Labs vs. Goldens

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JonBailey
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Labs vs. Goldens

Post by JonBailey » Tue Dec 04, 2018 12:22 pm

What are the pros and cons of each kind of America's most popular breeds which happen to also be retrievers?

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Re: Labs vs. Goldens

Post by Timewise65 » Tue Dec 04, 2018 4:21 pm

JonBailey wrote:What are the pros and cons of each kind of America's most popular breeds which happen to also be retrievers?
That's' a nice looking red Golden you have on your post! I youngest Golden is also a 'red'....and she is a doozy!

Wow, that is a loaded question. I would you look at the breed description put out by AKC. They capture what the breed is supposed to be like, not only in stature and look, but also behavior and temperament. That is as good of an 'objective' perspective you can find. That being said, can you explain further what exactly you are thinking of using the dog for...home companion, hunting retriever, upland game, will the dog be around kids and/or other dogs. Will the dog live outdoors in a kennel our live with the family. etc. etc.


I have owned Field Bred Goldens since 1988. In that time I have run my dogs in hunt tests and hunted them on geese, ducks, pheasant, quail, and dove. My training for my dogs was done with a pro assisting to train my dogs and me on handling and training dogs in general. That is the way I recommend all hunters start out, employee a pro and learn from them. In time you will know how to train your dogs, but doing it from day one is a lot more than most realize, assuming you want a field trained dog.


I have three adult kids, two are active bird hunters. They both own field bred labs. They both have young kids and their dogs are great with kids, good with my Goldens, and family in general...and well adapted to retrieving ducks and upland birds. They will scent a bird, work up and flush it, you just have to watch them and you can tell when they are on a bird. All retrievers are trained to stay in close 40 yds. or so. It's not as good as having a pointer, but they do well and are great to hunt with. Same for my Golden's.

Now the hard part...where are they different! Labs shed less hair, big one for the wife! Lab's are 'generally' are a bit stubborn when training, accordingly, they might require more pressure in training. Golden's are 'generally' soft hearted and cannot take a lot of pressure when being trained as they will 'shut down'. Of course their are exceptions to every thing I say here.


The difference between the breed is not a major consideration. More importantly, if you are considering a field dog only consider breeders who specialize in field bred dogs whose blood lines show Field Titles and/or Hunt Test Titles...this increases your odds of getting a good hunting companion. Many will tell you that they had a dog who was a mut that was the best dog they ever had. Like I say before, exceptions do occur, but for my money I do all I can to find the best dog I can afford.


Sorry I cannot offer any big difference...they both are great dog breeds and labs are the #1 Sporting breed in America...twice as many owned that any other breed..But I love my Golden's all three of them I now have are top dogs to me! Best I have ever owned :mrgreen:

Good Luck

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Re: Labs vs. Goldens

Post by slistoe » Tue Dec 04, 2018 5:47 pm

Unless you are going to compete in trials, the average owner looking for a solid working dog would not really have a problem with a good dog of either breed. The problem with both breeds lies in their popularity. There are more pups of these two breeds available than most any other - but if you are wanting a solid working dog very few of the available pups will warrant even a first look. Be sure you find good, tested working stock to buy from - then decide if you want to deal with the long hair of the Golden.

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Re: Labs vs. Goldens

Post by JonBailey » Tue Dec 04, 2018 7:36 pm

slistoe wrote:Unless you are going to compete in trials, the average owner looking for a solid working dog would not really have a problem with a good dog of either breed. The problem with both breeds lies in their popularity. There are more pups of these two breeds available than most any other - but if you are wanting a solid working dog very few of the available pups will warrant even a first look. Be sure you find good, tested working stock to buy from - then decide if you want to deal with the long hair of the Golden.
Some hunters have their Goldens with field cuts by groomers, I've been told. This is so the burrs :twisted: are not so hard to comb out.

But a Lab doesn't usually need a haircut and I've heard they are also common as decoy dogs for coyotes and as blood-trailers for deer.
"Let Hercules himself do what he may, the cat will mew and dog will have his day." - William Shakespeare

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Re: Labs vs. Goldens

Post by JonBailey » Tue Dec 04, 2018 7:46 pm

Timewise65 wrote:
JonBailey wrote:What are the pros and cons of each kind of America's most popular breeds which happen to also be retrievers?
That's' a nice looking red Golden you have on your post! I youngest Golden is also a 'red'....and she is a doozy!

Wow, that is a loaded question. I would you look at the breed description put out by AKC. They capture what the breed is supposed to be like, not only in stature and look, but also behavior and temperament. That is as good of an 'objective' perspective you can find. That being said, can you explain further what exactly you are thinking of using the dog for...home companion, hunting retriever, upland game, will the dog be around kids and/or other dogs. Will the dog live outdoors in a kennel our live with the family. etc. etc.


I have owned Field Bred Goldens since 1988. In that time I have run my dogs in hunt tests and hunted them on geese, ducks, pheasant, quail, and dove. My training for my dogs was done with a pro assisting to train my dogs and me on handling and training dogs in general. That is the way I recommend all hunters start out, employee a pro and learn from them. In time you will know how to train your dogs, but doing it from day one is a lot more than most realize, assuming you want a field trained dog.


I have three adult kids, two are active bird hunters. They both own field bred labs. They both have young kids and their dogs are great with kids, good with my Goldens, and family in general...and well adapted to retrieving ducks and upland birds. They will scent a bird, work up and flush it, you just have to watch them and you can tell when they are on a bird. All retrievers are trained to stay in close 40 yds. or so. It's not as good as having a pointer, but they do well and are great to hunt with. Same for my Golden's.

Now the hard part...where are they different! Labs shed less hair, big one for the wife! Lab's are 'generally' are a bit stubborn when training, accordingly, they might require more pressure in training. Golden's are 'generally' soft hearted and cannot take a lot of pressure when being trained as they will 'shut down'. Of course their are exceptions to every thing I say here.


The difference between the breed is not a major consideration. More importantly, if you are considering a field dog only consider breeders who specialize in field bred dogs whose blood lines show Field Titles and/or Hunt Test Titles...this increases your odds of getting a good hunting companion. Many will tell you that they had a dog who was a mut that was the best dog they ever had. Like I say before, exceptions do occur, but for my money I do all I can to find the best dog I can afford.


Sorry I cannot offer any big difference...they both are great dog breeds and labs are the #1 Sporting breed in America...twice as many owned that any other breed..But I love my Golden's all three of them I now have are top dogs to me! Best I have ever owned :mrgreen:

Good Luck
That Golden on my avatar is not my dog but the dark red color I fancy. For hunting dogs, I like black or caramel yellow for with solid caramel ears for Labs, tricolor for foxhounds and beagles and solid black for German Shepherds, my favorite security dog. I'm a dog color fancier.
"Let Hercules himself do what he may, the cat will mew and dog will have his day." - William Shakespeare

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Re: Labs vs. Goldens

Post by Steve007 » Tue Dec 04, 2018 9:08 pm

Sorry, guys. Trying to answer Jon's questions -- any of them -- with genuine information is like trying to pour a gallon of milk into a pint container.

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Re: Labs vs. Goldens

Post by JonBailey » Wed Dec 05, 2018 4:23 am

Steve007 wrote:Sorry, guys. Trying to answer Jon's questions -- any of them -- with genuine information is like trying to pour a gallon of milk into a pint container.

Thank you, people for answering my questions. I just added a few remarks of my own, nothing personal.

IMOHO, I think I might be better served by a retriever for birds and a hound for deer since I need two dogs, a male and a bitch, for mutual company anyway.

The male might be a black Lab retriever and the bitch might be a tri foxhound/running Walker/July/Goodman/Trigg.
"Let Hercules himself do what he may, the cat will mew and dog will have his day." - William Shakespeare

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Re: Labs vs. Goldens

Post by Timewise65 » Wed Dec 05, 2018 9:38 am

Don't forget the Field Bred Golden's, you will find many breeders are breeding dogs with shorter stature and hair for the field. They are hard driving, fast with lots of style and can run all day long... :mrgreen:
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Re: Labs vs. Goldens

Post by JonBailey » Wed Dec 05, 2018 2:54 pm

Timewise65 wrote:Don't forget the Field Bred Golden's, you will find many breeders are breeding dogs with shorter stature and hair for the field. They are hard driving, fast with lots of style and can run all day long... :mrgreen:
Yes, the shorter coat, the better for me. Then again I might just go for a black Lab.

I think a black Lab walked together with a tricolor foxhound might look better since both hounds and Labs have short coats
and tricolor have black in their markings too boot.

Having studied the Labrador retriever in a book or two about the breed and having owned them in the past, it even has some hound in its ancestry.

Some hunters use them for trailing wounded deer so maybe there's that hound gene.
"Let Hercules himself do what he may, the cat will mew and dog will have his day." - William Shakespeare

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Re: Labs vs. Goldens

Post by mnaj_springer » Thu Dec 06, 2018 9:55 am

JonBailey wrote:
Timewise65 wrote:Don't forget the Field Bred Golden's, you will find many breeders are breeding dogs with shorter stature and hair for the field. They are hard driving, fast with lots of style and can run all day long... :mrgreen:
Yes, the shorter coat, the better for me. Then again I might just go for a black Lab.

I think a black Lab walked together with a tricolor foxhound might look better since both hounds and Labs have short coats
and tricolor have black in their markings too boot.

Having studied the Labrador retriever in a book or two about the breed and having owned them in the past, it even has some hound in its ancestry.

Some hunters use them for trailing wounded deer so maybe there's that hound gene.
You're basing this on what will look good when walked together? Hm interesting. I guess we all of preferences.

I have two black and white dogs... Personally, I didn't realize I liked black and white dogs until someone pointed out to me that both my dogs are black and white. I'm still not sure I do. I focused on performance and temperament when buying.
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Re: Labs vs. Goldens

Post by slistoe » Thu Dec 06, 2018 10:06 am

JonBailey wrote:
Having studied the Labrador retriever in a book or two about the breed and having owned them in the past, it even has some hound in its ancestry.

Some hunters use them for trailing wounded deer so maybe there's that hound gene.
Can you give a reference for which book you found this information in? Sounds like bull.... to me.

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Re: Labs vs. Goldens

Post by DonF » Thu Dec 06, 2018 1:41 pm

Never had a golden. But as I understand it they are more biddable than labs. That and they bring half the lake back into the blind with them!
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Re: Labs vs. Goldens

Post by Timewise65 » Thu Dec 06, 2018 2:35 pm

DonF…………

Many of the field bred Golden are small compared to the AKC breed standard. Field Breeders are doing this to develop a faster more athletic dog with less likelihood of have joint problems later in life.

On top of that they have much shorter hair than a standard show Golden. Couple those two things together and they do not carry more water into the blinds than a typical 'block headed' lab. That is not a slam on labs, many lab breeders are going for a larger structured dog with a large block shaped head. This is to accommodate retrieving large Canadian's that frequently run 16lbs and up! I do like labs also, but they tend to require more pressure to train, as many are just down right stubborn, especially if he is an Alpha Dog of the litter. Although, when these dogs are properly trained they are hard to beat in the field or in Trials....but takes a better trainer than I to train them...

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Re: Labs vs. Goldens

Post by Trekmoor » Thu Dec 06, 2018 2:44 pm

Labs do have a dollop of hound in them. They have a dollop of pointer too and probably a few other breeds too. When the breed now known as the Labrador first arrived in Britain it tended to be the wealthy landowners who bought them. They did as dog fanciers have always done ….they added "a little bit of this and a little bit of that" to try to improve the breed towards what they thought was required.

It was a wee while later before the breed was "standardized." If you have doubts about hounds or pointers being in the modern labs ancestry try googling something like "odd Labrador retriever coat colours." In addition to black, yellow and chocolate, you will see white (in the form of spots or speckles or patches) and also black and tan and even brindle ! I once trained a black , tan and white lab as a guide dog and he was bred by a Lady Cunninghame who used to live near the Scottish Guide Dog Centre in Forfar. That dog was definitely a pure bred lab ….and a throwback.

In Scotland I occasionally saw dogs working (usually owned by the gentry) that were deliberate crosses between labs and pointers. The people who owned and worked them, rated this cross highly as workers and as companion dogs. I liked them too but since they could not be field trialed I never bought one.


Bill T.
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