Puppy aptitude test

Buzz · Post by **Buzz** » Mon May 16, 2005 8:32 am

I’m assuming you are all familiar with the puppy aptitude tests? I’m in the processes of getting my first dog and the litter was tested. How much stock do you guys put in this? One pup flinched at the sound of a loud noise. One pup went after a tossed object and took off with it. He also scored real high on the pain threshold (can you say force fetch nightmare) Do these traits generally play out or do a lot of them change?

Post by **kninebirddog** » Mon May 16, 2005 11:20 am

After learning about the Monks of New Skete and the art of raising a puppy then applying that with the puppy appitiude test

I have become a firm beliver in these methods and tests.
The test will indicate as to which on may test you a bit more . It will also indicate which ones will be more inclined to buckle under harsher pressure....

The pain threshold will indicate a better handling of stress and stimulation where one that riggles and crys right away may fold under the lightest stimulation

ones that are extremely bold and independeant will more them likely make better dogs for field where the ones that are unassured will more then likely be better for a more stable life

not that one may make a better hunter but field trials and on the road is more stressful and one that isn't as confident about being introduced to new things may not excel as well in always new situation but do extremely well if they have a routine of pretty much the same thing.
again I stress the word may and more likely

But the new skete methods...which help pups learn to deal with stresses starting at day one start higher on the appitude testing. I have had people have my pups with other pups and everyone that deals with different dogs will tell you there is a major difference.
The big thing also with the appritude test you have to blend the whole picture together...not just focus on one part of the test though a pup may hjave a higher pain threshold may also display alot of pack tendencies this is a good thing as this will show you that he will more then likley have a beeter respect for his place in the pack compile this with a higher prey drive though you may have to remind him of his postion in the pack . he will be more mindful to you and also be watching for weaknesses in you. challenging but theen again can be more forgiving . those extremely high in prey drive and less in the pack ...would be better suited for more experience type people who will be more inclined to direct him as this will be a more indepedent dog not afraid to get way out there as he already shows less inclinations to come back around and check in on you as one that has a bit more pack tendencies

TAK · Post by **TAK** » Mon May 16, 2005 2:48 pm

Buzz wrote:I’m assuming you are all familiar with the puppy aptitude tests? I’m in the processes of getting my first dog and the litter was tested. How much stock do you guys put in this? One pup flinched at the sound of a loud noise. One pup went after a tossed object and took off with it. He also scored real high on the pain threshold (can you say force fetch nightmare) Do these traits generally play out or do a lot of them change?

Buzz it is to each there own on picking a pup. I have talked with K-9 a little about her method. I am no expert in picking but I have not picked a bad dog yet! Knock on Wood!
I have two litters of pups and each person that is selecting there pup has one way or another. One wants to have the Alpha Female and one wants what ever pup I think is the best, and everything in between. Some highly regarded Pro's say grab a pup and go with it.... Delmar Smith made National Champions out of the last pup selected. I am not saying ones method does not work.
My .02$ is research the lines that you want. Ask around what like breed people think of the lines. Ask them what was the plus factors - Negitive factors. What has been turned out of the lines, Dog/human agressive dogs? good noses, lots of style, run, etc....
My biggest thing is who raised the pups! What human contact was made with each of the pups. Where the pups SOCILIZED or whelped, locked away with mom and then sold.... not good in my book.
The best way to select a good dog is to select an honest breeder! One that test there dogs day in and day out. I am not saying just trial or hunt test dogs I am talking a dog doing what it is breed to do. Hunt and hunt hard! again 2 penny's

Buzz · Post by **Buzz** » Mon May 16, 2005 7:47 pm

TAK
By and large I agree with you. However, after choosing a breed, breeder and litter, all having done one's homework, is it really just reach in and grab one? I mean, having come that far based on research could the final decision really that random? I went into it believing you can't tell at 6 weeks but staring those tests in the face, it's hard to not consider them. So to answer my question, you don't put a ton of stock in them?

Small Munsterlander · Post by **Small Munsterlander** » Mon May 16, 2005 9:15 pm

As I pick most of my clients pup (because of extreme distance) these tests are valuable as yet more information for analysis (if you like to be analytical) beyond the notes I keep on each pup throughout their first 8 weeks. They are obviously the final answer as to how a pup will turn out (we can't omit the nurture part of the equation) but if you have some experience using the tests and then seeing how those pups turned out over the years you can get greater value from the information.

Picking the breeder and line are always good things to do then matching your desires, personality and the pup's personality based on recorded history you stand a better chance of getting what YOU want. Rarely are two pups in even a line breed litter so close it makes no difference. However, what is also true is a great trainer can get greater results.

If the tests are immaterial then that also means using them won't hurt. I'm also well aware many pros of years past advocated sticking your hand in and grabbibg but I wonder if they had some of the behavioral knowledge and the tests to judge for them if they would be so cavalier? Bill

Margaret · Post by **Margaret** » Mon May 16, 2005 9:22 pm

IMO some of the puppies traits checked for in these aptitude
tests are valid, but taken away from the litter pups do change
their behaviour somewhat, and of huge importance in pups
development from then on is the home it goes to.

Marg

Dave Gowdey · Post by **Dave Gowdey** » Mon May 16, 2005 10:22 pm

I don't place any real stock in these tests, any more than I place faith in IQ tests of 3 year old humans. There are far too many variables in genetics, environment, etc. for a test done so early to have any real scientific chance of predicting end results. The reality is that if you compared results of picking pups by random sampling with those of the picking pups by the tests, I doubt you will find any difference at all.

I'm afraid I agree with TAK, Delmar, and those that say that your research has really ended once you have picked the breeder and litter. If you have done that well, then any pup you pick should be fine. Choose the method you like best. If you prefer tests, then use them. If you like pups with white on their muzzles, or wider heads, or whatever other physical attribute you like - use that. I personally use a wing that I hold out of sight and upwind of the puppy pile - the pup that responds to the scent and comes to investigate is mine. Others prefer to let the pup pick you. The bottom line is that the science really breaks down once you pick the litter -after that it should be fun rather than homework. Just one opinion.

Post by **Ayres** » Mon May 16, 2005 10:27 pm

I have to admit, I somewhat followed the Delmar Smith method when picking a pup... somewhat I say. My deposit was the only one for a male pup. There was only one male pup born. It was a pretty good match.

I do think that if a person can observe the pups and is looking for a certain trait/quality then the aptitude tests are a fine thing. I also think, as Delmar articulated, that if it's a good litter and a good breeder, all the pups are going to have the genetics and the experiences. A lot of what a pup becomes is dependant upon how it is cared for once it goes home with the new owner.

Katies Dad · Post by **Katies Dad** » Mon May 16, 2005 11:17 pm

I haven' t picked out to many pups yet but all the reading I have done says you dont want a alpha or bully nor do you want the shy one that watches all the other's play! I used the same type of method that Dave Gowdey used when picking out my katie. I didnt know alot about Gsp's blood lines when I got her so I figured the best way to pick one was to find one that was the most interested in what I wanted her to do which is find birds! I also kinda picked the color and body type I liked the most which happens to be a more square headed dog. There are many methods out there I will on my next dog be a lot more informed and bloodline savvy buyer!

Post by **kninebirddog** » Tue May 17, 2005 8:50 am

With people like Delmar Smith they have all the means in the world to do way more with an animal then most. But He also doesn't tell you how they will make a champion out of that dog either as a dog that is closer and has more pack tendencies will not make an all out independant All Age prosect so he will make a gundog champion out of that one. So bare that in mind he will make the dog excel in what that dog will do great at.

These test only indicate what that pups has a better chance of building on.
a pup that runs in the corner cowaring at noises sure you can work some confidence in to the pup BUT should anything happen this pup already is showing the signs of crumbling to start and will not bounce back as fast as a pup that isn't afraid to run up and check things out .
Now this also has some to do with genetics as soft parents will generally produce the same traits in the pup GENERALLY...
But doing things like socializing helps alot and then if you want to excel your pups socializing you can do things like The Art of Raising a Puppy this also will help pups be more bold. and I have tested this out for myself and I have people who have my pups and they notice a hugh difference in them.more coordination smarter and not a shy bone in the body.
So abck to the test they do help to indicate which ones may be a bit more family orientated compared to ones that are all about themselves and the human counterpart is a chaufferand something to check in with when called

TAK · Post by **TAK** » Tue May 17, 2005 1:28 pm

Buzz wrote:TAK
So to answer my question, you don't put a ton of stock in them?

No I don't. But I will take an honest persons opinion on it! if I was to be buying a dog from lets say K-9 and she told me she had a male/female that she had tested with the tests she performs and he was a A + at them I would say send me that one!

I would also add that I take great pride in saying I socilize my pups. Wow with two litters it is almost like a job but I also have the security I know what I am sending to the owners.

TAK · Post by **TAK** » Tue May 17, 2005 1:55 pm

Buzz good topic!

PAHunter · Post by **PAHunter** » Wed May 18, 2005 12:19 pm

I think I'll stick with the test! It makes sence to me! I need all the help I can get!

One thing I've learned--- Stick with a good breeder!!
I don't care what you do to it you'll never turn chipped ham into T-Bone steak.

Delmar Smith is a great trainer, that being said ------->

I think that many of us are more like Delmar Fudd than Delmar Smith. :roll:

I'm glad there are forums like this one that can help a guy like me learn more about the sport.

Thanks to All
Josh

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Puppy aptitude test

Puppy aptitude test

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