Identifying the Enemy

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greg jacobs
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Re: Identifying the Enemy

Post by greg jacobs » Tue Jun 28, 2016 5:59 am

++++1.

Thank you
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Re: Identifying the Enemy

Post by cjhills » Tue Jun 28, 2016 6:22 am

greg jacobs wrote:++++1.

Thank you
Greg J
Reminds me of a old news paper comic strip named "Pogo Possum". Pogo's favorite saying was "we have met the enemy and it is us"
One thing about the "Donald" is nobody has a clue what he believes in because he will say anything to get your vote. He is a firm believer in litigation. He is a racist and he would sell your 2nd amendment rights in a heartbeat to get your vote.
Nobody wants to pay for a wall on the Mexican border, banning travel is a 250 year step backwards, nobody wants to deport the illegals, Where would all the cheap labor come from? Who would clean his hotel rooms?
IMO. do not waste your time on PMs.................................Cj

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Re: Identifying the Enemy

Post by ckirsch » Tue Jun 28, 2016 7:33 am

I guess some of us willing to take a chance on Trump, as opposed to supporting corrupt, greedy, dishonest, vindictive Hillary Clinton, who has displayed over and over her lack of qualifications to be president. Benghazi, emails, bimbo eruptions, her bogus foundation, Vince Foster, abusive treatment of SS personal assigned to protect her, the thousand percent returns on cattle futures, etc, etc. Seems that at some point most folks would want to get off the Hillary bus, but apparently there are plenty who are so partisan they're willing to ignore her criminal behavior.

Rest assured that many of us have pulled our heads out of the sand and are concerned about illegal immigration, and the accelerated importation of potential Muslim terrorists. We've seen enough instances of those benefitting from our hospitality turning around and killing Americans to realize it's a problem. The racist card is so worn out it doesn't merit a response.

You contend that Trump might sell our gun rights for votes; Hillary has already been there and done that, but that doesn't bother you. Your side will take an incident where a second-generation Muslim American, raised by a radical father who publicly supports Islamic terrorists, goes into a nightclub and murders fifty people while proclaiming allegiance to ISIS, and then rather than denouncing it as what it obviously is, you instead attempt to use it to take my rights away.

Stunning to find this sentiment on a hunting forum. We're doomed.

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Re: Identifying the Enemy

Post by ezzy333 » Tue Jun 28, 2016 11:59 am

cjhills wrote:
greg jacobs wrote:++++1.

Thank you
Greg J
Reminds me of a old news paper comic strip named "Pogo Possum". Pogo's favorite saying was "we have met the enemy and it is us"
One thing about the "Donald" is nobody has a clue what he believes in because he will say anything to get your vote. He is a firm believer in litigation. He is a racist and he would sell your 2nd amendment rights in a heartbeat to get your vote.
Nobody wants to pay for a wall on the Mexican border, banning travel is a 250 year step backwards, nobody wants to deport the illegals, Where would all the cheap labor come from? Who would clean his hotel rooms?
IMO. do not waste your time on PMs.................................Cj
Who in the world told you nobody would want those things? Seems that in just the last few months an awful lot of people said they agree with him. And have to admit I agree with most of what he says even though I wish it was someone else saying it. Of course all of the Democrats hate it and many of the Republicans also, since he doesn't need their money and they have no way of controlling him which would upset Washing ton and the hold the incumbents have trying to preserve their power. And boy, do we ever need to change the people plus the way DC operates.

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Re: Identifying the Enemy

Post by greg jacobs » Tue Jun 28, 2016 1:28 pm

Several of you just continue to bash Trump. I don't have to agree with everything he says. I know where Hillary takes the country and what she will continue to do to the Supreme Court. This is about Hillary. Do you think she will fight for your gun rights, civil liberties, and the constitution as it was written.

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Re: Identifying the Enemy

Post by nikegundog » Tue Jun 28, 2016 2:40 pm

greg jacobs wrote:Several of you just continue to bash Trump. I don't have to agree with everything he says. I know where Hillary takes the country and what she will continue to do to the Supreme Court. This is about Hillary. Do you think she will fight for your gun rights, civil liberties, and the constitution as it was written.
I thought the thread was about identifying the Enemy, and in those regards I don't think Trump nor Hillary will fight for my gun rights, civil liberties or the Constitution. Trump has been a lifelong Democrat (until the recent flip-flop), who was in favor of gun control (longer waiting periods as well as gun bans), abortions and Government spying on our lives. Trump has done a complete 180 on several issues in the last few years.:roll: I can't recall anyone I personally have known that has completely flip flopped on so many issues so late in their life, doesn't even seem to be believable. Watching the debates he couldn't even remember which side of some issues he was on that day. It's hard to imagine having two more worthless candidates, and it amazes me the the republican's would run a democrat for a candidate.

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Re: Identifying the Enemy

Post by ckirsch » Tue Jun 28, 2016 4:19 pm

Trump is probably not the first choice for many of us, but if you can't see that he poses far less of a threat to the liberties we enjoy than does Hillary, you're not trying very hard.

He's often more abrasive than necessary, but I'll take a successful entrepreneur over a far leftist who has done little other than suckle from the government teat all of her life. I admire him for fighting back, rather than rolling into a fetal position every time he is attacked, as did Bush, Romney, Dole, McCain, and several others. The fact that he is independent of the establishment also gives him some appeal. Finally, it would be refreshing to have someone in there who is more interested in common sense than political correctness.

When it comes to gun rights, Hillary is an avowed enemy of the Second Amendment. You can't get around that. Even if you consider Trump a question mark in that regard, he's clearly better than the alternative.

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Re: Identifying the Enemy

Post by mnaj_springer » Tue Jun 28, 2016 4:37 pm

Trump does not actually care about you or your rights. He's lying through his teeth to get what he wants (there are those sociopathic tendencies showing through). He's not a question mark. It's well known that Trump will change is "stance" (if you can call such flimsy beliefs as such) will change based on the benefit for him, and he's narcissistic enough to believe people are too dumb to notice (there's some evidence that he could be right). He knows nothing of work or the life most of us (us as in the middle class) live because he never has worked. He was given millions of dollars in liquid funds and even more in assets without ever working. Nor does he care to understand and truly empathize with our struggles.

He will most certainly try to pass laws that only benefit the very rich and corporations. And it is likely that he will destroy diplomatic relations.

So here's an idea... what about a split ballot? Vote for all the conservative lawmakers you want. "Protect" your rights that way... and at the top of the ballot, avoid voting for someone who will destroy this country. Vote independent if you must.
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Re: Identifying the Enemy

Post by ckirsch » Tue Jun 28, 2016 4:46 pm

So at his very worst, he might be as bad as Hillary? My understanding is that he was given a million bucks to start with, and he's done ok with that, without having to resort to taking millions upon millions from Muslim dictators and human rights abusers through a "charitable foundation". She's done little to display any empathy for anyone, other than to stoke the fires of racism and class warfare in order to divide and conquer, and she's an avowed enemy of gun rights - no question mark there. She's proven to be a dishonest, greedy leftist who'll stop at nothing to obtain power.

Her hope is that those on the left will look past her lies and corruption. (There's evidence they will.)

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Re: Identifying the Enemy

Post by mnaj_springer » Tue Jun 28, 2016 5:14 pm

Haha at his worst he'll start World War 3 or a nuclear holocaust. At his best he'll line his pockets with your money and blame others for any lack of achievement. And if we lose our gun rights, well he could care less. In fact I don't believe he hunts (but he might if it gets him more votes).

As for the starting with a million dollars rumor. He's the one who said that. And it was probably more like 9 million according to an interview he did. But still, has anyone here been just given a million dollars? AND a deferment from the Vietnam.

I'm not saying vote for Hillary. I'm just saying know who you are voting for.
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Re: Identifying the Enemy

Post by Sharon » Tue Jun 28, 2016 5:23 pm

What a challenge for you Americans. I'm glad I don't have to decide. I can say though that we have gun controls in Canada and it hasn't harmed our hunting rights or opportunities - unless you need an AK47/15 to hunt with.

Anyone wishing to buy a rifle/ shotgun in Canada and/or ammunition must have a valid licence under the Firearms Act.and pass the gun use course. Hunting course also required for a hunting license.
Last edited by Sharon on Tue Jun 28, 2016 6:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Identifying the Enemy

Post by ezzy333 » Tue Jun 28, 2016 5:36 pm

mnaj_springer wrote:Haha at his worst he'll start World War 3 or a nuclear holocaust. At his best he'll line his pockets with your money and blame others for any lack of achievement. And if we lose our gun rights, well he could care less. In fact I don't believe he hunts (but he might if it gets him more votes).

As for the starting with a million dollars rumor. He's the one who said that. And it was probably more like 9 million according to an interview he did. But still, has anyone here been just given a million dollars? AND a deferment from the Vietnam.

I'm not saying vote for Hillary. I'm just saying know who you are voting for.
I will not be voting for anyone but as usual for what they cab do based somewhat on what they have done. Trump was given money which seems better to me than stealing it, suspicion he won't do what he says is better than knowing Hillary won't, but the biggest reason is I will vote for someone that follows the laws and not someone that should be in prison.
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Re: Identifying the Enemy

Post by ezzy333 » Tue Jun 28, 2016 5:38 pm

Sharon wrote:What a challenge for you Americans. I'm glad I don't have to decide. I can say though that we have gun controls in Canada and it hasn't harmed our hunting rights or opportunities - unless you need an AK4715 to hunt with.

Anyone wishing to buy a rifle/ shotgun in Canada and/or ammunition must have a valid licence under the Firearms Act.and pass the gun use course. Hunting course also required for a hunting license.
We can't hunt with those powerful assault weapons as they are too small and low powered to shoot an animal with.
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Re: Identifying the Enemy

Post by mnaj_springer » Tue Jun 28, 2016 5:54 pm

Ezzy, Trump has definitely broken laws and committed fraud. But when one side has lots of money and the other doesn't, settlements are easy to come by. Read up on his "university."
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Re: Identifying the Enemy

Post by ckirsch » Tue Jun 28, 2016 6:23 pm

NEhomer wrote:
ckirsch wrote:Haven't seen riots and flag burning by conservatives at any Sanders or Clinton events, have you?
Why would you? Who would protest against inclusion?
Conservative oppose much, if not all, of what Sanders is selling. I guess some of us are able to figure out that nothing is ever "free". Yet you don't see conservatives displaying hateful or violent behavior at Sanders' events at anywhere near the level displayed by tolerence-preaching lefties at Trump events. Why is that?

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Re: Identifying the Enemy

Post by ckirsch » Tue Jun 28, 2016 6:26 pm

mnaj_springer wrote:Ezzy, Trump has definitely broken laws and committed fraud. But when one side has lots of money and the other doesn't, settlements are easy to come by. Read up on his "university."
An excellent explanation as to why Hillary is not in prison.

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Re: Identifying the Enemy

Post by mnaj_springer » Tue Jun 28, 2016 6:35 pm

ckirsch wrote:
mnaj_springer wrote:Ezzy, Trump has definitely broken laws and committed fraud. But when one side has lots of money and the other doesn't, settlements are easy to come by. Read up on his "university."
An excellent explanation as to why Hillary is not in prison.
I'm not arguing that Hillary is an awful candidate. But you need to open your eyes as to how awful Trump is.
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Re: Identifying the Enemy

Post by nikegundog » Tue Jun 28, 2016 6:50 pm

ezzy333 wrote: I will not be voting for anyone but as usual for what they cab do based somewhat on what they have done. Trump was given money which seems better to me than stealing it, suspicion he won't do what he says is better than knowing Hillary won't, but the biggest reason is I will vote for someone that follows the laws and not someone that should be in prison.
When Trump was called for jury duty, he was a no show, when called for military service, he became a cripple, unfit for service, when investigated for fraud by the attorney general, he donates $$ to the attorney general. :cry: I will not vote for neither scumbag, because they both belong in prison.

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Re: Identifying the Enemy

Post by mask » Tue Jun 28, 2016 6:58 pm

We are voting for the lesser of two evils. If you think Clinton will be better for our country vote for her if not Trump is the only other candidate. Saying Trump is the one that will say anything to get elected would imply Clinton tells nothing but the truth :lol:.

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Re: Identifying the Enemy

Post by mnaj_springer » Tue Jun 28, 2016 7:05 pm

Mask, it does not imply that, but your biases lead you to infer that. Saying one is not mutually exclusive of the other.

So when the question is when one candidate is crooked and the other is a scumbag sociopath, and neither will do anything to end abortion or defend gun rights (either way the NRA will stop it), then how do you decide?
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Re: Identifying the Enemy

Post by mask » Tue Jun 28, 2016 7:54 pm

mnaj_springer wrote:Mask, it does not imply that, but your biases lead you to infer that. Saying one is not mutually exclusive of the other.

So when the question is when one candidate is crooked and the other is a scumbag sociopath, and neither will do anything to end abortion or defend gun rights (either way the NRA will stop it), then how do you decide?
OK but which is which? :lol:

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Re: Identifying the Enemy

Post by cjhills » Tue Jun 28, 2016 8:03 pm

ckirsch wrote:So at his very worst, he might be as bad as Hillary? My understanding is that he was given a million bucks to start with, and he's done ok with that, without having to resort to taking millions upon millions from Muslim dictators and human rights abusers through a "charitable foundation". She's done little to display any empathy for anyone, other than to stoke the fires of racism and class warfare in order to divide and conquer, and she's an avowed enemy of gun rights - no question mark there. She's proven to be a dishonest, greedy leftist who'll stop at nothing to obtain power.

Her hope is that those on the left will look past her lies and corruption. (There's evidence they will.)
Do you have facts to back up these accusations or are you Quoting more NRA rhetoric.
You can read about Mister Trump's speech on his trade policies which will cost the US 3.5 million jobs and raise prices on every thing. Bernie should be his running mate.....Cj

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Re: Identifying the Enemy

Post by ckirsch » Tue Jun 28, 2016 8:40 pm

cjhills wrote:
ckirsch wrote:So at his very worst, he might be as bad as Hillary? My understanding is that he was given a million bucks to start with, and he's done ok with that, without having to resort to taking millions upon millions from Muslim dictators and human rights abusers through a "charitable foundation". She's done little to display any empathy for anyone, other than to stoke the fires of racism and class warfare in order to divide and conquer, and she's an avowed enemy of gun rights - no question mark there. She's proven to be a dishonest, greedy leftist who'll stop at nothing to obtain power.

Her hope is that those on the left will look past her lies and corruption. (There's evidence they will.)
Do you have facts to back up these accusations or are you Quoting more NRA rhetoric.
You can read about Mister Trump's speech on his trade policies which will cost the US 3.5 million jobs and raise prices on every thing. Bernie should be his running mate.....Cj
The facts are there for anyone willing to pull their head out of their "bleep" and see them. You deny that Hillary's foundation has received millions of dollar from less-than-ethical foreigners? You deny that she is anti-gun? You deny that she lied about Benghazi, her emails, the Rose law firm records, that she left the White House broke, that she endured sniper fire, etc. etc.? How much will be enough for you?

Do you have facts to back up your accusations or are you quoting more George Soros rhetoric?

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Re: Identifying the Enemy

Post by nikegundog » Tue Jun 28, 2016 9:38 pm

ckirsch wrote:So at his very worst, he might be as bad as Hillary? My understanding is that he was given a million bucks to start with, and he's done ok with that, without having to resort to taking millions upon millions from Muslim dictators and human rights abusers through a "charitable foundation". She's done little to display any empathy for anyone, other than to stoke the fires of racism and class warfare in order to divide and conquer, and she's an avowed enemy of gun rights - no question mark there. She's proven to be a dishonest, greedy leftist who'll stop at nothing to obtain power.

Her hope is that those on the left will look past her lies and corruption. (There's evidence they will.)
Sure there's the $1 million to start, loan guarantees of ten of millions of dollars, plus the trusts set up for the children, then control of his father's company, never mind his inheritance from the $200 (?) million dollar estate. But I think that is pretty typical of the uneducated voter, they take no time to look at who they are voting for, all that matters is if they have an R or D in front of their name.

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Re: Identifying the Enemy

Post by mhprecht » Tue Jun 28, 2016 10:05 pm

oldbeek wrote:Vote democrat and loose your guns and right to hunt! End of subject. That is what you are up against. If you like hunting, you better back a republican. A left leaning supreme court will destroy the second amendment. Send the price of your last expensive shotgun to the NRA or Donald Trump. NRA patron and sustaining life member.
No...not true. The Congressional Sportsmen's Caucus is bipartisan. Neither confiscating personally owned firearms nor ending our right to hunt is in the platform or either political party.

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Re: Identifying the Enemy

Post by greg jacobs » Wed Jun 29, 2016 1:20 am

Platform??? Of course not. They aren't stupid. But it is definitely Obama, Hillary and Soros's agenda to do so.

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Re: Identifying the Enemy

Post by greg jacobs » Wed Jun 29, 2016 1:42 am

 "But I think that is pretty typical of the uneducated voter" sounds like that echoed down from a pretty high pedestal

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Re: Identifying the Enemy

Post by greg jacobs » Wed Jun 29, 2016 2:00 am

I Struggle to understand how a "gun"dog enthusiast can have a "progressive" mindset.

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Re: Identifying the Enemy

Post by Max2 » Wed Jun 29, 2016 4:17 am

greg jacobs wrote:I Struggle to understand how a "gun"dog enthusiast can have a "progressive" mindset.
I know ! I know !
..... highly educated :D
Kinda like when Barry went on the tv show with the woman in the bath tub of fruit loops or what ever she was swimming in.
Nothing wrong with a good political debate but I must say I dislike the attacks on one another. & not the politicians but each other. Everyone can have their "own" opinion . I kind of get a kick out of the politicians beat'n on each other. :D

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Re: Identifying the Enemy

Post by cjhills » Wed Jun 29, 2016 6:31 am

ckirsch wrote:
cjhills wrote:
ckirsch wrote:So at his very worst, he might be as bad as Hillary? My understanding is that he was given a million bucks to start with, and he's done ok with that, without having to resort to taking millions upon millions from Muslim dictators and human rights abusers through a "charitable foundation". She's done little to display any empathy for anyone, other than to stoke the fires of racism and class warfare in order to divide and conquer, and she's an avowed enemy of gun rights - no question mark there. She's proven to be a dishonest, greedy leftist who'll stop at nothing to obtain power.

Her hope is that those on the left will look past her lies and corruption. (There's evidence they will.)
Do you have facts to back up these accusations or are you Quoting more NRA rhetoric.
You can read about Mister Trump's speech on his trade policies which will cost the US 3.5 million jobs and raise prices on every thing. Bernie should be his running mate.....Cj
The facts are there for anyone willing to pull their head out of their "bleep" and see them. You deny that Hillary's foundation has received millions of dollar from less-than-ethical foreigners? You deny that she is anti-gun? You deny that she lied about Benghazi, her emails, the Rose law firm records, that she left the White House broke, that she endured sniper fire, etc. etc.? How much will be enough for you?

Do you have facts to back up your accusations or are you quoting more George Soros rhetoric?
Did I deny any of your accusations? Show me the proof.
You can read Donald Trumps trade policy speech from yesterday. Most republicans and all economists agree that his policies will cost jobs and raise prices.
When you have daddy's money and a army of lawyers backing you, it is pretty easy to bully people who do not have that advantage. Not so easy in the real world.......................Cj

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Re: Identifying the Enemy

Post by ckirsch » Wed Jun 29, 2016 7:15 am

Better to succeed with "daddy's" money than that taken from dictators supporting Islamic terrorism, while in office.

You apparently admit that Hillary has proven to be a consistently corrupt and dishonest individual during her many years in politics, yet you continue to support her. Trump wasn't my first choice, but it is what it is, and he's clearly the lesser of two evils. He might be all you say he is, but we know for a fact that she's everything I've described her to be. There's a chance Trump will surpass your expectations. Hillary's had several decades to display her political cards, and has proven to be a criminal.

Springer, give up on the juvenile PM's. I've no interest.

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Re: Identifying the Enemy

Post by NEhomer » Wed Jun 29, 2016 8:23 am

ckirsch wrote:
NEhomer wrote:
ckirsch wrote:Haven't seen riots and flag burning by conservatives at any Sanders or Clinton events, have you?
Why would you? Who would protest against inclusion?
Conservative oppose much, if not all, of what Sanders is selling. I guess some of us are able to figure out that nothing is ever "free". Yet you don't see conservatives displaying hateful or violent behavior at Sanders' events at anywhere near the level displayed by tolerence-preaching lefties at Trump events. Why is that?
I already told you. You didn't read it. Once more...I too admonish the protesters but they are protesting against racism, homophobia and misogyny. Racists, homophobes and misogynists are not being persecuted for their behaviors. Wishing that your tax dollars were spent differently does not stir the same emotions as being relegated to second class citizenry.

...now, turn off your auto-argue program for a moment and simply consider what I said.

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Re: Identifying the Enemy

Post by cjhills » Wed Jun 29, 2016 9:08 am

ckirsch wrote:Better to succeed with "daddy's" money than that taken from dictators supporting Islamic terrorism, while in office.

You apparently admit that Hillary has proven to be a consistently corrupt and dishonest individual during her many years in politics, yet you continue to support her. Trump wasn't my first choice, but it is what it is, and he's clearly the lesser of two evils. He might be all you say he is, but we know for a fact that she's everything I've described her to be. There's a chance Trump will surpass your expectations. Hillary's had several decades to display her political cards, and has proven to be a criminal.

Springer, give up on the juvenile PM's. I've no interest.
Not quite sure I understand your reading skills. Just because I did not disagree, does not mean I agree. I am still waiting for some proof of your accusation.
You can Find out how he made his money. Read the court reports on the Taj in the 90s. How many contractors he put into bankruptcy. Some were my friends. Maybe to some it was good business. He came out smelling like a rose. Read the report on the stocks That sold for thirty five dollars When Trump went public and dropped to penny stocks when he bought his two bankrupt hotels with TRUMP money from himself at grossly inflated prices. He was the buyer and the seller. Also paid himself nearly 5 million to run the corporation into bankruptcy. Again good business? Maybe, but the stockholders did not think so. These are facts not guesses and theories. His defense. I was working for myself.
If this is the man you want leading your party and your country because you think he will save your gun, you are in serious trouble. Just a short time ago he supported gun control. Ezzy says politicians do not like him because they can not control him. That is a scary thought. An out of control egotistical, unethical, bully running our country.
One other thougth if you deport 2 million illegals, most who have been here a long time, who takes care of their children who are citizens of this country by birth..............Cj.

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Re: Identifying the Enemy

Post by mnaj_springer » Wed Jun 29, 2016 7:22 pm

ckirsch wrote:Better to succeed with "daddy's" money than that taken from dictators supporting Islamic terrorism, while in office.

You apparently admit that Hillary has proven to be a consistently corrupt and dishonest individual during her many years in politics, yet you continue to support her. Trump wasn't my first choice, but it is what it is, and he's clearly the lesser of two evils. He might be all you say he is, but we know for a fact that she's everything I've described her to be. There's a chance Trump will surpass your expectations. Hillary's had several decades to display her political cards, and has proven to be a criminal.

Springer, give up on the juvenile PM's. I've no interest.
ckirsch, my PM's were initially about the candidates, until you decided to insult my education level. And now you've done it again.
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Re: Identifying the Enemy

Post by mhprecht » Wed Jun 29, 2016 8:28 pm

greg jacobs wrote:I Struggle to understand how a "gun"dog enthusiast can have a "progressive" mindset.
Easy.

The Republicans have held the House for 20 of the last 22 years and both houses for 16. For 6 years (2001-2007) they owned every single branch of government, Congress, the Courts and the presidency and could have passed anything they chose. What did they choose... from their long, long list of ranted grievances?

Did they deregulate or banish any departments? Not a-one. Did they pass nationwide CCW? Nope, all they did was pass wealth transfers into the open maws of Wall Street, bankers, resource extractors and other parasites.

Then when it all went to crap in 2008, all the vaunted "free-marketeers" were first in line for their taxpayer funded bailouts. The Dallas FED estimated total direct and indirect costs of the bailout at $14 Trillion.

I used to vote Republican without a thought....not anymore.

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Re: Identifying the Enemy

Post by ckirsch » Thu Jun 30, 2016 11:38 am

So Bill Clinton, whose spouse is under investigation by the DOJ, happens to find himself (by coincidence, of course) in his private jet, next to the jet of the Obama cabinet member in charge of the investigation. The two of them have a private meeting, during which they discuss only grandchildren. Does anyone really think that's plausible? Trump might have had business dealings that raise some eyebrows, but he's not used political office for personal gain, nor has he interfered with a DOJ investigation. Hillary provided all of the emails requested, with the understandable exception of the 31,000 that dealt with yoga classes and her daughter's wedding. How could anyone believe that? I suspect most of us could agree that this election will require voters to choose the lesser of two evils. If one values the Second Amendment, legal immigration, a stronger military, and a better response to terrorism, the choice seems fairly simple.

I have to add that I find it interesting that with all that's going on - the fading economy, Islamic terrorism, Zika, the disappearing middle class, etc., the Democrat's primary focus is on letting guys pee in ladies' rooms. Incredible.

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Re: Identifying the Enemy

Post by ckirsch » Thu Jun 30, 2016 12:02 pm

NEhomer wrote: I already told you. You didn't read it. Once more...I too admonish the protesters but they are protesting against racism, homophobia and misogyny. Racists, homophobes and misogynists are not being persecuted for their behaviors. Wishing that your tax dollars were spent differently does not stir the same emotions as being relegated to second class citizenry.

...now, turn off your auto-argue program for a moment and simply consider what I said.
Disagreeing with illegal immigration constitutes racism only in the minds of brainwashed leftists who seek more votes for their party. Acknowledging that men and women should have their own restrooms is common sense, rather than homophobia. Opposition to abortion is classified by misogyny only by those callous enough to support that practice. I would submit that Christians have been demoted to second-class citizenry by the Obama administration in a multitude of ways, and their emotions have indeed been stirred. You can attempt to justify the disruptive, violent behavior by liberals at conservative rallies any way you want to, but an objective observer is able to recognize the difference in tactics, and admit which side typically displays the poorest behavior. My point will be proven in just a few weeks.

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Re: Identifying the Enemy

Post by mnaj_springer » Thu Jun 30, 2016 5:47 pm

Ckirsch, Trump only values anything so far as it can get him more power, so saying he values the Second Amendment and whatnot is just eating the propaganda.

But your comments about where "guys pee" gives away your lack of a diverse life experience. Have you met a transgendered person? Its way more than guys peeing.
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Re: Identifying the Enemy

Post by mask » Thu Jun 30, 2016 6:27 pm

mnaj_springer wrote:Ckirsch, Trump only values anything so far as it can get him more power, so saying he values the Second Amendment and whatnot is just eating the propaganda.

But your comments about where "guys pee" gives away your lack of a diverse life experience. Have you met a transgendered person? Its way more than guys peeing.
Who do you suggest we vote for that will protect second amendment rights and our freedom? Are you transgendered?

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Re: Identifying the Enemy

Post by mnaj_springer » Thu Jun 30, 2016 6:45 pm

mask wrote:
mnaj_springer wrote:Ckirsch, Trump only values anything so far as it can get him more power, so saying he values the Second Amendment and whatnot is just eating the propaganda.

But your comments about where "guys pee" gives away your lack of a diverse life experience. Have you met a transgendered person? Its way more than guys peeing.
Who do you suggest we vote for that will protect second amendment rights and our freedom? Are you transgendered?
I can tell who not to vote for, neither the apparent democratic nor republican candidates.

Are you cisgender?
“Man's mind, once stretched by a new idea, never regains its original dimensions.”
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Re: Identifying the Enemy

Post by ezzy333 » Thu Jun 30, 2016 7:19 pm

mnaj_springer wrote:Ckirsch, Trump only values anything so far as it can get him more power, so saying he values the Second Amendment and whatnot is just eating the propaganda.

But your comments about where "guys pee" gives away your lack of a diverse life experience. Have you met a transgendered person? Its way more than guys peeing.
He is talking about a restroom. Tell us about way more than peeing!
http://www.perfectpedigrees.com/4genview.php?id=144
http://www.perfectpedigrees.com/4genview.php?id=207

It's not how many breaths you have taken but how many times it has been taken away!

Has anyone noticed common sense isn't very common anymore.

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Re: Identifying the Enemy

Post by ezzy333 » Thu Jun 30, 2016 7:22 pm

mnaj_springer wrote:
mask wrote:
mnaj_springer wrote:Ckirsch, Trump only values anything so far as it can get him more power, so saying he values the Second Amendment and whatnot is just eating the propaganda.

But your comments about where "guys pee" gives away your lack of a diverse life experience. Have you met a transgendered person? Its way more than guys peeing.
Who do you suggest we vote for that will protect second amendment rights and our freedom? Are you transgendered?
I can tell who not to vote for, neither the apparent democratic nor republican candidates.

Are you cisgender?
If you aren't going to vote for one of them, you might as well just stay home and bitch about which one wins.
http://www.perfectpedigrees.com/4genview.php?id=144
http://www.perfectpedigrees.com/4genview.php?id=207

It's not how many breaths you have taken but how many times it has been taken away!

Has anyone noticed common sense isn't very common anymore.

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Re: Identifying the Enemy

Post by mnaj_springer » Thu Jun 30, 2016 7:38 pm

Aaahhh Ezzy, you're putting words in my mouth. I never said I wasn't voting. I just made a suggested to a confused fellow forum member.

Also, I could not explain to you what being transgendered is about... Not because I'm not capable of explaining, but rather because your ears are closed to it.
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Re: Identifying the Enemy

Post by ezzy333 » Thu Jun 30, 2016 7:47 pm

mnaj_springer wrote:Aaahhh Ezzy, you're putting words in my mouth. I never said I wasn't voting. I just made a suggested to a confused fellow forum member.

Also, I could not explain to you what being transgendered is about... Not because I'm not capable of explaining, but rather because your ears are closed to it.
My mind is not closed about people who think they should be different than what they are. I do know you can't change gender with a scalpel, just appearance.
http://www.perfectpedigrees.com/4genview.php?id=144
http://www.perfectpedigrees.com/4genview.php?id=207

It's not how many breaths you have taken but how many times it has been taken away!

Has anyone noticed common sense isn't very common anymore.

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Re: Identifying the Enemy

Post by mnaj_springer » Thu Jun 30, 2016 8:04 pm

ezzy333 wrote:
mnaj_springer wrote:Aaahhh Ezzy, you're putting words in my mouth. I never said I wasn't voting. I just made a suggested to a confused fellow forum member.

Also, I could not explain to you what being transgendered is about... Not because I'm not capable of explaining, but rather because your ears are closed to it.
My mind is not closed about people who think they should be different than what they are. I do know you can't change gender with a scalpel, just appearance.
You've identified the issue but backwards. But it also proved my point. Those people ARE different than what they actually are. There's scientific evidence that shows that children can identify their own gender by age 6 or so. Transgender youth identify as the gender opposite of their biological sex as young as six. Tell me, what does a six year old gain by saying that? In fact what do transgender people gain other than having to deal with ignorant people?
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Re: Identifying the Enemy

Post by ezzy333 » Thu Jun 30, 2016 8:41 pm

mnaj_springer wrote:
ezzy333 wrote:
mnaj_springer wrote:Aaahhh Ezzy, you're putting words in my mouth. I never said I wasn't voting. I just made a suggested to a confused fellow forum member.

Also, I could not explain to you what being transgendered is about... Not because I'm not capable of explaining, but rather because your ears are closed to it.
My mind is not closed about people who think they should be different than what they are. I do know you can't change gender with a scalpel, just appearance.
You've identified the issue but backwards. But it also proved my point. Those people ARE different than what they actually are. There's scientific evidence that shows that children can identify their own gender by age 6 or so. Transgender youth identify as the gender opposite of their biological sex as young as six. Tell me, what does a six year old gain by saying that? In fact what do transgender people gain other than having to deal with ignorant people?
Ah, be careful about that ignorant stuff when you are talking about people just as smart as you that don't agree with you. I would guess you haven't read the same opinion that I stated by the top surgeon in DC as well as several others. You can run any test you care too and they will still show the same sex that they were born. I have no doubt about kids and adults feelings but those are feelings and sex is not determined by feelings. Oh, and maybe you can explain why one persons feelings are more important than everyone else's.
http://www.perfectpedigrees.com/4genview.php?id=144
http://www.perfectpedigrees.com/4genview.php?id=207

It's not how many breaths you have taken but how many times it has been taken away!

Has anyone noticed common sense isn't very common anymore.

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Re: Identifying the Enemy

Post by mnaj_springer » Thu Jun 30, 2016 9:14 pm

These people aren't just dealing with feelings. The foundation of identity comes down to our gender. And in our dimorphic society we use gender for nearly everything. But when one's foundation (to their identity) is so unstable, and they are constantly faced with this instability countless times day in and day out, it affects everything.

And "everyone else's feelings," as you put it, are not hurt; they're threatened. But it's not their safety being threatened. It's the fact that they now must respect others rights which they've denied. It's the same thing that happened during women's suffrage and the civil rights movements, and more recently, equal marriage rights. Look how those are viewed now, especially the two former.

And I'm not saying you're dumb. I'm saying you may be less educated or experienced on this topic.
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Re: Identifying the Enemy

Post by NEhomer » Fri Jul 01, 2016 10:37 am

ckirsch wrote:
NEhomer wrote: I already told you. You didn't read it. Once more...I too admonish the protesters but they are protesting against racism, homophobia and misogyny. Racists, homophobes and misogynists are not being persecuted for their behaviors. Wishing that your tax dollars were spent differently does not stir the same emotions as being relegated to second class citizenry.

...now, turn off your auto-argue program for a moment and simply consider what I said.
Disagreeing with illegal immigration constitutes racism only in the minds of brainwashed leftists who seek more votes for their party. Acknowledging that men and women should have their own restrooms is common sense, rather than homophobia. Opposition to abortion is classified by misogyny only by those callous enough to support that practice. I would submit that Christians have been demoted to second-class citizenry by the Obama administration in a multitude of ways, and their emotions have indeed been stirred. You can attempt to justify the disruptive, violent behavior by liberals at conservative rallies any way you want to, but an objective observer is able to recognize the difference in tactics, and admit which side typically displays the poorest behavior. My point will be proven in just a few weeks.
1) I didn't say anything about illegal immigration. 2) I don't give a "bleep" what bathroom you use, but you're angered if I use the wrong one. 3) You're anti-abortion.....again, a right you wish to take from others. 4) Please tell me what Christians are being blocked from worship. Christians are supporting oppressive laws under the guise of "religious freedom" which is profoundly academically dishonest. 5) I have not justified disruptive behavior. In fact, I have admonished those people twice but you don't read what I type so it didn't register. 6) Your side doesn't display poor behavior because nobody's outlawing your behaviors. I won't bother to explain it again but I will call BS on you confusing the notions of tolerance and protest.

Great posts springer. I'm a veteran high school teacher and my first openly trans student graduated this year. I will never forget him or his courage.

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Re: Identifying the Enemy

Post by greg jacobs » Fri Jul 01, 2016 5:30 pm

As far as abortion goes the adults made their disisions long before. We're trying to make sure the rights and lives of the unborn aren't taken away. Don't give a rip about people that made bad decisions.

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Re: Identifying the Enemy

Post by NEhomer » Sat Jul 02, 2016 5:04 am

greg jacobs wrote:As far as abortion goes the adults made their disisions long before. We're trying to make sure the rights and lives of the unborn aren't taken away. Don't give a rip about people that made bad decisions.
I fully understand this position. I'll add that the careful wordsmithing of the pro choice folks is nauseating. The best way for a woman to "control her body" is to control her knees. Then there's the fact that a man who has no interest in raising a baby he fathered is a deadbeat while a woman who has no interest is just exercising her choice.

That said though, in our secular society, it needs to remain a legal procedure. Religious folks should use their religion and faith to inform their own lives, not to legally compel others to behave the way they would. BTW, I said the same thing to the antis who banned fur trapping in my home state 20 years ago. Having my rights taken from me by a ballot initiative was infuriating.

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