Liberalism

[birddog1968]

[attachment=-1]uploadfromtaptalk1400684203757.jpg[/attachment]

[diplomat019]

Thats not liberalism. Id consider myself a liberal. I believe in liberty and equality, free and fair elections, civil rights, freedom of the press, freedom of religion, free trade, and private property. More state rights and less federal power. Our founding fathers were true liberals. What your posting isnt true liberalism. Its this new age leftist democrat.

[ezzy333]

Thats not liberalism. Id consider myself a liberal. I believe in liberty and equality, free and fair elections, civil rights, freedom of the press, freedom of religion, free trade, and private property. More state rights and less federal power. Our founding fathers were true liberals. What your posting isnt true liberalism. Its this new age leftist democrat.

And what you are posting is conservatism, plain and simple. Congrats on a sensible outlook.

[diplomat019]

ezzy. i dont know if your taking a dig at me or not. its kinda a sideways comment. anyway to respond to your response, yes and no. some of it falls under what a conservative believes. but how can you tell an american citizen who pays taxes who they can and cant marry and say you stand for liberty and equality? Thats just one example. And that is one of the biggest talking point from a conservative. to each his own. My main point was that the picture wasnt defining true liberalism. That picture stands for the gimme-state we have.

[Ez4]

The definition of the 'classical liberalism' and the contemporary one we use (in media, politics, etc) today are very different, nearly opposite. The picture above matches a negative contemporary definition of the liberal/progressive in America, but not 'classical liberalism'.

Understanding that, I can't say I disagree with him.

[diplomat019]

Ez 4- exactly. The true liberalism is not what that picture is. People think liberalism means entitlements and handouts with big govt holding ur hand thru life. Its the total opposite.

[RichK]

Thats not liberalism. Id consider myself a liberal. I believe in liberty and equality, free and fair elections, civil rights, freedom of the press, freedom of religion, free trade, and private property. More state rights and less federal power. Our founding fathers were true liberals. What your posting isnt true liberalism. Its this new age leftist democrat.

And what you are posting is conservatism, plain and simple. Congrats on a sensible outlook.

Correct.

[UglyD]

People think what people see

[ezzy333]

Ez 4- exactly. The true liberalism is not what that picture is. People think liberalism means entitlements and handouts with big govt holding ur hand thru life. Its the total opposite.

You are describing libertarian and not liberalism. Those are on the opposite ends of the spectrum.

As far as marriage goes, that is a religious thing that dates back to Biblical times. I have no problem with a civil union or whatever you want to call it but it isn't marriage. Since in times past marriage was all there was the term got to be used to describe something related but not actual marriage. Somewhat like every one calling a tissue Kleenex, but they aren't. Pretty much the same but still they aren't Kleenex, same as a civil union isn't marriage.

[diplomat019]

a libertarian is a classic liberal.

[birddogger]

a libertarian is a classic liberal.

No way, at least not what liberalism has become but call it what you want. As far as marriage is concerned, Ezzy is dead on and that is not an opinion but a fact!!

Charlie

[diplomat019]

your not reading what I'm writing. if you research what a classic liberal is and TRUE liberalism, it is not what you are referring to. our founding fathers were liberal. do you not agree for what they stood for? what people refer to as "liberal" is not what a true liberal is. and a classic liberal and a libertarian are virtually the same. thats a fact

[Ez4]

"Classical Liberalism" - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classical_liberalism

[birddogger]

So you are saying the founding fathers were libertarians (the same meaning as liberals) and gave us that form of government? I don't think so.

Charlie

[birddogger]

"Classical Liberalism" - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classical_liberalism

And what I am saying is that liberalism has become something it was never meant to be and it is not the same as libertarian. Besides that, everybody knows what is meant when liberalism is referred to today.

Charlie

[diplomat019]

Thanks ez4

[birddogger]

While we are into definitions, you may also want to look up the definition of marriage.

Charlie

[MGIII]

While we are into definitions, you may also want to look up the definition of marriage.

Charlie

http://i.word.com/idictionary/marriage

Main Entry: mar·riage
Pronunciation: \ˈmer-ij, ˈma-rij\
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English mariage, from Anglo-French, from marier to marry
Date: 14th century
1 a (1) : the state of being united to a person of the opposite sex as husband or wife in a consensual and contractual relationship recognized by law (2) : the state of being united to a person of the same sex in a relationship like that of a traditional marriage <same-sex marriage> b : the mutual relation of married persons : wedlock c : the institution whereby individuals are joined in a marriage 2 : an act of marrying or the rite by which the married status is effected ; especially : the wedding ceremony and attendant festivities or formalities 3 : an intimate or close union <the marriage of painting and poetry — J. T. Shawcross>

[birddogger]

OH please! That is not only absurd but is not the official/correct defenition and you know it. That is LIBERALISM at it's finest. :roll:

Charlie

[MGIII]

OH please! That is not only absurd but is not the official/correct defenition and you know it. That is LIBERALISM at it's finest. :roll:

Charlie

Haha. I just copied and pasted from that site. Times and definitions are a changing I guess.

[birddogger]

OH please! That is not only absurd but is not the official/correct defenition and you know it. That is LIBERALISM at it's finest. :roll:

Charlie

Haha. I just copied and pasted from that site. Times and definitions are a changing I guess.

Still doesn't make it right but that was my point.

Thanks,
Charlie

[birddogger]

Oh, BTW, you got me.

Charlie

[DougB]

a libertarian is a classic liberal.

No way, at least not what liberalism has become but call it what you want. As far as marriage is concerned, Ezzy is dead on and that is not an opinion but a fact!!

Charlie

And thats your opinion.

One of the problems with labeling people as "liberal" or "conservative' is that people are complex and the label changes depending on the topic, time, and whose ox is getting gored. These labels seem to reflect the left and right extremes of politics, when most people fall into the "moderate" category of each party. Moderate repubs are probably closer in beliefs to moderate libs than to Tea Party types but seem to get beaten down by the extremes. Unfortunately, the extreme groups seem to have money and are driving each end of the political debate. But then, money is free speech and businesses are people, which explains the Bloomberg effect and the Kock effect on our lives. :roll: :roll:

As for marriage, the changing laws have no effect on my life, and probably not yours. Why get upset over the changes. The law allows same sex marriage, but does not require it. Things change over time, and marriage among humans has had a lot of forms over the years. Current marriage is a set of legal principals established over time to define relationships, responsibilities, and property rights. A contract that has changed over the centuries. The wedding ceremony was just a way of telling your friends, neighbors and others to keep your hands off a woman as she was some mans property already. Now, its become a Hollywood musical production

http://theweek.com/article/index/228541 ... -centuries

The idea of marriage as a sexually exclusive, romantic union between one man and one woman is a relatively recent development. Until two centuries ago, said Harvard historian Nancy Cott, "monogamous households were a tiny, tiny portion" of the world population, found in "just Western Europe and little settlements in North America."

Until the 13th century, male-bonding ceremonies were common in churches across the Mediterranean. Apart from the couples' gender, these events were almost indistinguishable from other marriages of the era.

What goes around comes around, apparently.

Besides that, everybody knows what is meant when liberalism is referred to today.

I disagree with this. With the exception of the extreme wings of each party, liberals can not agree with each other on what is liberal, nor can conservatives agree with each other on what they believe in. I think a liberal defines "conservative" as evil, and a conservative defines "liberal" as heresy . Which is interesting when you talk to a person who has some liberal views and some conservative views.

[birddogger]

The laws are what they are and we have to abide by them but it doen't make them always right. Same sex marriage goes against everything that is natural, wholesome, healthy and sacred whether it affects my life or not. BTW, I have friends, family members and co-workers who are gay and have nothing against them but IT don't have to condone it. I also see teenagers claiming to be gay when they don't even know what life or sex is about yet, but they see hollywood, tv shows and the LIBERAL media, not only promoting it as being perfectly normal and natural but in many cases, being "cool". Our society is in big trouble and I see no end to it. However, I am not going to change anybody's mind on here and nobody is going to change mine. Since this is a gundog forum and this discussion can go nowhere, I am bowing out and will say no more.

Charlie

[Gertie]

"Man will not be free until the last king is hung with the entrails of the last priest." What am I? Liberal, conservative, libertarian, or just someone who believes that all of the above are stupid titles that pigeonhole people into boxes that make it real easy for folks to judge others and yet to not really think for themselves.

[diplomat019]

charlie- i bowed out a while ago lol. you had a nice run tho haha

id like to speak on behalf of the whole thread. lets shut this thang down and before we start to sound like the dog food threads lol.

ENJOY MEMORIAL DAY WEEKEND!

[birddogger]

charlie- i bowed out a while ago lol. you had a nice run tho haha

id like to speak on behalf of the whole thread. lets shut this thang down and before we start to sound like the dog food threads lol.

ENJOY MEMORIAL DAY WEEKEND!

Enjoy yours too!!

Charlie