Who's your daddy??

Yawallac · Post by **Yawallac** » Sat Jun 28, 2008 9:38 am

I love getting dogs in for training, that the instant I see them point, I know EXACTLY who they're out of.

Can you guess??

Yep, his daddy is Ch. Shadow's Attitude!! I love the "Head crank" that Cash puts in his off-spring, but I love the long-range-choke-bore noses even more!!

Jack, if you're reading this thread, thank you!! I love training this dog!!

snips · Post by **snips** » Sat Jun 28, 2008 1:28 pm

As nice as it looks, where do you go to find the bird? It really does not give you a clue where to look. There was a pointer in NSTRA that pointed like that, I always hated to back him, as I would have to wait while the handler covered half the country trying to find the bird :roll:

Yawallac · Post by **Yawallac** » Sat Jun 28, 2008 2:33 pm

Brenda....

In front of him, depending upon the wind. No different than any other pointing dog. After hunting with a "Head Cranker" you can figure it out easily enough. Depends on the conditions. Definitely don't start directly under his nose though. The Attitude bred dogs typically have LONG-RANGE noses. Many do well in NSTRA but they are best suited for wild birds IMO.

But you're right though, they get "backed" a lot!!

Ricky Ticky Shorthairs · Post by **Ricky Ticky Shorthairs** » Sat Jun 28, 2008 2:59 pm

The birds are usually UPWIND of the dog!!!

Doug

tommyboy72 · Post by **tommyboy72** » Sat Jun 28, 2008 3:59 pm

That sure is a pretty dog but I still like the fact that my Elhew looks exactly where the bird is and is usually within about 10 yards of the bird itself and he will absolutely slam on the breaks and turn on a dime to point. He points with a low head a contorted body and 3/4 rise to his tail. Probably shows a weaker nose but I still get all choked up with pride every time he does it. haha.

Post by **Sharon** » Sat Jun 28, 2008 4:03 pm

I wouldn't care if I couldn't find the bird. Just looking at that dog would be enough. Wow.

WildRose · Post by **WildRose** » Sat Jun 28, 2008 4:09 pm

Yawallac wrote:I love getting dogs in for training, that the instant I see them point, I know EXACTLY who they're out of.

Can you guess??

Yep, his daddy is Ch. Shadow's Attitude!! I love the "Head crank" that Cash puts in his off-spring, but I love the long-range-choke-bore noses even more!!

Jack, if you're reading this thread, thank you!! I love training this dog!!

From a purelly artistic standpoint it's appealing since it's balanced and symmetrical.

I don't find it to be what I like in a dog though as it doesnt' indicate to me that the dog really knows where the bird is, and other than figuring it's somewhere in front of him it's certainly not helping me locate the bird.

If I had to pick between that dog and the one in your avatar, your dog would win every time for both eye appeal and utility.

Something about the whole head crank deal just looks to me like a hound fixing to sound off at the moon, or an idiot about to drown in a thunderstorm. CR

Don · Post by **Don** » Sat Jun 28, 2008 6:07 pm

Charley, your a bad man! An idiot about the drown in a thunder storm; really! Head crank ain't my cup of tea either. Good looking dog tho and the one in the avatar is even better!

NE Vizsla · Post by **NE Vizsla** » Sat Jun 28, 2008 9:47 pm

Well i think it looks cool Ros.

DGFavor · Post by **DGFavor** » Sat Jun 28, 2008 10:03 pm

If you wave your hat in the air, call "point", walk out and flush a bird(s) then it works just fine for me!!

We'll find dogs standing like that out here quite a bit with breezes comin' up a draw or over a ridge but it usually requires a relocation or flushing so far out you lose contact with the dog.

Cool pic!

Hey Ross - Edjicate me a little - NBHA vs Shooting Dog vs NBHA Nat'l Champ vs AF SD Nat'l Champ vs ? Nat'l Champ. Like the sire of this dog pictured - what venue did his championship(s) come in? I don't read the Field that closely, alot of times not at all, so I don't read about all the championships - have to confess I skip over the NBHA stuff. Are alot of the dogs you're using out of that venue and perticipants/champions in that venue? Are they open AF participants/champions? Both? How about a rundown on the NBHA trial system?

oakcreek · Post by **oakcreek** » Sun Jun 29, 2008 2:20 am

He won in the NBHA a walking stake

DGFavor · Post by **DGFavor** » Sun Jun 29, 2008 9:41 am

That's cool, I'd take a championship like that for sure!! Are they shooting birds and retrieving 'em in that venue? Scouting? Are the championships 60 minute stakes? Are they comparable to a "traditional" Shooting Dog stake in terms of application, bird finding, manners, etc.?

lvrgsp · Post by **lvrgsp** » Sun Jun 29, 2008 10:34 am

Here ya go Doug.
Chip

The NBHA has a Rule Book complete with by-laws. All NBHA trials must be run in accordance with these standards. Any questions about the standards please call your local or national officers. Many problems can be averted in this manner. The NBHA trials are walking trials held on a singe course as near natural hunting conditions as possible. Quail are liberated around the course before the trials starts. Birds are planted in objective areas where you would expect your dog to encounter wild birds. There are enough birds planted around the course so each dog has a fair opportunity to be judged on his hunting ability. We usually plant approximately thirty birds before the trial starts. They are replaced by bird planters with gloves when they fly off course. The course is reseeded after lunch or any other extended period or interruption, with half that many birds. A finished walking shooting dog is required to handle, point, back and retrieve. The dog is only required to be steady to the flush by the Rule Book. There are seven recognized stakes in the NBHA. The Open Stakes are open to both professional handlers and amateur handlers. A professional handler is anyone who takes any form of compensation for handling or training a dog. An amateur handler is anyone who does not take any form of compensation for handling or training a dog.

The stakes are categorized by the dog 's age. The recognized stakes in the NBHA are:

OPEN STAKES
Puppy
Derby
Shooting Dog
Restricted Breed Shooting Dog

AMATEUR STAKES
Puppy
Derby
Shooting Dog

The NBHA Rule Book and by-laws detail the minimum requirements of performance and qualifications for each stake. Please read these carefully and ask questions.

The dogs are drawn in each stake by pairs. There are two judges for each stake. They can remain the same throughout the trial or you may use different judges for different stakes. It is desired that the club procure the judges early and advertise their names and the stakes they will be judging in your field trial ad. The judges evaluate the performance of each dog and compare his performance to the other dogs ininthat stake. They may choose there dogs if there are six starters in each stake and place them first, second and third: or they may withhold any or all placements if the minimum requirements for the stake have not been met. The judges ride horses and the gallery may be on foot or horseback. There is a handicap rule, for people to ride horses. There are numerous levels of competition in the NBHA. They are: Club Trials, State Classics, Regional Championships, Futurity and National Championship events. A state organization must have Three or more clubs. If a state does not have three or more clubs, the existing clubs are assigned to the nearest competing state. The state organizations are grouped into regions. Each club elects a Director to represent them at the state level. Each State elects a Director to represent them at the National Level. State Directors elect the National Officers.

Brittguy · Post by **Brittguy** » Sun Jun 29, 2008 10:36 am

I'm not use to seeing them quite that high , but I like it.

Post by **ezzy333** » Sun Jun 29, 2008 2:09 pm

I second Charlies opinion of the head but really like the tail. He is a really nice looking dog.

Ezzy

TrueBlu Shorthairs · Post by **TrueBlu Shorthairs** » Mon Jun 30, 2008 7:08 am

All things being equal, this dog would get the nod everytime in a trial versus some low headed dog that has learned he can look at pen reared birds. If wild quail hunting, there's no reason to want a low headed dog. He needs to scent distant air scent, not be close to the ground. A low headed dog bumps birds. If the quail are wild they will do one of two things, either blow out about the time you get parallel to this dog or will hold so tight you have to step on them. Mostly, blowing out early. If they are gonna hold tight, I still want a high head. I'll take this dog to hunt over and certainly to compete with any day.

birdogg42 · Post by **birdogg42** » Mon Jun 30, 2008 10:39 pm

I agree with you tru blue!!!!!!!! Awesome looking dog Ross!

WildRose · Post by **WildRose** » Mon Jun 30, 2008 11:17 pm

HUH?? Since when is a dog holding his head with his neck extended well above his shoulders considered to be "low headed"???

The term as I've always understood it referred to a dog holding his head below shoulder level.

I've seen more dogs point wild birds of more species and in more places in the last ten years than I can begin to remember, and I've never seen a dog bust birds by looking at where they are! CR

LarryLowell · Post by **LarryLowell** » Tue Jul 01, 2008 9:38 am

I personally, LIKE IT !!!!

Bird hunting for me is way more than killing birds. Its the image, artistry of it all, as well as memories shared with family and friends. Seeing a good dog find birds with style makes my heart skip a beat doing it out on a limb I think sometimes I stop breathing. Seeing a dog running full speed and stopping on a dime with a hard point on first scent , is just as addicting as any street drug out there. Thats why most of us are so Pointing Dog Crazy.

For myself, as a hunter I want my dogs to stop on first scent. If I have to look around and then relocate them so be it. With a dog that carrys their head high, look up wind, just like any other dog. If you have experience behind a dog like this you'll learn the dog and how far the birds might be out, your not going to start looking 5-10 feet in front of him.

Now in timed dog games it might be harder to find the bird because theres only one bird, and its most likely buryed in a bush or something, and being timed your wasting time with a dog like this, BUT Wild birds are a different story your not on the clock, and when you get close they will fly.

End result is a dog with a great nose is going to make it harder on you to find the birds at times, BUT I would rather have a great nosed dog than a turd that points right on top of his birds every time. My dog Neo has a great nose. In most cases hes going to point 25-30 yards out, BUT hes been known to point bird out as far as 75 plus yards too. Wildrose, I think you can say the same thing about your Bullet dog. A dog with a great nose can be a pain sometimes, BUT again, Personally , I LIKE IT !!!!!!!!!

Thanks for sharing the picture Ross.

Larry Lowell

Elkhunter · Post by **Elkhunter** » Tue Jul 01, 2008 10:26 am

I think he is a good looking mutt!!

I think he is a brother to my dog, or at least a half brother. My dog wont crank his head like that though, but he is very stylish. How old is he Ross? Is he weird in the kennel? He looks really good, keep posting pictures for us. Also how come you never put any videos up anymore? I really enjoyed those and I am sure there are others here who liked them!

snips · Post by **snips** » Tue Jul 01, 2008 10:33 am

I have seen dogs that point with their nose pointed up and the bird be under their nose or a mile away. I am not knocking it, I like pretty style all day long. I just do not like to hold a backing dog while someone treks all over the country looking for the bird!

jessie · Post by **jessie** » Tue Jul 01, 2008 10:39 am

If you stand them up enough you can get any dog to crank their head like that. I personally think its overrated.

Shadows Attitude does throw a lot of that in a dog though, along with man shyness, weirdness, bad tailsets, 11 o'clock tails (like the one on this particular dog) and crazy coloring.

jessie · Post by **jessie** » Tue Jul 01, 2008 10:48 am

Brenda you don't have to look to hard for wild birds.

snips · Post by **snips** » Tue Jul 01, 2008 10:51 am

All I stated was that I had to back a dog that pointed like this in NSTRA, (not wild birds) and it would take the handler FOREVER to locate the bird..ugh.

DGFavor · Post by **DGFavor** » Tue Jul 01, 2008 10:57 am

What a dog with a "good nose" is can certainly be argued? Is it one that picks up scent from a long ways off, stands then the hunter goes hunting for the birds? Or is it one that locates 'em with pinpoint accuracy but doesn't bump 'em? I can go out on my back porch some days and put my nose up in the air and tell ya' that there is a stockyard in the area but I can't tell ya' where it's at!!

Personally, I think with the good experienced bird dogs, the dog/bird/nose relationship is a fine balance of things we will never understand. Experienced dogs'll pick those birds up from a long ways off using the breezes to their best advantage. Sometimes that breeze/scent comes just off the ground, sometimes it's coming in high over their head - watch 'em the good ones adjust how they carry their nose throughout the day and location. Once they catch that scent, their experience/6th sense/whatever tells 'em how close they can work that "push/pull" relationship with the bird(s). The really good ones seem to be born with that innate sense of when close enough is close enough and go through their bird dog lives from day one just plain telling ya' where the birds are at. Other dogs either take relocating a time or two or bumping a few birds to learn the game depending on which side of the too close/too far scale they fall. The dogs that I see have the most trouble are the ones whose handlers feel they need tell the dog where to stop - usually either at first sign of scent by the dog or when the dog is either right on top of the bird they've put out or bumped it - rather than let the dog figure that out on it's own. Just my observations FWIW.

Elkhunter · Post by **Elkhunter** » Tue Jul 01, 2008 11:05 am

Jessie, you own a Cash dog? My avatar dog is a Cash dog, I like him a ton. I have not experienced anything you mentioned but I have experienced amazing endurance, STRONG prey drive, intense on point and a very good nose. Not to mention he is a very affectionate dog.

Brenda, I have done that, my GSP was on point and I trudged around for 5 minutes looking for the "bleep" quail, it was snowing and they would not fly, needless to say it was 3 feet in front of my dog buried in a bush. Basically invisible, the only way I found him was my dog relocated and pointed it from like 3 inches.

TrueBlu Shorthairs · Post by **TrueBlu Shorthairs** » Tue Jul 01, 2008 12:17 pm

I have never had to kick a wild bird to get him to fly. In fact, if you are hunting thick enough cover to hold birds, about the time you get next to the dog, the covey blows out. I have seen a big covey hold in a single tiny patch of nothing cover, but not often. So, why do you need a dog to show you where birds are?? A dog that points with a low head usually runs with a low head. A dog that runs with a low head usually scents birds far later than a dog that is running with a high head. If I have a dog that runs with a low head he won't win many trials. At least trials I would be proud to win. Maybe some off breed little trial, but not trials with good dogs. If a dog points with a low head, looking at the bird, he will not win over a dog that looks like the dog Ross posted. Beauty of it...to each his own, if you like a low headed dog than own all you want. I'd rather breed and own dogs that look like....

http://www.lsgspc.org/Hud.html

Why own a dog that looks like an armadillo supporting a corn cob?

cgbirddogs · Post by **cgbirddogs** » Tue Jul 01, 2008 12:34 pm

I have a Cash daughter, she's the greatest. Hard charging little girl, she came out the pet-a-porter finding birds. I never had one who jacked her head up like that when pointing, but always admired the ones I seen. I only got to hunt her the last 1/2 of the season last year, but I'm looking forward to hunting her a full season this year.

jakegsp · Post by **jakegsp** » Tue Jul 01, 2008 4:11 pm

I really like the head crank. It's stylish. To each their own I guess. CG, that little female came out of the box with a head crank and awesome tail! I have a littermate brother to her that is stylish but nothing like she is.

WildRose · Post by **WildRose** » Tue Jul 01, 2008 4:32 pm

TrueBlu Shorthairs wrote:I like a dog to look puffed up and not level. My opinion is only my opinion, so I'm not too sure what difference it makes. I don't consider the black and white pointer to have anywhere near a low head.

Well that was the dog I held up as the example Blake, and guess what, he's looking towards the birds in front of him, not looking up at the buzzards flying over head! CR

huntindog · Post by **huntindog** » Tue Jul 01, 2008 7:33 pm

It looks cool. But as a practical matter for me, I'd rather have a dog that comunicates with me by how it's pointing.
I trained with a guy who had a dog that did that awhile back. It drove me AND it's owner nuts trying to find the birds. Birds out here run constantly, and it seemed that poor dog was always left holding the empty bag. The owner did tell me that when he got around with a bird he usually did well as judges liked the look.

As far as the comments about wild birds...I guess that depends on what you're hunting. Mearns is my favorite, and they hold incredibly TIGHT! You can walk right thru them and thy stay put. Once they start to flush it can continue for some time. We have often had a covey continue to flush for close to 5 minutes while we are standing right in the middle of them.

So with either of the two extremes, Running birds or extremely tight holding birds. I like a dog that tells me where they are, and what they are doing. That's what I need in a hunting partner.

Now like I said, different areas of the country have different conditions and different behaving birds as a result. In those cases I guess one can go for the looks. It really does look cool. Especially after having seen a dog do that in person.

WildRose · Post by **WildRose** » Tue Jul 01, 2008 9:15 pm

WildRose wrote:
TrueBlu Shorthairs wrote:Usually I don't see a need to answer your questions Charlie as you know it all already. What question?? Your low headed question? I didn't say a word about a dog who points with his head above his shoulders being low headed necessarily. However, I like a dog to look puffed up and not level. My opinion is only my opinion, so I'm not too sure what difference it makes. I don't consider the black and white pointer to have anywhere near a low head.

And I never said I preferred a low headed dog, nor mentioned them at all so what were you lecturing me about?

The black Pointer, you know Yaw's avatar AND the picture I used as the example in that post; he's looking towards the birds in front of him, not looking up at the buzzards flying over head!

Chasin' Mearns · Post by **Chasin' Mearns** » Wed Jul 02, 2008 12:06 am

Who's your Gran -Daddy? Here is my pup Patch next to her Sire's-Sire / CH Shadow's Attitude.

Varied opinions on CRANK. I think some are personal preference and some are EP envy on the boards..........

Here is another pup of mine. Maybe more of the full choke / lazer direction finder folks appreciate.........

Either way, I have one of each and will offer a few opinions based upon my own dogs.

It is easy to hunt behind a crank point. Read the dog, ck the wind, smile and say something flattering to self about how stylish the dog looks, move in at a 90, sometimes take a pic, close the deal.

It is easy to hunt behind a traditional point. Read the dog, smile and say something flattering to self about how intense the dog looks, move in at a 90, sometimes take a pic, truly focus on closing the deal, cause the pup is telling you: "Look boss, their right there, and you better not miss."

For you Jessie........ Why the venom? Fall out of the circle? I got all the $ you want to lose that easily conveys most dogs don't crank and there isn't much we can do to alter what Mother Nature gave them by just having them stand there. You may want to think about what traits are man made vs what could be called prepotent from a particular sire in dogs before you spew...........

Steve

Post by **Greg Jennings** » Wed Jul 02, 2008 6:39 am

All the latter posts in this thread would have better been accomplished with a "Do you like head crank" poll thread. It's a preference.

Greg J.

TrueBlu Shorthairs · Post by **TrueBlu Shorthairs** » Wed Jul 02, 2008 7:16 am

Charlie, obviously we just weren't on the same page. The dog you posted looks great. In fact, I prefer a dog that looks like the black pointer you posted over the dog looking skyward. I'm talking about a dog that runs with its head truly low, below shoulder height. That is my definition of low. Anything over the height of the dog you posted is somewhat overkill in the high head category. We're on the same page.

jessie · Post by **jessie** » Wed Jul 02, 2008 10:52 am

No venom Steve just observations from dogs out of that line that I have owned and/or trained. On that matter Steve I can pose most any dog on a crate with enough practice and teach him to hold his head high. I had a britt years ago that pointed with her head pointed to Jesus and she was taught that. I'm not saying it's not bred in (if you read my post I acknowledged that) all I'm saying is that I can get most dogs to pull their heads up when pointed if I work on them long enough. You're dogs look nice Steve.

jessie · Post by **jessie** » Wed Jul 02, 2008 10:58 am

Elkhunter wrote:Jessie, you own a Cash dog? My avatar dog is a Cash dog, I like him a ton. I have not experienced anything you mentioned but I have experienced amazing endurance, STRONG prey drive, intense on point and a very good nose. Not to mention he is a very affectionate dog.

Brenda, I have done that, my GSP was on point and I trudged around for 5 minutes looking for the "bleep" quail, it was snowing and they would not fly, needless to say it was 3 feet in front of my dog buried in a bush. Basically invisible, the only way I found him was my dog relocated and pointed it from like 3 inches.

I don't own one now but have owned several and trained several for others. I wouldn't take a Shadow's Attitude pup for free. You own one Elkhunter good for you. Let me know when you've dealt with 25 or so and then we can talk. I'm not saying there aren't nice ones out of him but the majority I have seen are garbage.

Brenda I was just pulling your chain a little. Relax. Have a coke and a

.

TrueBlu Shorthairs · Post by **TrueBlu Shorthairs** » Wed Jul 02, 2008 11:35 am

I'll bet you Jessie, you've never had one dog out of him, want the bet?

jessie · Post by **jessie** » Wed Jul 02, 2008 1:58 pm

I need money. How much are we talking?

Elkhunter · Post by **Elkhunter** » Wed Jul 02, 2008 2:05 pm

Jessie I have noticed that you always have a strong opinion about alot of things. And you blow a pretty loud horn, do you have the experiences and results to back it up? Do you have dogs that you have trained and handled to championships? Or hunt tests? Or NSTRA? Or anything? I dont see a pedigree of any of your dogs, no link to your web site, all I see is that you have 60 posts. What have you accomplished that makes you a great judge of a dogs ability? Just curious.
EH

vzkennels · Post by **vzkennels** » Wed Jul 02, 2008 2:09 pm

Blake I know where you going with this bet!!

jessie · Post by **jessie** » Wed Jul 02, 2008 2:21 pm

Elkhunter wrote:Jessie I have noticed that you always have a strong opinion about alot of things. And you blow a pretty loud horn, do you have the experiences and results to back it up? Do you have dogs that you have trained and handled to championships? Or hunt tests? Or NSTRA? Or anything? I dont see a pedigree of any of your dogs, no link to your web site, all I see is that you have 60 posts. What have you accomplished that makes you a great judge of a dogs ability? Just curious.
EH

Elk I'm not on here telling everyone how great I am or how my kennel is better then anyone else. Fact is, I don't have a kennel. I have a few nice dogs that I run and hunt and a couple old horses that haven't killed me yet and I do have first hand knowledge of Shadow's Attitude pups from having them myself and training them for others. People jump on my case here because I'm not a sheep and I don't follow along with everyone else. I guess that's why I'm successful today is because I've gone my own way and not followed so I take the criticism with a grain of salt. It's ok I really don't mind. You can't speak your mind freely and not be open to others doing it also. I don't have all the answers thats for sure but then again no one does.

Please don't come here and talk about Shadow's Attitude dogs being the greatest thing ever when you have one. Do your homework better next time Elk and read my post completely also. That helps too. Shadow's Attitude is a nice animal and throws some nice pups just the same as Miller's White Powder used to but both dogs throw known problems and that's all I'm getting at. Everyone here is so serious and defensive I love it!

I have bred/raised/trained/handled a few nice dogs that have won in all venues from SD to NSTRA to AKC Horseback events. Thing is Elk, when you're good at what you do then you don't need to come onto a rinky dink message like this and tell everyone about. Just go out and trial and people will see for themselves. My dogs toot my horn. I don't need to.

Elkhunter · Post by **Elkhunter** » Wed Jul 02, 2008 3:13 pm

Jessie,
Read my post, I never said Cash dogs were the best but you were one to point out their faults. I said I like mine and have high hopes for him. I will be trialing him this fall so I will let you know how he does. You may not be saying it in specific words how good you are but you toot a pretty loud horn as to your opinion, which is fine by me, but usually people can sometimes back up what they say. If you have had some great dogs with some accomplishments what are the dogs names? What have they won? What titles do they have? Its pretty easy to look that stuff up. NSTRA posts it and so does the Field and AKC. Lets see the wins you have, then people might feel that your someone who has enough experience to make the claims you do. So far all I know is your jessie with 60 posts. And I can tell you why people get defensive, its pretty simple, Ross posts a picture of a guys dog, which obviously the guy is proud of, you get on here and talk down about his dog common sense would say he would probably take offence to it. Thats just me though.

EH

If your dogs toot your horn, I wanna hear the music. Lets hear what you have accomplished. Thanks

WildRose · Post by **WildRose** » Wed Jul 02, 2008 4:11 pm

Jessie you don't have to be a sheep to get along here, but basic manners and being polite goes a long way.

Elk, your suggestion sounds like a nice one,

If you have had some great dogs with some accomplishments what are the dogs names? What have they won? What titles do they have? Its pretty easy to look that stuff up. NSTRA posts it and so does the Field and AKC. Lets see the wins you have, then people might feel that your someone who has enough experience to make the claims you do.

but I've tried that a couple of times when I tired of one particular bully.

On both occasions my posts were deleted and I got a nasty letter from the principal. CR

Elkhunter · Post by **Elkhunter** » Wed Jul 02, 2008 4:29 pm

CR, You would think it would be common sense. Anyways, I sent my EP off to get broke and run in some trails this fall so I was looking at some of the premiums of the trials from the last couple of years that he competes in and I saw your name a couple of times. I have my dog out with Ben Garcia of Hideaway Kennels, so if you run in any with him keep an eye out for my crazy dog! I might even fly out there for a weekend and watch him run.
EH
Also there was an ad in the local paper for a dog out of your Moose dog. I guess the guys kid has allergies and he was selling him. Started out asking $1500 then the last price I saw was $250. I told my friend to jump on it but his wife said no. Good looking dog though.

WildRose · Post by **WildRose** » Wed Jul 02, 2008 4:54 pm

Must be from a litter that Moose was used for stud for up there. Too bad I hope they find him a good home.

Ben is a good trainer and a good guy. I saw he and his string a few weeks ago at the Britt trial in CO. He's obviously back to working hard because his dogs did very well in all the stakes they were entered in.

I'll give you an example of what kind of guy he is. A couple of years ago he and Henri came down to NM to one of our trials. I had three dogs that had nice runs in the OGD but none I really felt were "in it". I was busy taking care of dogs and horses and Ben comes over to the camp carrying a bunch of ribbons and a smile. Well he walks over shakes my hand and congratulates me on my big win. Perplexed I asked what he was talking about. He handed me the ribbon for my first win in an Adult stake. Moose had taken a 4 point major!

That will always be my first real impression of Ben Garcia.

With fuel prices continuing to rise I'm not sure just how much trialing I'll do next season but if I get up that way and see ben I'll be sure and give your boy an ear scratch. CR

Chief_dog · Post by **Chief_dog** » Wed Jul 02, 2008 5:35 pm

LOL, that's funny guys. I got a call from Ben this morning. Like Charlie, I hadn't talked to him since the britt trial in May. Small world.

PntrRookie · Post by **PntrRookie** » Wed Jul 02, 2008 7:01 pm

Blake. I, like vz, am intrigued as well. I will see your bet and raise the pot if you have a "taker" on that one. Count me in.

As far as crank...like the "style" and would like to try my luck on finding birds behind (in front of) a dog like that. Hit or miss, I like the looks of it. Dog here in the WI region has the same crank and is a 5x champion. His breeding is MY SOUTHERN BELLE x CH HONKY TONK HIGH RISE - go figure!

TrueBlu Shorthairs · Post by **TrueBlu Shorthairs** » Thu Jul 03, 2008 7:03 am

Jessie and Rookie, I wouldn't want to take your money. VZ understands. You cannot win the bet unless my few biology classes in high school and college all lied to me.

PntrRookie · Post by **PntrRookie** » Thu Jul 03, 2008 7:15 am

TrueBlu Shorthairs wrote:Jessie and Rookie, I wouldn't want to take your money. VZ understands. You cannot win the bet unless my few biology classes in high school and college all lied to me.

I too (like VZ) "understand" that is why I am willing to throw some money YOUR way and up the anti to Jessie.

You got some good odds there, I think you were taught right in your early years!