

What is the back story?.. Is she responding to questions about her actions, or the agency actions. If hers, then the fifth may apply. She is a citizen. The targeting of conservatives ignores the targeting of liberals, communists, white folk, black folk, libertarians, people with and without money. And if the targeting was justified, is it still targeting?
The IRS targets everyone they can get money from. It's their job. The tax collector has never been a popular person. Necessary, but not popular. And her fifth amendment rights are just as important as your second amendment rights.

It's very concerning. The IRS has been politicized, has targeted conservative and religious groups, along with high profile citizens who challenge or criticize the current administration.

We live in a very scary time.

DougB wrote:Take a breath. In . Let it out slowly.What is the back story?.. Is she responding to questions about her actions, or the agency actions. If hers, then the fifth may apply. She is a citizen. The targeting of conservatives ignores the targeting of liberals, communists, white folk, black folk, libertarians, people with and without money. And if the targeting was justified, is it still targeting? The IRS targets everyone they can get money from. It's their job. The tax collector has never been a popular person. Necessary, but not popular. And her fifth amendment rights are just as important as your second amendment rights.

Don't be patronizing. The targeting by any body's measure is dramatically skewed to conservative groups. It is the IRS's job to regulate and collect taxes fairly, if in the course of doing your job you have done that without cause for reproach you do not need to take the 5th ammendment.

That fluoride in the water deal still has me upset.

She already pleaded the fifth and had no intentions of talking this time, it was a publicity stunt.

.

The targeting of conservatives ignores the targeting of liberals, communists, white folk, black folk, libertarians, people with and without money. And----IF----the targeting was justified, is it still targeting?

#2 statement is always twist or reword the topic, so it is not even close to the truth! Name ONE other group that was either held up on their request for tax exemption OR DENIED!!

The IRS targets everyone they can get money from. It's their job. The tax collector has never been a popular person.

I didn't realize that I had been TARGETED when I received my tax bill, but, YES, collecting taxes is, THEIR JOB


Necessary, but not popular. And her fifth amendment rights are just as important as your second amendment rights.

We finally agree on one point,her 5th amendment rights are important! Isn't she lucky to be living here in the US of A, where she can expound on her virtues and go on to lie and cheat numerous groups of their FIRST AMENDMENT RIGHTS, while claiming to be doing her WELL PAID, FEDERAL JOB!!

Tie flyer and who else it might apply to,, You may like an unedited version better but you are going to have to go some place else to like it. We have a few rules here that you agreed to when you joined and we expect you and everyone else to live up to their word. This is a gun dog forum and we did make a concession to the members who wanted some place to post off topic material. We provided that. But that does not in any way say you can post stupid insulting comments about other members or insult them because of what they think. Posts will be civil and on topic. Otherwise find some where else to spend your time and make your comments. Simple as that!

I may edit a post or two of someone's to try and give them an example of what polite conversation is like. But I am not here to edit everything that is posted by anyone, so after a couple of times we can and will find other ways to take care of the problem.

Ezzy

nikegundog wrote:She already pleaded the fifth and had no intentions of talking this time, it was a publicity stunt.

Yes, It was a planned DOG AND PONY show!! Now, throw Lois Lerner in jail for contempt of congress and see the media play out the rest of the WAR ON WOMEN SHOW!! The three ring circus that followed---Issa versus Cummings was also planned, If you want to get into the spotlight, scream louder than the other guy.

The IG appointed to study this reported that there were problems, but targeting of only conservative groups was not the problem.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/ ... story.html

An inspector general’s audit in May said that the IRS had wrongly targeted nonprofit groups but found no evidence of political motivation. It faulted mismanagement and a lack of clear directions for handling applications.

Cummings criticized Issa’s conclusions Tuesday, saying: “While there is certainly evidence of mismanagement at the IRS, this partisan Republican staff report identifies absolutely no evidence to support the central Republican allegations in this investigation — that the White House directed this activity or that it was politically motivated.”

http://billmoyers.com/2013/07/09/how-th ... s-scandal/

And they would have gotten away with it, too, had their narrative had the benefit of being true. But now, almost two months later, we know that in fact the IRS targeted lots of different kinds of groups, not just conservative ones; that the only organizations whose tax-exempt statuses were actually denied were progressive ones; that many of the targeted conservative groups legitimately crossed the line; that the IG’s report was limited to only Tea Party groups at congressional Republicans’ request; and that the White House was in no way involved in the targeting and didn’t even know about it until shortly before the public did.

I watched some of the hearings, listened to some of the testimony. I have no love for the IRS, but it appears that the rules governing these specific "targeted" groups have been under enforced for years, based on IRS rules that led to a relaxing of enforcement and violation of actual law, and has led to abuses by many of these organizations. The problem is not that some were denied(not Tea Party though), but that so many were approved.

Doug,
That information is spun. It does not give figures, the held up and or denied applications are multiples to 1 over progressive groups...and of course it does not find evidence linking it to the white house, and if it does (and I doubt there is any evidence to Obama) the only way to know that for sure would be through evidence and testimony by Lerner, the person who resigned and still takes the fifth. If the buck stopped there, fine and that may be the case with her reticences to testify, afraid she may implicate herself in a crime.

I know that the information was spun. By both sides. I understood that the AG conducting the study was a republican appointee, and he was the one who acknowledged that groups from all political sides were looked at. The media was used well here to inflame one direction while ignoring the other.

I guess I don't understand why people are surprised when our politicians are caught with dirty hands. There isn't really much in the history books to support the belief that our politicians are superior people with a high moral sense and that they actually believe in ethical conduct (they may have a different definition of "ethical").

DougB wrote:I know that the information was spun. By both sides. I understood that the AG conducting the study was a republican appointee, and he was the one who acknowledged that groups from all political sides were looked at. The media was used well here to inflame one direction while ignoring the other.

I guess I don't understand why people are surprised when our politicians are caught with dirty hands. There isn't really much in the history books to support the belief that our politicians are superior people with a high moral sense and that they actually believe in ethical conduct (they may have a different definition of "ethical").

This isn't the politians as of yet but rather the career government workers that are insulated from the public. Looks like they got their orders from the politicians and that is what is being investigated. Don't think anyone still beliefs there wasn't a problem when the director of the IRS admitted there was.

ezzy333 wrote:

DougB wrote:I know that the information was spun. By both sides. I understood that the AG conducting the study was a republican appointee, and he was the one who acknowledged that groups from all political sides were looked at. The media was used well here to inflame one direction while ignoring the other.

I guess I don't understand why people are surprised when our politicians are caught with dirty hands. There isn't really much in the history books to support the belief that our politicians are superior people with a high moral sense and that they actually believe in ethical conduct (they may have a different definition of "ethical").

This isn't the politians as of yet but rather the career government workers that are insulated from the public. Looks like they got their orders from the politicians and that is what is being investigated. Don't think anyone still beliefs there wasn't a problem when the director of the IRS admitted there was.

This is the other, UNSPOKEN,----ENTITLEMENT PROGRAM! The Federal Worker, our CIVIL Servants, who cannot be fired. Lie, cheat and steal, they cannot be fired. They make the news, every day, one agency or the other! We OWE them a lifetime job with BONUSES!

Rod W wrote:

ezzy333 wrote:

DougB wrote:I know that the information was spun. By both sides. I understood that the AG conducting the study was a republican appointee, and he was the one who acknowledged that groups from all political sides were looked at. The media was used well here to inflame one direction while ignoring the other.

I guess I don't understand why people are surprised when our politicians are caught with dirty hands. There isn't really much in the history books to support the belief that our politicians are superior people with a high moral sense and that they actually believe in ethical conduct (they may have a different definition of "ethical").

This isn't the politians as of yet but rather the career government workers that are insulated from the public. Looks like they got their orders from the politicians and that is what is being investigated. Don't think anyone still beliefs there wasn't a problem when the director of the IRS admitted there was.

This is the other, UNSPOKEN,----ENTITLEMENT PROGRAM! The Federal Worker, our CIVIL Servants, who cannot be fired. Lie, cheat and steal, they cannot be fired. They make the news, every day, one agency or the other! We OWE them a lifetime job with BONUSES!

Where did you get the idea they can't be fired?

Rod W wrote:This is the other, UNSPOKEN,----ENTITLEMENT PROGRAM! The Federal Worker, our CIVIL Servants, who cannot be fired. Lie, cheat and steal, they cannot be fired. They make the news, every day, one agency or the other! We OWE them a lifetime job with BONUSES!

Ummm... not to throw my 2 cents into the ring... but the next time you see a police officer or a fireman in the headlines for getting killed while performing their duties... please remember they were public servants. Everyone hates them until they need them... our government is too big.. problem is, we are not cutting the freeloaders on SSI & Welfare and 10 dozen other entitlement programs... there are almost always examples of both good and bad, legitimate and fraud in every facet of public service... I don't know of many welfare recipients that have to get spit on, kicked in the groin, bitten and exposed to hepatitis to get their hand out... and the public servants I know can and do get fired, second guessed, sued and torn to shreds in the media and courts... please remember that when you bash them all in one group... People are people... in all walks of life and in every country... there are good and bad.

And for the record... Lerner waived her right to plea the fifth when she opened her mouth on record and said she didn't commit any crimes... she is now subject to cross examination and should be held in contempt. Fire away...

SHORTFAT wrote:

Rod W wrote:This is the other, UNSPOKEN,----ENTITLEMENT PROGRAM! The Federal Worker, our CIVIL Servants, who cannot be fired. Lie, cheat and steal, they cannot be fired. They make the news, every day, one agency or the other! We OWE them a lifetime job with BONUSES!

Ummm... not to throw my 2 cents into the ring... but the next time you see a police officer or a fireman in the headlines for getting killed while performing their duties... please remember they were public servants. Everyone hates them until they need them... our government is too big.. problem is, we are not cutting the freeloaders on SSI & Welfare and 10 dozen other entitlement programs... there are almost always examples of both good and bad, legitimate and fraud in every facet of public service... I don't know of many welfare recipients that have to get spit on, kicked in the groin, bitten and exposed to hepatitis to get their hand out... and the public servants I know can and do get fired, second guessed, sued and torn to shreds in the media and courts... please remember that when you bash them all in one group... People are people... in all walks of life and in every country... there are good and bad.

And for the record... Lerner waived her right to plea the fifth when she opened her mouth on record and said she didn't commit any crimes... she is now subject to cross examination and should be held in contempt. Fire away...

No shots from me. You are absolutely right.

I don';t think anyone in public office should be allowed to plead the 5th on matter's concerning the running of the office. Personnel matter, sure. If she did something wrong doing her job, the truth needs to be known.

DonF wrote:I don';t think anyone in public office should be allowed to plead the 5th on matter's concerning the running of the office. Personnel matter, sure. If she did something wrong doing her job, the truth needs to be known.

Very true but everyone has the right to not incriminate themselves.

I agree 100% on the excessive giveaway programs, I believe I stated Fed Workers but since you brought up Firefighters and Police, I believe that most, really like them! I too, believe that anyone in an administrative role, in Gov., should not have the opportunity to take the 5th! If one feeds off the taxpayer why not be accountable?

If one feeds off the taxpayer why not be accountable?

Because we have a constitution

ezzy333 wrote:

If one feeds off the taxpayer why not be accountable?

Because we have a constitution

Good Answer! And we are very happy that we do have a constitution, I wonder if it has EVER, been changed or amended?

Rod W wrote:

ezzy333 wrote:

If one feeds off the taxpayer why not be accountable?

Because we have a constitution

Good Answer! And we are very happy that we do have a constitution, I wonder if it has EVER, been changed or amended?

Yep, when ever needed.

Ezzy

Rod W wrote:

ezzy333 wrote:

If one feeds off the taxpayer why not be accountable?

Because we have a constitution

Good Answer! And we are very happy that we do have a constitution, I wonder if it has EVER, been changed or amended?

There have only been 27 amendments ratified, the last in 1992 and it had been pending for 200 years, So amendments are rare as was designed. Of more concern to me are the changes the Judiciary has made in their interpretation of the Constitution in the name of nationwide social justice. These number in the 1,000s. Some, although wrong, have been good for the country. Most have just led to more federal interference in our lifes.

There have only been 27 amendments ratified, the last in 1992 and it had been pending for 200 years, So amendments are rare as was designed. Of more concern to me are the changes the Judiciary has made in their interpretation of the Constitution in the name of nationwide social justice. These number in the 1,000s. Some, although wrong, have been good for the country. Most have just led to more federal interference in our lifes.

+1!!

Charllie

Neil wrote:

Rod W wrote:

If one feeds off the taxpayer why not be accountable?

Good Answer! And we are very happy that we do have a constitution, I wonder if it has EVER, been changed or amended?

There have only been 27 amendments ratified, the last in 1992 and it had been pending for 200 years, So amendments are rare as was designed. Of more concern to me are the changes the Judiciary has made in their interpretation of the Constitution in the name of nationwide social justice. These number in the 1,000s. Some, although wrong, have been good for the country. Most have just led to more federal interference in our lifes.

I agree

?[/quote] Because we have a constitution[/quote]

Good Answer! And we are very happy that we do have a constitution, I wonder if it has EVER, been changed or amended?[/quote]

Yep, when ever needed.

I just read this----- None of the first 10 amendments changed anything. They were added to clarify the ---INTENT, of the founding fathers----Perhaps, we need the opinion of our Community Agitator in Chief, the Constitutional Lawyer

Rod W wrote:?

Because we have a constitution[/quote]

Good Answer! And we are very happy that we do have a constitution, I wonder if it has EVER, been changed or amended?[/quote]

Yep, when ever needed.

I just read this----- None of the first 10 amendments changed anything. They were added to clarify the ---INTENT, of the founding fathers----Perhaps, we need the opinion of our Community Agitator in Chief, the Constitutional Lawyer[/quote]
The amendments which at the time were not called the bill of right were agreed to as a condition to get MA to pass it. These they felt were needed to protect the individual as well as the states rights. I think we all agree it was an excellent idea.

What I find amazing is how we may not profile and target drivers on our streets or passengers at our airports, yet the IRS from all accounts and facts presented did exactly that by pursuing action against conservative groups over liberal groups at an undeniably grossly unfavorable ratio. How would laws governing profiling not apply?? Why are these folks not being indited for unlawful profiling which we do not allow in the other branches of government?