Dream Dog

[Pointers_31]

I am just curious as to what people out there are really looking for in a pup. So, my question is if you could cross any two dogs out there what would be your dream cross? Also, what are you looking for when you are looking for a puppy? Are you looking at their papers, or looking at what their parents have accomplished or produced in hopes that this puppy will be that once in a lifetime dog?

I have found myself falling into the trap of buying dogs based on their pedigree, so yes you could say that I'm somewhat only getting dogs based on pedigree not on results, but I am starting to go the other way....at least I would like to think so! I have six dogs total, I have three that have littermates who are Champions at young ages and one that has a National Champion full sister, and one that is a daughter to one of these dogs. I feel like I'm moving in the right direction now after getting burnt several times! I have bought several dogs mostly based on pedigree, pictures and talking to who was selling them. I have also ended up selling several of those dogs as well, because of misrepresenting that dog or financial reasons, but I feel confident in my dogs right now, if my buddy would just part with a pup that he has!!

[BarkRidge]

Buying pups, too me, is a crap shoot, whatever the pedigree.

If I am forced to buy a pup i will try and buy it around a year old. i also like to know about previous breeding and were they successful.

I also try and find out why the two dogs were bred. What was the breeder doing in breeding the pair? Most of the "internet breeders" breed based on pedigree. They sell better. But produce generally crappy dogs.

I want a breeder too breed based on a successful sire and matching it to a dam that either further accentuates the strengths of the dogs, or has strengths where the other lacks. But it will not guarantee great offspring. But there will be a diamond in there somewhere.

[Don]

This could be intresting. Why do you think that dogs from long lines of winners produce more winners? I think it's because the people that trial look to winners to get winners. It would be intresting to see what would happen if some of the top trainers took pup's from bloodlines that were strong but dogs that weren't trialed. All the same breeding is still there and who knows how many Pork Rolls, Guard Rails, Sunrise's ect. are locked away in these litters never to be found simply because the pedigree's say the dogs weren't trialed?

I don't get all shook up about a ton of ch's or HOF dogs. Sure I like to see them but their no guarentee that your gonna get one. Most the pups produced each year are not trial dogs and I suspect that more trial dogs that in theory should be good ones, wash out! I think chashing a pedigree will only get you in the ball park, nothing more. There are many things that make a great dog and talent is certainly no small part but, more important is the developement of the dog by the trainer. A lot of people go out and get a high bred dog then spend thousands when they turn it over to a trainer to develope. How many also rans could do as well if someone spent the time and money on them?

A good example of that is Tekoa Mountain Sunrise. His sire, Barn Owl Wind was not a champion nor did he throw a lot. His dame did even less. His grandfather on the top did little and his grandmother next to nothing. His grandparent's on the bottom will be remembered more because of Sunrise than anything they did. So tell me where this great dog came from? Out of no where! How many other great dogs like that out there?

Another thought is how high a powered dog do you think you can really handle? let's assume you pick a pup from strong winners noted for producing winners, are you up to the task of training and handling a dog like that? Most people aren't. Instead they stumble along looking for a dog they can't handle content that the dog is doing what it is supposed to. Enter the world of the Garmin and tracking collars. Not because the dog isn't trainable but because its independence is so great that it really does need a full time pro to bring out its best. I think one thing a lot of people seem to forget is that a good dog goes hunting for you, not you for it! I think that if the trial world were honest with you you'd hear that the high powered trial dog, the true competative dog, does not make such a good hunting dog. You by from strong lines like that and you risk getting a dog like that. if you have the time, ability and/or the money thats not all bad, do you?

Few people are so knowledgeable in bloodlines that they can say that this or that line will give you what you want. What I look for is good proven lines with dogs I like to look at. I like Moesggard/Grief shorthairs, Jet Train and now Tekoa Mt. Setters, Doublecross Slim and Paladin pointers. I like the way they look first and they are reasonably biddable. But even with them you can get a hotrod or a cull.

[tfbirddog2]

I have a great cross dog Lab/weimer mix its the best , hard desire to please, awesome pointer, easy to train,absolute great family dog.Never been a fan of lab/gsp mix, but hunted with a good lab/EP though and in-laws had a ep/britt mix that was pretty good.I think a birdmutt it was you make it and can bring out of each breed.

When I was looking for a puppy just here earlier, I wanted pure bred paper, for future breeding if she turned out well for the line I have or for the line at the lodge I guide for.When I found the pups I liked I talked to the breeder and asked how the parents hunted and if he thought from them the pups could make good guide dogs(crap shoot).Found out later where he got the dam from and new the guy and asked how she hunted for him and that help too.He had some other pups too, but not a big fan of lines so it was a no pretty quick.

I dont look for FCs and stuff but if I have heard of a few of the lines here or there in a pup.A lot of folks will base there pup or the whole litter on a FC and get burnt like your saying pups or dogs are a crap shoot like everyone says.I think for the average guy or nontrialer just throw down the money and cross your fingers.If you cant get what you want send it to a pro or dont get picky.IMO

[TrueBlu Shorthairs]

Thank the Lord for opinions as their is no factual answer. Some champions produce champions, some strong pedigreed dogs are now in the HOF as producers but didn't do anything competitively. If breeding was so simple you could take two great performers to produce a litter of great performers, then breeding would be a simple procedure. Buying due to pedigree and tales of performances may be all one has. However, in this day of internet breeders, a buyer had better do more than listen to the internet jockeys, he better know dogs or find someone who does. Everyone breeds champions, everyone breeds pedigrees, and everyone knows it all. I am far more concerned in knowing what a dog and female have produced than seeing their trophies. I can name far more no named dogs that produced champions than champions that produced consistent winners. I see it constantly, two NFC dogs bred and produce little. Find that female who can produce stylish shooting dogs if bred to a snake. Find the breeder who produces high class true BIRDDOGS that are first and foremost brag birddogs but also produce winners. Some of us have the advantage, we may have seen the pups' grandparents trialed or hunted over them, we may know their holes, their attributes, we may know that some 3 time All Age National Champion has been bred to a thousand times and only produced a few truly outstanding dogs.

[up-hunter]

This to me is a very interesting tread. Some of the points you guys have brought up are great.

The point you made about your average hunter and high powered dogs, i beleave is spot on. I also think it's why some people have problems with ep's because they tend to be more high powered and independent than most of your versatiles.

[lvrgsp]

Find that female who can produce stylish shooting dogs if bred to a snake

.

I could not agree more with you on this, it's always the sire, and yes it takes two to tango, but I believe a prepotent bitch is hard to come by but they stamp there progeny.

Hmm a dream cross? Evolution to Nells Rambling On, maybe.

JMO,
Chip

[Pointers_31]

I agree with that comment that you need to find that female that if bred to a snake could produce birddogs. The only problem I see with that is, by the time you figure that out her pups are doubled in price or she's too old to produce anymore, or there is a waiting list a mile long.

[cgbirddogs]

[quote="Pointers_31"]I am just curious as to what people out there are really looking for in a pup. So, my question is if you could cross any two dogs out there what would be your dream cross? Also, what are you looking for when you are looking for a puppy? Are you looking at their papers, or looking at what their parents have accomplished or produced in hopes that this puppy will be that once in a lifetime dog?

quote]

Interesting topic. Although pedigree matters to me, the end product matters more. So I'll describe what I'm looking for first, then the pedigree that I would LIKE for it to come from, if possible. I want an all day dog 1st. It's usually hot where I hunt, and a dog that can last in these conditions is a must. An intelligent dog. Usually the more intelligent the dog, the better nose he has. Natural retrieving instinct. I don't think that's too much to ask for, even if you can force break the dog. The natural retrievers tend to be better dead bird finders in my experience. Big run. At this point in my bird dog owning life, I don't have time to be fooling around with a boot licker. Class Class and more Class! I want a dog that points with a high head (not necessarily kiss the sky), and with close to straight tail, 12:00. I won't be putting a level on it, but I think you know what I mean.

I'd like all of that to come out of a dog that I have bred, but I have, and will buy outside of my own yard. I'm partial toward the Elhew lines, but through McGoo or Seawolf. I also really like what Joe Shadow brings to the table. I'm always searching for "the perfect bird dog", that's half the fun!

[Pointers_31]

Bark,

Do you own Whippoorwill Wild Agin or do you just like that picture of him? Just curious because I have a pup out of him that I'll be working this summer.

[3Britts]

Here is what I have on my web site:
Upper Ridge is dedicated to Brittany improvement. Our mission is to raise the whole dog, one who hunts, loves the family and has show qualities. We believe that Brittanys must, first and foremost, be able to hunt, as this is their core nature, and have a temperament that is pleasing and kind, with a willingness to socialize easily into the family setting. These two aspects of the Brittany’s nature are equal in our view. Second, we seek dogs that conform to breed standards. This aspect allow those who wish, to show their Brittany companions.

After all that is done, I pick the dog that has that certain look. The one that says, Here's perfection!