ESP, Cooperation, and gun dogs

Dave Gowdey · Post by **Dave Gowdey** » Mon May 16, 2005 10:32 pm

How many here have had a bond so close with a dog that you could hunt well for hours taking bird after bird, without ever uttering a command or giving a signal? A dog that literally knew what you were thinking as you were thinking it. Where you had a relationship so close in the field that you seemed to hunt together by magic - so there was almost no need for yelling, pointing, or whistle blowing? Is this the ultimate human-dog relationship? I would argue it is.

I would also argue that the dogs that you can establish this kind of relationship with are quite special and fairly rare -and that this has a large genetic component to it. Any thoughts.

Post by **ezzy333** » Mon May 16, 2005 11:02 pm

I think you will find that most dogs willdo that if you train that way.
At least after some experience they will. Janet has a video on that very subject i believe.

Ezzy

snips · Post by **snips** » Tue May 17, 2005 6:57 am

I know you are not a fan of any trials, but I have had 3 dogs, Cricket, Rip, and Logan that seem to read your mind. I think alot of it is intelligence and body language. Intelligence is definetly hereditary along with bird sence. The 3 dogs mentioned were each others offspring.

gunner · Post by **gunner** » Tue May 17, 2005 8:48 am

The pointers I've raised and trained seemed to handle off my body language as if they were on an invisible fishline.

Bird Dog 67 · Post by **Bird Dog 67** » Tue May 17, 2005 9:13 am

Dave Gowdey wrote:How many here have had a bond so close with a dog that you could hunt well for hours taking bird after bird, without ever uttering a command or giving a signal? A dog that literally knew what you were thinking as you were thinking it. Where you had a relationship so close in the field that you seemed to hunt together by magic - so there was almost no need for yelling, pointing, or whistle blowing? Is this the ultimate human-dog relationship? I would argue it is.

I would also argue that the dogs that you can establish this kind of relationship with are quite special and fairly rare -and that this has a large genetic component to it. Any thoughts.

My thoughts are that alot of times dogs are overhandled out in the field/woods by owners who haven't put the work in on the front end of the equation which of course is the training aspect. Not only do the dogs get to know the owners body language, tendencies and expectations, but a complete owner should do the same with the dog. Working cover I would much rather trust my dogs nose than my beliefs on where I "think" the birds SHOULD be but often aren't. Obviously there's room for error in this, but overhandling in my opinion can be just as if not more destructive than underhandling. Again, depending on the training level. Just one man's opinion.

TAK · Post by **TAK** » Tue May 17, 2005 2:00 pm

I had a Brit some years back that was everything and even more. Down right smart dog!

Margaret · Post by **Margaret** » Tue May 17, 2005 4:22 pm

Dave Gowdey wrote:How many here have had a bond so close with a dog that you could hunt well for hours taking bird after bird, without ever uttering a command or giving a signal? A dog that literally knew what you were thinking as you were thinking it. Where you had a relationship so close in the field that you seemed to hunt together by magic - so there was almost no need for yelling, pointing, or whistle blowing? Is this the ultimate human-dog relationship? I would argue it is.

I would also argue that the dogs that you can establish this kind of relationship with are quite special and fairly rare -and that this has a large genetic component to it. Any thoughts.

I believe it is a two way thing. You have to be as attentive to
the dog on the hunt as it is to you. Team effort.

I've found what spoils this fastest is hunting or even exercising the dogs with a friend that chats all the time and distracts my attention
from my dog, which then becomes far less cooperative - after all
one of the team isn't playing the game

Marg

Dave Gowdey · Post by **Dave Gowdey** » Tue May 17, 2005 11:10 pm

Brenda, Not a believer that horseback trials have much positive to do with hunting dogs, but I'm a pretty good fan of trials that more closely imitate hunting. Your experience has been similar to mine in that I think that this is genetic - and that it is basically a measure of cooperativeness of the dog.

I haven't found that very independent dogs have this much at all, nor have I found that this can be trained in any way. This level of cooperation and teamwork is worlds away from obedience.

I also agree with those that say it's a two way street. In many respects it is a silent conversation -with the dog communicating with the hunter in a myriad of subtle and not so subtle ways, and the hunter communicating with the dog the same way. I find it is amazing what my dogs tell me -and sometimes pretty funny as well

Colleen · Post by **Colleen** » Wed May 18, 2005 6:38 am

My two shorthairs are my first dogs, and I noticed that in my male. He doesn't need commands out in the field, a whistle or just saying his name is enough. My female, not so much. So it's also interesting to see the differences between the two of them. My male is the one I can trust 100% (ok, 99.9%) off-leash, in just about any setting. My male is less stubborn. He was easier to train. It seems he does everything to make us happy, and praise is a far greater reward for him than treats. Whatever this ESP thing is, I like it! And I agree it goes both ways, the more time I've spent with my dogs, the better we understand each other.

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ESP, Cooperation, and gun dogs

ESP, Cooperation, and gun dogs

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