Hunt Tests

[Kory]

This past weekend our Weim club held one of our hunt tests and it brought up some questions. Our quail this time were very good birds which was great but it also seemed to bring up some issues.

First is that buy Sunday there were birds everywhere coveyed up from all of Sat and some of the MH and SH didn't enjoy that so much and the idea was brought up that for next we should run the MH and SH on a seperate course to avoid this. Is this a common practice.

Someone also commented almost in a complaining way that the birds flushed like wild birds. Is this not ideal?

I also wanted any tips or advide of what others have done to add to the success of there clubs tests as this is the only the third Hunt Test that I have attended all of which are with this club so I'm still lurning.

Everyone feel free to add any additional quiestions about Hunt Tests as well.

I'm all for doing what we can to give the dogs a chance, but should dogs at the SH and MH level be able to deal with a large covey? I believe that the guy with the idea of seperate courses did have a situation that where his dog was on point and a seprate group of 30 birds came running in all around and underneath him and he broke and was picked up which is an extream amound of presure for a SH dog and alot of dogs would have broke. This was close to the end of time and the dog had a beautiful run up to that point with several clean finds with a retrive, stop to flush, and a honor.

I also realise there know way to please everyone and with planted birds and a setup hunting situation that strange things happen and if it were easy that the title wouldn't be worth as much, but I'm just trying to figure out what might be ligit gripes and if there is anything that can be done with those to help better our Hunt Test.

[Ruffshooter]

I see no reason to change anything. The complainers are just that. Too good of flying birds????? That is just silly. I have been tossed out a couple times because my dog broke when confronted with being surrounded by coveys of quail or chuckars. The only complaint I had is regarding my lack of preperation. Fair for the dogs is to be put into as close to wild hunting situation as you can reasonably muster. When training you need to train for the unexpected or for possible situations.

Good birds, Good judges that are not A&&es, Good food, good safe grounds, good shooters, good helpers, What else is really needed.

[Kory]

It seems that we may have the good food part covered as we had some requests for items that we had at the Jan test sent in with some entries for this test, but my wife being the cook put together a seprate menu for the Nov test because of the warmer weather.

[phermes1]

We have separate courses for SH/MH and JH. Mainly so we can fit in more entries without running till dark.

I don't believe there's such a thing as a bird that flies too well. I'll take them over a walker any day of the week.

Where are you running and how many birds are put out for each brace that a dog encounters a covey of 30?!?!?

[Kory]

12 birds were put out first to seed the course and 2 between each brace and I believe that another 12 were put out after the lunch break. We only had the large groups on Sunday after all of the birds that were planted on Sat (for the 18 braces) coveyed up overnight as all of the tests are run on the same course. Of course some of the same people that commented about too many birds went birdless on Sat.

Kory

[Kory]

The test was in Alvord, TX and as far a the 30 that came from the handler so he may have been a little blown out proportion but the gunners did say that they were everywhere. I was planting birds so I only saw the run from a distance and didn't see all or the birds first hand but I did see several finds and bumped birds in groups of 5 to 10.

[Sharon]

LOL LOL ( not laughing at you but at the complaint)
Heaven forbid the quail should covey up or fly like "real wild birds".

I think that's great on both counts.
Really gives a dog a chance to show what he has.

Heavan forbid we have to start to "dummy" down the course so enough dogs pass.

You hear similiar crabbing when not enough dogs place at local pointing breed trials - "The judge should give out all 4 placements. We all paid our money."

In other words, " Let's lower the standards."

Please!!! ( You got me going here,

PS Did you say you were the bird planter? It's all you're fault.

[shags]

My club runs Masters first, then Seniors, then Juniors. No need for separate courses that way; why make things more complicated than we have to?

[Kory]

We do the same for the test on Sat but also have a test on Sun as well and all are run on the same course.

[Ruffshooter]

Kory, I have not planted for an AKC test but it seems to me that in the courses I have run they only put out 6 birds in the killing field then three or four there after depending on how many were taken and if they know the prior birds are still in the field. I may be wrong. The test up here usually do run two days, starting with MH.

I know in the NAVHDA test we do the 6 and four.

[phermes1]

We usually seed with 8-10 birds and release 2 per brace thereafter. If conditions are tough and dogs are having issues finding birds, we'll increase that #.

Some folks plant JH like 'the more birds, the better'; I hate that. I want a reasonable shot that a dog that makes an effort will have a bird. I don't want a minefield where young dogs spend 15-20 minutes catching bird after bird after bird.

[CherrystoneWeims]

A well trained MH level dog worth its salt should be able to handle large coveys. It it can't then it shouldn't be a MH titled dog.

That's the whole problem. Many of these people are just playing the HT game and never get their dogs out wild bird hunting.

[ezzy333]

A well trained MH level dog worth its salt should be able to handle large coveys. It it can't then it shouldn't be a MH titled dog.

That's the whole problem. Many of these people are just playing the HT game and never get their dogs out wild bird hunting.

I don't see that as a problem but just a product of where we live. Really good that those people are interested in doing the hunt test as well as any other activity with their dogs.

Ezzy

[phermes1]

I don't see that as a problem but just a product of where we live. Really good that those people are interested in doing the hunt test as well as any other activity with their dogs.

Ezzy

I agree.

[original mngsp]

my observations.

1. Anyone that complains about birds being "like wild birds" should be beaten severely and thrown into a deep ditch. Geez, when i plant birds in a bird field or on course they are planted lightly. Lets see that master or senior dog crowd a bird and have it get up and fly away like a real bird would. Even though its a game we ought to do the best we can to simulate natural wild hunting conditions.

2. Too many birds. This is complex and often times related to the size bird field that is being used. When you go to a test and the "bird field" being used is 1.5 acres or less and is loaded with a dozen or more birds there is a problem. What is created there is a situation where a good dog is penalized and a piece of "bleep" boot licker is rewarded. Im far from a guy that thinks one well handled bird find is all that is needed in a SH/MH test, depending on conditions. But what happens in lots of these tests is that the inferior type dog is overhandled around the course avoiding "trouble" finds and handles its one bird, makes the retrieve and waits for a call back for the honor. In the meantime the hard hunting, good moving, good nosed, seasoned hunting dog either blows out of the little postage stamp sized bird field and starts to hunt edges where he is penalized by judges for not having any handle. You hack him back in and he procedes to find bird after bird and eventually takes too many steps on his 7th find. thats BS.

Plant em light, put out enough birds, but not too many, use a big bird field (5-15 acres) if you can, or a single course with no bird field. Get judges that reward someone who shows them a true MH dog rather than someone that just "beats the test today"

I hate when people brag up a MH title on how great it is and when you really get to see how it was earned it is a let down. The MH title when properly earned is an incredible achievement and should be held in high regard. But it like many other "titles" can be cheaply earned and all that does is cheapen it for the folks that have done it right.