definition of a started dog

[kriplur]

I looked at a lot of "started" dog ads and i was thinking of what everyones thought was on what actually is a started dog and does a criteria exist or is it just what different trainers opinions are. what should a "started" dog be able to do and at what age.

[vzkennels]

The question is one of the hardest to define because started means something different to almost everyone.It can be anything from a pup that has been introed to gun & birds to a dog that has been hunted over but not broke.

[Sharon]

See this thread for some good info.

http://www.gundogforum.com/forum/viewto ... 35#p147435

[snips]

Started to me would be JH level.

[topher40]

It could mean anything from started to eat, to started holding birds. Best to call for more information and the seller should be able to tell you more of what they think started is by their description of the dog. No different than ads for "Green Broke" horses, everyone has their own interpretation.

[Prairie Hunter]

There is such a variance in what people consider to be a started dog. It’s best to talk to the seller to see what their opinion of a started dog is. That way, so you know what you’re getting, and you can compare it to other “started” dogs.

[Ruffshooter]

The Started dog question is a good one and one that deserves a good answer. Unfortunately, No group seems to be able to commit to what a started dog is. It should not be that hard to come up with a final definition that could help clear up the mud and one that breeders agree to. So why is it so difficult? (Ego, pride, laziness? worried their dogs don't progress as quickly as other?)

Okay, If the full time breeders won't come up with on definition then I will.

It is alive and well.
It has been put on birds regularly and points 8 out of 10 birds reliably.(not reliably steady)
It is Introduced to guns and not gun shy.
Basic commands in place, (come, whoa, Kennel)

There you all go a Started dog. Adopt the standard and accept it.

We all know what rare, medium, or well done steak is.
We all know when tires are no longer inspectable.

[RayGubernat]

Rufshooter -

Your "definition " seems to me to be a good bit further along than started. Any dog that s pointing and holding is farther along than started, inmy view.

However, that being said, I do agree with your steak analogy and would like to expand it a bit.

Everyone should and does indeed know what rare, medium and well done mean. But I ask you this...how many times have you seen a medium steak come out gray and burnt, through and through, or a medium steak come out of the kitchen still moving and bleeding? What happens when you say ; "This isn't right. Tkae it back because I am not paying for this?

The restaurant personnel knew very well what a medium steak should be but that wasn't what they had at hand, so they tried to sell you what they had instead of what you asked for.

RayG

[kninebirddog]

or how many have ordered rare only for it to moo and kick back when you cut into it

Started has been introduced to everything will still need training but has had the basics begun

will point but as stated not reliable on point with out some guidance

I always love the people who come out wanting a started dog and expect a broke dog

to me a broke dog is a dog with plenty of work under its belt so to speak

now the one that cracks me up is the so called breeders who can't sell their puppies then when the pup is 6 months old selling them as broke dogs and I feel sorry for the people who fall for it

[postoakshorthairs]

The issue I see with the "rare-well done" thought is that almost everyone I've ever ordered with has their own interpretation of what "medium-rare" means to them. I've seen it posted somewhere before that a "started" dog is anything short of finished...which leaves a huge gap between. I see a huge difference in what some buyers want in a "started" dog. The wild bird hunters...for the most part...in my area want a "started" dog to be introduced to birds and at least starting to hold birds, shot over and to come to them when called. I've had others call and want them to point/back/retrieve along with all yard comands and a couple of circus tricks. I think the easiest way is for the buyer/seller to have frank discussions on what exactly the dog will do. I try to be very specific when I post a dog for sale on what the dog will and will not do, but still spend countless hours on the phone and email re-hashing the information that was in the ad. Just my two cents worth

[Ruffshooter]

All though when one orders their steak rare, There is a standard which chefs learn (watch Chef Ramsey)

I just seems to me that a standard could be contrived per definition then when a person goes to see the started dog they already would know the "definition" and understand fairly well what they are seeing (unless a complete novice or new to gun dogs). Perhaps, I have the pointing going a little far but I think you all understand where I am coming from. Although different, There are different levels for Hunt tests as written as a standard, it could be done.
VC, UT1, UT 2, UT 3, NA 1,2,3,
MH, SH, JH

Any way

[Meller]

In my opioun, One should do just what they do with thier steak; look at it to see if it is as advertized; the cook prepare's the steak as he percieves it was ordered, the started dog
should perform as advertized ( perform the task's that is advertized) and still needs to be seen to see if done correct.

[owen]

We offer different levels of "started" and specifically describe where each dog is in training. Our top started dog is steady to wing and shot, retrieving 100% and has had a number of birds shot over it. Training levels are priced accordingly and we will demonstrate any dog on request.

[prairiefirepointers]

Okay, If the full time breeders won't come up with on definition then I will.

It is alive and well.
It has been put on birds regularly and points 8 out of 10 birds reliably.(not reliably steady)
It is Introduced to guns and not gun shy.
Basic commands in place, (come, whoa, Kennel)

There you all go a Started dog. Adopt the standard and accept it.

Wow...

I am relitively new, but I break our "started dogs" up into 3 levels. I know someone else who does it and it works well. That way you can better explain to customers why this started dog is $750 and the another one is $1250 and so on.
The aforementioned definition (minus the Whoa breaking) would fall under MY definition of a level 1.