The Plight of the American Hunter

Post Reply
User avatar
JonBailey
Rank: Senior Hunter
Posts: 183
Joined: Tue Apr 08, 2014 10:12 pm
Location: Boise, ID

The Plight of the American Hunter

Post by JonBailey » Fri Nov 30, 2018 12:13 am

https://www.outdoorlife.com/why-we-a...-fix-it#page-9

Less than 4% of the current American population hunts or has hunted.

Baby boomers make up our nation’s largest cohort of hunters, and they’ve already begun to age out of the sport.

90+% are white.

70+% are male.

Big game makes for the majority of all American sport hunting.

Tougher game restrictions and anti-gun regulations may be the key culprit.
Hunting seems to be getting more expensive.
Habitat for wild game seems less and less.

California, as most here know, is not terribly hunter-or-gun-rights-friendly.

Elimination of hounds for bear has certainly not helped the cause.

Being raised in a hunting community has its advantages.

“Most people who learn to hunt are woven into communities who give them that momentum. The type of people I teach don’t know anyone else who hunts,” says owner Murphy Robinson, a 35-year-old former vegetarian. “They aren’t friends with people that hunt who are going to reinforce that. So we’re creating that group within this program.”

Hunting in America is largely stereotyped as a country boy fraternity or something for the rich, privileged, moneyed, powerful and/or landed gentry.
Those who don't know other hunters or landowners are largely at odds in regards to entering the sport: taking up hunting requires money and/or connections.

In contrast, you don't have join a motorcycle club or know another cyclist to take up motorcycle riding. You just buy your bike, register your bike, buy insurance, buy motorcycle clothing, take a safety course and get a MC driver license. The opportunities to ride are only as limited as the many thousands of miles of public highway there is, and possibly, limited by circumstances related to less-than-favorable weather. Hunting is quite a different game to get into.

https://www.facebook.com/outdoorlife/vi ... 134926021/
Sadly, my home state of Idaho doesn't yet have an R3 program.

Another demographic we should not discourage from the hunting scene but rather welcome aboard is is the LGBT community.
"Let Hercules himself do what he may, the cat will mew and dog will have his day." - William Shakespeare

cjhills
GDF Junkie
Posts: 2528
Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2012 7:37 am
Location: aitkin,mn

Re: The Plight of the American Hunter

Post by cjhills » Fri Nov 30, 2018 7:25 am

Awesome Post, Jon !!!!!!!
Too bad your information is wrong. You may be right about the 4% and even possibily the 70% white. The number of women that hunt is increasing in the Midwest. Big game hunting may make up the majority of hunters.
Restrictions and anti gun regs are very low on the list of reasons fewer people are hunting and in most states have changed very little over many years.
Back when you talked about going bird hunting some of us told you how to get started at a sensible price,. Of course you disagreed.
I know nothing about California but I know people who hunt there and they seem to like it.
Bear Hunting with hounds is a very unique sport and it takes a special person to do it. It is popular in Wisconsin. Few people would put in the time and effort to do it If there were no restrictions.
Do not believe the stereotype theories.
Habitat loss is an issue as is access in some areas. How ever in your state and most of the Midwest anyone who wants to hunt can easily find both. Most states are working on both. You don't have to belong to a hunt club to hunt. Your state, as with many of the western states, has more public land than private land.
It is difficult or impossible to explain to a nonhunter why you hunt and you are probably right that being born into a hunting family and community helps. Four generations of my family hunted deer this year.
Demographics are changing and fewer people want to hunt, but access in most places is not the real issue.
I really don't think ones sexual preference has anything to do with it....Cj

User avatar
JonBailey
Rank: Senior Hunter
Posts: 183
Joined: Tue Apr 08, 2014 10:12 pm
Location: Boise, ID

Re: The Plight of the American Hunter

Post by JonBailey » Fri Nov 30, 2018 8:32 am

cjhills wrote:Awesome Post, Jon !!!!!!!
Too bad your information is wrong. You may be right about the 4% and even possibily the 70% white. The number of women that hunt is increasing in the Midwest. Big game hunting may make up the majority of hunters.
Restrictions and anti gun regs are very low on the list of reasons fewer people are hunting and in most states have changed very little over many years.
Back when you talked about going bird hunting some of us told you how to get started at a sensible price,. Of course you disagreed.
I know nothing about California but I know people who hunt there and they seem to like it.
Bear Hunting with hounds is a very unique sport and it takes a special person to do it. It is popular in Wisconsin. Few people would put in the time and effort to do it If there were no restrictions.
Do not believe the stereotype theories.
Habitat loss is an issue as is access in some areas. How ever in your state and most of the Midwest anyone who wants to hunt can easily find both. Most states are working on both. You don't have to belong to a hunt club to hunt. Your state, as with many of the western states, has more public land than private land.
It is difficult or impossible to explain to a nonhunter why you hunt and you are probably right that being born into a hunting family and community helps. Four generations of my family hunted deer this year.
Demographics are changing and fewer people want to hunt, but access in most places is not the real issue.
I really don't think ones sexual preference has anything to do with it....Cj

Cjhills, whether you agree with me or believe what I say is not too important.

Do you agree with anything the article at this link says notwithstanding my own two cents I threw in?
https://www.outdoorlife.com/why-we-a...-fix-it#page-9

You do agree hunting in America is in trouble regardless of what I say or for one or more reasons?
Loss of revenue from hunting license sales for wildlife management could really put this sport in jeopardy.

Ok, what can be done or said to save hunting for our posterity?

In California there were in fact some rare and crackerjack hound specialists who have hunted bear there for a long time until California banned bear hounding about five years ago and many if not most bear hunters there gave the sport up entirely or went to some other state to hunt bear.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5BCVzr_xJYM

Sometimes stupidity, ignorance or emotions, not sound wildlife biology, drives new game legislation.
Last edited by JonBailey on Fri Nov 30, 2018 9:41 am, edited 4 times in total.
"Let Hercules himself do what he may, the cat will mew and dog will have his day." - William Shakespeare

User avatar
MJB64
Rank: Senior Hunter
Posts: 118
Joined: Wed Jun 12, 2013 2:28 pm
Location: Minnesota

Re: The Plight of the American Hunter

Post by MJB64 » Fri Nov 30, 2018 8:36 am

Enough about the "Landed Gentry". Here you go Jon. This will get you started.

http://www.armslist.com/posts/7700849/i ... -r-topper-
https://idfg.idaho.gov/hunt/access

Mike
"Endeavor to perservere."

User avatar
isonychia
Rank: 5X Champion
Posts: 773
Joined: Wed Mar 02, 2011 10:35 am
Location: Southwestern Colorado

Re: The Plight of the American Hunter

Post by isonychia » Fri Nov 30, 2018 9:53 am

Tougher game restrictions and anti-gun regulations may be the key culprit.
Hunting seems to be getting more expensive.
Habitat for wild game seems less and less.
Hunter access and loss of interest are the top contenders. Habitat loss is the key player in less game, but that isn't really why there are less hunters.

EVERYTHING is more expensive.

JONOV
Rank: 2X Champion
Posts: 408
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2016 9:26 am
Location: Raleigh, NC

Re: The Plight of the American Hunter

Post by JONOV » Fri Nov 30, 2018 11:40 am

Its hard to find myself agreeing (in part) with Mr. Bailey again, but here we go...

He's right that the barriers to entry are somewhat big if you don't have a mentor that's willing to take the time that a Father or Uncle normally does to introduce you to hunting. Its expensive, but it ins't always apparent what you should buy, and what you shouldn't, whether a $100 Shotgun, $300 Shotgun, or $1200 Shotgun is what you need.

And, people are tight-lipped (and sometimes deceitful) about where they go and extremely cautious who they'll take with them. There's a fine etiquette line that comes with asking. I see it all the time with people looking to hunt more with their dogs and no idea how to go about it.

There is a lot of time, gas, boot leather, and days where you don't fire a shot before you figure it out. I've found a few pockets of Wild Quail, and I know where I can find woodcock and do some duck hunting, but I hunted for two solid seasons before I finally started having some success towards the end of my dog's second year. It had little to do with the dog, either. Most people will just tell you its not worth it to hunt wild birds in my state.

User avatar
DonF
GDF Junkie
Posts: 4020
Joined: Tue Sep 20, 2011 6:09 pm
Location: Antelope, Ore

Re: The Plight of the American Hunter

Post by DonF » Fri Nov 30, 2018 12:32 pm

I don't think cost will kill hunting anywhere. What it will do is limit it to those that don't care what it cost's! I'm not so sure lack of game will end it either. Ever notice how much some out of state license's and tag's run. If your fish and game and see revenue going down just increase the number of out of state tags you sell! take a good look at Africa and see what it cost's to hunt there. The average person can not remotely afford it. A brother worked for a guy that used to pay $5000 to hunt elk about 25 miles from here on private property. It's cost that will kill hunting as we know it and then all the deer will again belong to the king and the wealthy will support it! And there will again be plenty of deer!
I pity the man that has never been loved by a dog!

cjhills
GDF Junkie
Posts: 2528
Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2012 7:37 am
Location: aitkin,mn

Re: The Plight of the American Hunter

Post by cjhills » Fri Nov 30, 2018 1:12 pm

Actually in the last twenty or so years the cost of hunting has not increased much at all in my area. If you go pay to hunt private property prices have increased dramatically. On public hunting land which has some good hunting is still quite reasonable. license in creases have been small or none and fuel is about the same. Biggest increase has been ammo.
People are just doing other things....Cj

ddoyle
Rank: Master Hunter
Posts: 206
Joined: Tue Oct 18, 2005 6:29 am
Location: Bettendorf, Iowa

Re: The Plight of the American Hunter

Post by ddoyle » Fri Nov 30, 2018 11:16 pm

I think the biggest challenge we have is the fact that when I was a kid even if your Dad didn't hunt he found somebody at work he trusted and you tagged along. I think the biggest challenge is people tend to keep quiet about there hunting unless the know the are around other hunters.
Doyle

Trekmoor
GDF Junkie
Posts: 1917
Joined: Fri Dec 28, 2007 5:09 pm
Location: Scotland

Re: The Plight of the American Hunter

Post by Trekmoor » Sat Dec 01, 2018 5:41 am

I feel sort of dismayed after reading these posts. I'd always imagined game shooting/hunting was easy to get in the States ….or certainly by comparison to Britain ….easy to get. I got "priced out" of two little syndicate shoots I once belonged to here. Then the farm I'd trained my dogs on and shot over for 20+ years had it's shooting bought out from under me …..by two people I'd taken there as guests !

They were having trouble training their GSP's so I helped them , for nothing . I took them onto "my" farm and helped them train their dogs there . They then approached the farmer behind my back and bought me out ! That still rankles with me ! :x

Maybe this is why some hunters over in the states are not helping beginners as much as they might ?

Bill T.
The older I get, the better I was !

mask
Rank: 4X Champion
Posts: 631
Joined: Fri Nov 30, 2012 11:05 am
Location: Idaho

Re: The Plight of the American Hunter

Post by mask » Sat Dec 01, 2018 11:00 am

In the west I see more and more hunters every year. Hunter plight my rear!

fishvik
Rank: 5X Champion
Posts: 1070
Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2007 6:48 pm
Location: Idaho Falls, ID

Re: The Plight of the American Hunter

Post by fishvik » Sat Dec 01, 2018 2:08 pm

Trekmoor wrote:I'd always imagined game shooting/hunting was easy to get in the States ….or certainly by comparison to Britain
Unfortunatrly Bill, our animal rights and anti-gun folks always use the UK's laws and regs as the way things should be done in this country. No offense but I hope that never happens.

JONOV
Rank: 2X Champion
Posts: 408
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2016 9:26 am
Location: Raleigh, NC

Re: The Plight of the American Hunter

Post by JONOV » Mon Dec 03, 2018 11:31 am

Trekmoor wrote:I feel sort of dismayed after reading these posts. I'd always imagined game shooting/hunting was easy to get in the States ….or certainly by comparison to Britain ….easy to get. I got "priced out" of two little syndicate shoots I once belonged to here. Then the farm I'd trained my dogs on and shot over for 20+ years had it's shooting bought out from under me …..by two people I'd taken there as guests !

They were having trouble training their GSP's so I helped them , for nothing . I took them onto "my" farm and helped them train their dogs there . They then approached the farmer behind my back and bought me out ! That still rankles with me ! :x

Maybe this is why some hunters over in the states are not helping beginners as much as they might ?

Bill T.
It is easier than the UK for sure.

Throughout many areas, habitat management has failed the upland hunter. Example: In my state, I have the Nantahala National Forest and the Pisgah National Forest, over 1,000,000 acres, and a ton of other public areas, that I can legally hunt, and so can you, for a $5 fee on top of your $50 Sportsman's licence (which includes priveleges for Fishing, Small Game, and six deer tags.) Those National Forests used to have an ok population of Grouse, but the tree-huggers are in control to the point that there's no logging at all. So these huge, mature forests don't hold Grouse which need disturbed habitat to thrive.

Other states not traditionally known for bird hunting also had decent populations of birds...But farming methods have changed; there are no fencerows and the fields are immaculately clean.

But you can still take a trip to the Western States or Upper Midwest and get a lot of public access...

Scott Linden
Rank: 3X Champion
Posts: 520
Joined: Fri Jul 04, 2008 6:44 pm
Location: Bend, OR

Re: The Plight of the American Hunter

Post by Scott Linden » Mon Dec 03, 2018 10:18 pm

The bigger question might be ... what have you done to stop the downward slide? When was the last time you took a newcomer hunting? Helped at a youth hunt? Have you joined a local conservation group or chapter of QF? And so on ... If every hunter took one newcomer per season, and a quarter of them became avid participants, think of the P-R money, license revenues, habitat improvement/access, etc. that would result.

And while youth, women, inner-city residents, LGBT or color-blind individuals, etc. are better than nothing, the low-hanging fruit is NOT any of those demographics. It is our co-workers, fellow Elks Club members, neighbors, and others who are JUST LIKE US. Think about it:

- They already like you (I would hope!)
- They are possibly interested in what you do on weekends (do they ask?)
- They have the spending money.
- They have the same amount of free time you do.
- They might actually want to spend some time with you.

... and you have an extra shotgun, dog, spots to visit (blindfold them if you have to) and the motivation. One-and-done has failed. The industry finally recognizes recruiting, retaining and re-activating hunters is a long-term commitment. You will have to take your friend again later in the season, go to the range in the off season, then start over again next season. ARE YOU UP FOR IT?
Follow the hunter with the longest nose!
http://scottlindenoutdoors.com

fishvik
Rank: 5X Champion
Posts: 1070
Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2007 6:48 pm
Location: Idaho Falls, ID

Re: The Plight of the American Hunter

Post by fishvik » Tue Dec 04, 2018 4:39 pm

Scott Linden wrote:The bigger question might be ... what have you done to stop the downward slide?
Totally agree Scott. Too often I think we are giving something up by taking someone with us when in the reality and in the long run we will be gaining far more. As a retired natural resource professional and now volunteering with a nonprofit I am always amazed at how reluctant folks in our chapter to get others involved in our sport. They even shun newcomers in our chapter. The future of our sport, habitat and natural resource conservation in general is getting folks involved.

mnaj_springer
Rank: 5X Champion
Posts: 1271
Joined: Sun Jun 22, 2014 5:10 pm
Location: Northern Minnesota

Re: The Plight of the American Hunter

Post by mnaj_springer » Wed Dec 05, 2018 11:55 am

Jon,

I'll give it to you. I actually like this discussion. Good job! (sincerely!)

I'll add another piece to the conversation. One thing that hasn't been mentioned that should be is that the majority of the country supports hunting (as a general concept), as long as the word "trophy" is left out of the conversation. Without that support we have nothing.

Now how do we continue to keep that support? I don't think it's through giving in when people are outraged or riled up by the vocal few, which I believe happened to using hounds to hunt bears in Cali. I honestly believe that most Californians don't give a crap about how bears are hunted, and never think of it. And same with a lot of hunters who are not houndsmen. But the vocal few yelled and the rest were silent, including other hunters. I think "giving in" was the wrong move.

I also don't believe that yelling louder will do anything either. I think hunters need to be better at having a reasonable, logical, and thought out discussion with our allies. We need to be well-informed and self-reflective. For example, a lot of deer hunters will mention population control as a reason for deer hunting. If you're a deer hunter ask yourself this: If the population was "under control" would you say "Oh, thank god, now I can stop hunting deer!" or would you continue hunting as long as it is legal? I bring this up because it is a poor argument. I'm not saying that hunting doesn't manage the deer population. I'm saying it's not why we hunt and that's okay to say. Also, it's been shown (through studies) that explaining the regulations to someone is far more effective to increase positive feelings for hunting than mentioning population control.

The point: We need to keep our allies and the best way is to be informed, honest, and passionate.

My advice to people... go listen to the MeatEater podcast. Those guys have incredible discussions and have some awesomely informed guests.
“Man's mind, once stretched by a new idea, never regains its original dimensions.”
― Oliver Wendell Holmes Sr.

Middlecreek
Rank: Senior Hunter
Posts: 193
Joined: Mon Mar 09, 2009 7:10 am
Location: Nebraska

Re: The Plight of the American Hunter

Post by Middlecreek » Wed Dec 05, 2018 4:41 pm

Just out of curiosity.....

Jon,

What do you do for employment?
FC/RU CH SM Queen High Flush (Abby) http://www.perfectpedigrees.com/genview.php?id=3815
2xCH/2xruCH FC BDK's Sin City Wildcard (Deuce) http://www.perfectpedigrees.com/genview.php?id=2269

Post Reply