Vet giving same shots as breeder did over again ?

[Jon]

When you pick up your puppy from the breeder they give you a list of shots the pup has already had. ( shot record )

Then when you take the pup to your vet and have him started on his puppy plan exam and shots, is it normal for the vet to give all the shots all over again if you don't have papers from a "vet office" showing what he has already received ?

My Vet office said they have to give all shots over again if the pup doesn't have a shot record from a vet office. They will not accept anything from the breeder as proof of a shot record.

I think most breeders give their own shots, so why would the vet need to give the same shots over again ?

Is This Standard ?

Could it cause any health problems ?

Thanks

[ezzy333]

If its your pup I think you can decide what shots you want but I'm sure many vets aren't going to quaranteee the results if they didnt give them all.

I think it is just a way of protecting themselves and making some extra money.

Ezzy

[kninebirddog]

Thats about it....They say things making it sound like they are the only ones that can give shots and that they have the special brand which you can not buy....So ask them what the potential probl;ems could be by Way over vaccinating......
My vet will look at a record and finsih a series...But will not over step his bounds Thank fully

[Jon]

We paid for the puppy plan which covers exam and all shots along with any future exams if he gets sick during the first 6 mo. so the vet is not making any more money by giving shots.

The only way he would make more money under the puppy plan is if the puppy needed special meds other than the standard shots.

Since he has nothing to gain by giving the shots over again I was wondering why he would do this when it cost him more money.

Maybe it is to cover their practice and be able to stand behind their puppy plan.

I just wanted to make sure my pup's health was not at risk giving him the same shots twice.

Thanks

[Kurzhaar]

If he takes your word that the dogs were vaccinated, then the pups get sick who is at fault?

Were I a vet I would be very skeptical for the simple fact of litigation prevention. Pretty sad, but that is the world we now live in.

Jim

[birddog]

Just sold a pup and gave the new owners a health record which included the shots I had given and the product used and told the new owners to take the record along when they had the pup "Vet"checked.. The Vet not only gave the pup a shot on top of the one I gave him but also drew blood for heart worm and charged them for a fecal exame when the record showed the pup was wormed 3 times in her 8 weeks of life. Since heart worm can't be detected until 7 months after expoisure to the bite, I feel the Vet is ripping them off and my suggestion was to change Vets. The once a year booster shot I have been told by my Vet is just another way to bring in the bucks. The reason we give shots at 6-8-12-16 is to build up an imunity and once done is all that is needed for life. Seems everything is about money these days.

Janet

[grant]

The vets want $ and to keep there customer’s dog healthy. If I was one, I would want to give the shot to my customers too, so I don’t blame them.

However, I ran into the same problem with Kage and my vet. I just denied their treatment and asked for the rabies shot only. I caught some heck from them, but I gave all the others myself. The only bad part about doing the shots myself is if I take the dog to them for boarding, they'll want to give him shots before they’ll take him because they have no record of any. We just send them elsewhere for vacations...

Grant

[Greg Jennings]

You have to play hard-ball with them.

I've got a great relationship with my vet. He understands that I'm an educated consumer. I understand that he has a family to feed.

I try to strike a middle ground.

I also think it helps our relationship that he knows when something not so good happened to my older dog in the care of someone else and they got physical with me about it when I confronted them, that I radically dislocated their right elbow and spit in their face while they were on their knees crying.

I'm pretty intense about my wife, my kids and my dogs.

Best,

[mountaindogs]

I have always wondered about this myself and have often given my own shots - It can be amazingly cheaper!
Since I have started working at the local emergency animal clinic I have been enlightened in this topic greatly in many directions.

First - I have personally seen and helped treat 4 puppies with parvo in the last month that "recieved vaccinations" from their breeders or owners. (and maybe a dozen others who never revieved a vaccine at all, I only work part time mind you)

Secondly I have met several "breeders" who are not as educated as most of you, and yet breed as many as 6-10 litters a year. They go to the local co-op and buy the standard shot, 7-in-1 shot or whatever, and give it to their little puppies without noticing that they just gave "modified live" vaccine to a 1 pound puppy who is not strong enough to fight that. (True case, puppy died.) They truly care, I believe they just don't educate themselves as much as the could.

Thirdly - Are you SURE that the place where you buy your vaccines keeps them refrigerated AT ALL TIMES. I am good friends with the local co-op owners and I ask them about it, to make sure they take the right steps to unpack right away and refrigerate the vaccines right away. I trust them. Vets have been known to slack on this too. Shipment comes in while they are really busy, the receptionist forgets about it till afternoon and well, you can imagine, so it's not who you get it from as much as how it's been handled.

I think vets have seen alot to make them a little distrustful. Don't hold it against them. Just educate yourself, talk with your vet, and help them to see that you aren't one of those. If your not comfortable with your vet, look at some others. If you weren't comfortable with your doctor, would you still trust him with your life?

That's my 2cents worth...

Laurie

[Jon]

In my case the puppy plan cost a flat fee which covers everything.

So we know the vet is not giving the repeat shots to make money. This would eliminate any of those assumptions.

My concern was about the pups health.

Will giving the shots that the breeder already gave cause any health problems ?

Good idea Grant.
Also if we needed to board the dog it would be a local kennel which would require a shot record. If the breeder did not have a vet shot record and we refused to allow our vet to give all shots over again, this may cause a problem with boarding. So you don't have a lot of choices unless you can show proof that repeating the shots causes health problems. Do you ?

I just wanted to ask if repeating shots caused any health prob.
It wasn't about the money.

Next time it may be about the money, but not this time

[birddog]

[quote][/quote] In my case the puppy plan cost a flat fee which covers everything.

I have never heard of a Vet pre paid puppy plan. Just what is it and what does it cover?

Janet

[Buzz]

It seems the general question was "is giving the pup those shots again a health concern". I would think there is no short answer to that. If the dog has not reacted by now, probably not. But it's not optimal to receive them again. Vaccinations sometimes cause adverse reactions, so getting an extra dose would seem to increase the odds.
I vaccinated myself to avoid the combo shot. I went through a similar situation with my vet.

[Grey Ghost]

I just wanted to ask if repeating shots caused any health prob.

Did you express your concern to your vet? Since you're comfortable that they're not ripping you off, are you more concerned that your vet is too cavalier or simply incompetant?

My current dog is the first one that I'd had for quite a while. So, I did lots of reading before bringing her home. There are a lot of people out there that caution against multiple vaccinations in one shot (including the Weimaraner Club of America). When my vet wanted to give the multiple shot, I spoke up, but was put at ease. Baisically, my vet put it this way: As the owner, they'd follow whatever schedule I wanted, but they felt it was important to get through the vaccination process quickly. Moreover concerns about health risks of the multiple vac shots are real, but no more real than concerns over the diseases themselves. As of about a year and a half ago (when I got my dog) there had unfortunately been very little research regarding just how likely a multiple vaccination was to result in problems.

The moral:
Don't mess with Greg. :violent1:
Sorry, I just couldn't help myself.

The real moral:
Since you know that in this case your vet is not motivated by the money, I'd say your vet probably thinks the risk of not giving the extra shot is greater than the risk from the shot itself. I'd give him/her the benefit of the doubt.

[birddog]

In my case the puppy plan cost a flat fee which covers everything.

I have never heard of a Vet. pre paid, puppy plan. Just what is it and what does it cover?

Janet

Jon, I went back and read your post on the puppy plan. I still have never heard of a puppy plan and am wondering how much this plan cost you? How many office visits, etc.

Janet

[Jon]

I was trying to keep my first post short and simple but after reading your replies, maybe I should have put all the details in there. Sorry !

I did ask about repeating shots that the breeder already gave and was told that unless I can provide a shot record from another vet they will be giving all shots again. I then asked if they can give 1-2 shots per visit rather than a multi vac. or several shots on one visit. They agreed to only give 1-2 shots per visit so I could watch for any reactions. That means I have to make more trips to the vet office but that's fine. My vet has been in buss. for 30+ yrs. in the same location and is one of the largest facilities in the state. He has experience with sporting breeds and is personally doing the exams.

I feel he is covering himself with repeating shots and doesn't feel it will cause a prob. or the minor prob. it may cause is less than not repeating shots if everything was not what I claimed etc.

The question still remains unanswered.

Is there any proof that repeating shots / vac. will cause health prob.

Not giving multi shot vac. but giving 1-2 shots per visit that happens to have already been given by the breeder weeks before.


As for puppy plans covering everything:

Call information operator and ask for vet. office's in Lakeland, FL call and you will find 8 out of 10 offer puppy plans that cover everything for the first 6 mo. to 1 yr. ( Exams and standard shots, if you need aditional meds for something out of the ordinary or if the pup breaks a leg it is not covered under the plan.)

I personally called all vet offices and then toured and interviewed most of the vet office in Lakeland before making a decision. I'm as confident as I can be with the decision I made but..... I don't trust doctors either

Never hurts to ask if someone may know of this causing a prob. and can offer proof if it does. If I felt the vet was a higher risk than another I would switch, but I think he is just covering himself and making sure the pup is vac. for everything.

Thanks for your help!

[dhondtm]

get a new vet.

I ran into this problem with a new vet in the office I go to. I'll just briefly describe my incident and let you decide. It came down to a pissing match; basically the new vet had a hatred towards breeders and insisted that puppies can not be over vaccinated.

I tend to disagree with that statement and tend to believe dogs CAN be over vaccinated and that doesn't exclude puppies.

Our original vet at this office has always been good to us, but I got into it with his new staff. They basically told me they would with hold her completion certificate until I repeated her vaccinations. I straightened it all out with my original vet and told him I do not want to be assigned to his new staff ever again.

[Casper]

as far as my knowledge goes is that this will not cause any problems. If memory serves the vaccines are "dead" it is only a way for the bodys immune system to build an immunity. So I would think that an extra shot(s) is only goining to help with the immunity.

I quit trying to argue the point with my vet after I got my latest pup. I took in all the info that the breeder gave. The product, time given where he got it, etc. it was still denied.

I will just have to trust his decision because he has the education and the experience.

[birddog]

What is wrong with just saying NO to the shots? No Vet can force shots on you. It is your choice. If you are confident your breeder has given the proper shots then tell the vet you don't want any. He/ she gets paid for the office call and I believe you are there to get a health check on your puppy. If that is all that is needed for your first visit then tell your vet exactly what you want. You should make the decision what is to be done.

Janet

[markj]

The vet works for you, you do not work for him.

I order my vacs from Omaha vaccine then go pick them up the next day, give them when I get home. I keep records of all shots. The vet only gives my dogs rabies and heartwork, I do everything else.

[snips]

Rick & I are the breeders in question here. We have used shots ordered from Revival the last few yrs. They get here still cold in ice pacs in a ice chest, I am sure it`s the same way a vet gets them. They are the Ft Dodge Duramune Puppyshot and Puppyshot Booster. I give 2 shots before they leave here, at 5 wks and 7 wks. I recommend they are shot again at 9-12-6 mo-1 yr. This has worked for us flawlessly for quite a few yrs. My only concern with giving more shots than are needed is possible autoimmune problems I have heard can be caused by over vaccinating. I don`t know what is actually over vaccinating, but I hope a vet would only have the best interest of the pup at heart and not overdo it. I don`t think there are any total quarantees when you are dealing with vaccines, but I think our record is very sound.

[birddog]

I am with you snips. I have been told that a 4 shot program is enough to cover a dogs immune system. I also have been told a vet can give some kind of a test that will tell if the dogs immunity has been covered and once covered it is for life. No need for that once a year booster.

Janet

[kninebirddog]

we do about the same thing 5 7 and recommend the owners to finish with 9 11 and 13 weeks ...this way the vet gets his pokes in and if a Vet isn't happy with that i would seek another vet.

this vet is obviously showing signs of thinking people who dont have his education are incapable of giving shots..whatever his EXCUSE is...i need a vet to work with me as we have many dogs. I am not going to be the one to pay for his entire education...that is what the rest of his life is for. My vet is a great one ..he is more concerned about the animal then his wallet and in return he has a very happy life comfortable living kids going to college and even though i have alot of dog his entire retirement plan wasn't built off of one visit from me.
that is what i feel from vets that have that type of do it my way only mentality

brenda you can give all my dogs their shots..i trust you BIG TIME including the microchips ...man those are hugh bob doesn't like to do the little pups but I feel better send ing them home with them just incase and we do those ourselves also

[Jon]

Rick & I are the breeders in question here.

The only question here was if the vet gives vac. shots over again even though the breeder already gave the 5-7 wk. shots.

Will this cause health problems ????????????????????????

Will this cause health problems ????????????????????????

Will this cause health problems ????????????????????????


That's it !

It's amazing to me that so many people can read a post but only a couple have actually tried to answer the original question ?

This had nothing to do with placing blame. It was for my own piece of mind. People's reply to what they thought they read is how this all started off topic.

The fact is that this pup has already had the shots again and changing vets now won't make a bit of diff. so let's stick to the question.

If you don't know the facts as to weather or not this will cause health problems then you really don't have a answer to the question.

Now that I have made it very clear what my original question was your welcome to continue off in any direction you like. Just don't start pointing fingers at me when you don't like the out come.

I've been down this road before, haven't I Brenda.

[kninebirddog]

Thats about it....They say things making it sound like they are the only ones that can give shots and that they have the special brand which you can not buy....So ask them what the potential probl;ems could be by Way over vaccinating......
My vet will look at a record and finsih a series...But will not over step his bounds Thank fully

this was my first post which was about the 2nd or 3rd response to this on page 1

[Buzz]

Topics often stray, particularly interesting ones such as this. There is no short answer to your question. Vaccinations can cause health problems in any dose. A person is killed or permanently disabled every 12 hours from a vaccination. Give and extra one, increase the chances. But, dogs have been given extra doses and been fine. So it’s a numbers game and your vet increased the odds. So if you question is “could it cause problems” as stated in your first post, the answer is yes. If your question is “will it cause problems” as stated in your subsequent post, the answer is maybe, maybe not.

[mountaindogs]

I think most breeders give their own shots, so why would the vet need to give the same shots over again ?

Is This Standard ?

Could it cause any health problems ?

Thanks

Seems to me you asked 3 questions originally... all reasonable ones.

3. I'm not a vet and can't discuss health problems like that, just don't have the knowledge. There's one or two vet's on this forum, I would love to hear their opinions too. Some have given their anwers to this

2. Others indicated that their vet also did similar repeat vaccinations, so I would conclude that if not standard then, common at least.

1. Why? This is the one I tried to answer.

My dog came from Rick and Brenda last year, and I have the utmost confidence in their practices. They are both extremely knowlegable and I seek their advice probably too much. I don't think anyone here questioned that, but I DO think the VET you see doesn't know them, and wants the best for your puppy. And I have met several vets that don't have a fondness for breeders. This is a topic for another discussion, I guess.

I do agree that we all strayed from answering all of your questions. In my case, I only answered the one I felt qualified to answer. Sorry if I dragged the topic more off base, I was just trying to help. After you reiterated your desire for the answer to the third question, I bowed out of the conversation, I just don't know the health effects. I'm glad you asked though, because it seems a lot of puppies get re-vaccinated and if there is a risk I too would like to know.

Now, off the subject...
Thanks Rick and Brenda for a great dog! We all love him! The toddler is climbing over him right now getting his feet licked and laughing!

Jon,
That is one good looking liver pup! Which litter was he from? Sally & Fritz?

Laurie

[Grey Ghost]

Will this cause health problems ????????????????????????

Jon,
Although my post related an experience regarding the combo shots and not repeated shots, I believe the situation is similar. The point I was trying to get across is that my vet had made it very clear to me that NO ONE (no vet, no breeder, no anybody) really knows whether there will be a problem. Sure, lot's of people can cite anecdotal evidence and common sense would dictate that it's not good to inject a puppy with infectious diseases (think of it as poison) unless it's absolutely necessary. There may even be some real scientific evidence to suggest that there could be problems, but that's a long way from proof (i.e. more research is needed). The millions of dollars that have been spent on veterinary research are a small fraction of what has been spent on human medical research and there's still so much unknown in that field (even for something as common place as childhood innoculations).

Since your vet was getting paid either way, it seems that he was choosing what he considered the safer route and not doing something he considered unecessary just to make a buck (remember he doesn't know Rick & Brenda from Adam & Eve). As you said, he's been doing this for 30 years. His opinion is at least as good as anyone elses. That being said, if I expressed concern to my vet and the only answer I got was "if you can't prove it was given, we're giving it again", without any attempt to put my mind at ease; I would have fuming. That's not an attack on your vet or on you. However, some vets (like doctors) don't do a very good job of explaining things. This guy might turn out to be a great vet for you, but it sounds like your going to have to be a little pushy (to get him to explain his position).

[Jon]

I've continued to research the question. There are many diff. opinions, As I'm sure you know. But for those who want to read up on it a little, Here are a few links that are easy to reach. I didn't want to copy and paste pages of info. You can do a search on autoimmune and find enough reading if you like. I was hoping somebody else had done this and could save me some time.

http://www.thepetcenter.com/exa/vac.html

http://www.ashgi.org/articles/immune_rising_storm.htm

http://bccc.pair.com/autoimmu.htm

Seems the biggest prob. is blamed on multi-vac. in one shot when puppies or dogs are stressed / weak. ( somebody mentioned that)

But they also are concerned about some of the problems being passed on by the parents and then being blamed on the vac. because that is the first time it is triggered.

When the type of shot issued changes from multi-vac. to many seperate shots over time the whole outcome just changed.

If the dog is vac. every year with a multi-vac. vs seperate shots every 2-3 yrs. the outcome changes considerably.

The experts feel the pros far outweigh the cons but do admit concerns about giving multi-vac every year or even vac. every year.
( Too many every year over time is the biggest concern )

Nobody can say for sure because every dog is diff. just like every person is diff. and what affects one will not always effect the other. It depends on so many factors that nobody can say you will cause health problems by allowing the vet to give the 5 & 7 wk. shots over again based on what I could find.

I did find a statement that you shouldn't worm and give vac. at the same visit. And you shouldn't give the rabies with any other vac. but I don't recall if that was a statement from a vet or a study. I know my vet gave my puppy his worm med. and vac. shot on the same day and he had the runs for one day after that. And the article said it was from doing both on the same day. ( maybe it was, or maybe it was caused by the stress or a combo of it all ? Next time I will tell them not to worm him if he is getting any shots and see what happens)

But for anyone to generalize that giving the vac. to this dog caused these problems, which means you shouldn't do it for all dogs is not an accurate statement and this is how myths & misinformation spreads.

If anyone can find a long term study published in the past 2 yrs. by a university showing proof that vac. will cause health prob. or repeating a couple of the puppies shots his first year seperately will cause problems I would love to read them.

At this time there doesn't appear to be any solid proof on the subject.

It is so complex and our laws have made the decision for some vets. I feel nobody will ever prove what exactly causes each problem so people just say don't do it when they don't have an answer.

But what about the problems vac. prevents ?

It's obviously a topic that could go on forever with no answer, but it gave everybody something to think about. :roll:

Good Luck and thanks for all your help.


PS: mountaindogs,

Ammo is from Kirby & Rebel. He is doing GREAT ! This topic had nothing to do with Rick & Brenda other than concern about Ammo getting his 5 & 7 wk. shots over again. I wanted to educate myself on the possible health problems.

[mountaindogs]

PS: mountaindogs,

Ammo is from Kirby & Rebel. He is doing GREAT ! This topic had nothing to do with Rick & Brenda other than concern about Ammo getting his 5 & 7 wk. shots over again. I wanted to educate myself on the possible health problems.

Glad to hear he's doing well. He is one nice looking puppy! I hope you'll post some future pics for us to see... can't have enough puppy pictures!
Do you live in the TN, GA, AL area? maybe I'll see you at some future hunt tests or something.

Thanks for researching that... I'll get to reading now!

Laurie