The "Darkside"-Can't believe he did it

[muddycreek]

Talked to my brother the other day and he had big news. He went out and bought himself a pointer pup! So far in his life his experience with pointing dogs has been with my GSP bitch on her first season and honestly she was a bird busting and runnin machine, so I have the feeling he was less than impressed, and where I grew up 98% of the dogs are labs. I could hardly keep from bustin out laughin when he told me the news. All I could think was that he has never been one to try anything half way! I told him that he just bought a Ferreri so hold on!

Well good luck bro and have an enjoyable summer, we'll get together this fall and my shorthairs will teach your pointer how its done!!


(I told him to join this forum so you may witness a "family fued" in the makin!)

[birdogg42]

Glad to see your brother has some sense to him!!!LOL just kidding ya.

[romeo212000]

That is funny. I see what your saying. I have GSP's but am considering getting myself a little pointer bitch. She's a prett 9 month old female but hasn't had anything done with her.

[muddycreek]

No problem here Bdgg42, sense or no sense he will be in for a good time!

[tommyboy72]

Tell your brother he made a smart decision and welcome to the fold. It took me 15 years of hunting behind setters (Irish and English) and labs to finally decide I wanted to try a pointer and now I have 2 and when my old English Setter passes on I have decided that pointers are the breed I want to stick with from now on. That young pointer might surprise you with how it will know at such a young age.

[prairiefirepointers]

you know the old addage "If you can't run with the big dogs, then stay on the porch!"

Looks like bro wants to run with the big dogs..

[subatomicstang]

What are the differences from pointer and german short haired? I know they looks completelty different but wondering about nose ability ?

[prairiefirepointers]

This could turn into an ugly argument!
I dunno.. my opinion is the pups genetic makeup would have more bearing on it's inherited olfactory sence's than anything, rather than defining the breeds apart. JMO

Good question

[romeo212000]

Neither breed has a better nose than the other. You see far more variance within different lines in breeds than the breeds themselves. Pointers tend to be a little faster maturing, and have slightly higher motors. They can be hard headed at times but their independence is what makes them such good dogs, especially at a younger age. I wouldn't recommend a high octane trial bred pointer for a first bird dog. Like the OP said, it's sort of like putting the petal to the floor on a ferrari the first time you get behind the wheel.

[tommyboy72]

I agree with Romeo. If you want a pointer for a first dog get one of the Elhew lines. They seem to be more relaxed and easier handling than say a Miller bred dog. At least mine is.

[prairiefirepointers]

Last years spring litter was a Elhew / Miller Cross litter. Nice pups.

What's with the millers you find makes em hard to handle? (not trying to put you on the spot) Just asking.

[tommyboy72]

It is not that she is hard to handle per say she does just what she was bred to do. Mine comes from Adrian Jackson at Poker Straight Kennel out of Boys Ranch near Amarillo, Tx. He is a trialer/trainer and sometimes breeder. She likes to run big and cover a lot of ground and she is very independent and I find myself having to call her in to check in or she will just keep running as far out as you want to let her run. She always comes on a whistle blow she just won't come back unless you blow the whistle she just wants to keep getting out farther and farther. I keep her reigned in at about 2-300 yards. She also hunts very fast. She does not overrun her nose and bump anymore birds than any other dog I have had she just does everything at mach 10 and super athletic. On the other hand my Elhew hunts at a more controlled speed, what you might consider a loper, he hunts within 100-200 yards, checks back in on his own or waits until I catch up to him, covers less ground but is more methodical about it, and is super steady on point. My Miller is steady but gets excited and likes to creep a little. She usually points from about 10-15 yards back so a small amount of creeping does not hurt much but I am just being picky and would like for her to lock up steady all the time. She also has this thing when she goes on point where she twirls her tail in a tight little circle the whole time she is pointing where as my Elhew locks stone solid. The dogs my Miller come out of are horseback trial dogs and this could have a lot to do with it. Adrian who I mentioned before wants me to breed her back to one of his males but I am thinking of breeding her to my Elhew. Both have excellent bloodlines but I was thinking if I did breed them the pups might be a hybrid of both parents and I might get exactly what I want. One thing I do not like about my Elhew is he refuses to retrieve and when I sent him to be FF trained he was so soft that he just absolutely clammed up and refused, would not eat, lost considerable weight and would not even point birds. When I got him back I gave him about 2 weeks to get back to normal and he is fine but still will not retrieve. My Miller on the other hand has started to naturally retrieve just in the last couple of weeks. I was hoping a cross might result in a tougher, hardier line that would also work a little slower and range a little closer and also have the calm demeanor of my Elhew with the athleticism and intensity of my Miller. I am probably just dreaming but I am thinking of giving this pairing a try in June when she comes back in to heat. To me a Miller is like a Ferrari as was stated and an Elhew is more like a Cadillac. One is fast, athletic, determined and intense while the other is smooth, calm, relaxed. and reliable.

[tommyboy72]

One other thing I would like to add just for the sake of adding it is that I have never had to potty train either of my pointers. I got my male at 2 years old and he had never been a house dog and I got my female at 4 months old the day she was due to go on the chain gang with the rest of her litter and neither of them has ever even offered to use the bathroom in the house. For the most part my dogs live in the backyard but they do come in on nights when the temp. gets below 20 degrees and I can leave them in all night without fear of them soiling the carpet. This is another thing that has attracted me to this breed they just seem to know what to do and what not to in the house and that carries over into coming in and getting some attention and then just going and laying down in their kennels and going to sleep. Both well behaved dogs from the get go without much instruction. This is the first breed of dog that I have let in the house that I never had to do this with. They just seem to transfer well from outside and hunting behavior to inside behavior as well as being gentle around my 17 month old son.

[romeo212000]

By the way tommyboy, there is a NSTRA trial in Laverne this spring if your interested.

[tommyboy72]

Mine are not quite ready for that yet. I appreciate the invite though. I am going to start working with a friend on FF training both my pointers and after I have them retrieving solidly I definitely would like to enter and see what they have compared to other dogs.

[romeo212000]

I was just thinking you might want to come out and check out what its all about. Lots to learn just by being there and asking questions.

[tommyboy72]

I would love to. Do you have a definite date? I will come and try to bring a friend with me. Also do you have a location for me?

[romeo212000]

Go to this site: http://www.oknstra.netkennel.com/

Then on the menu click on 2009 spring schedule and it lists all trials for this spring. There may be another one you can make it to if you want. Sharon, Taloga. Let me know which ones you go to.

[RayGubernat]

What are the differences from pointer and german short haired? I know they looks completelty different but wondering about nose ability ?

Randy -

Aside from personal prefereces and biases, the plain fact of the matter is that there really is not a whole lot of difference betweeen the performance ability of the breeds...as breeds. If you can find a pointer that can do what you want...it is a virtual certainty that you can find a shorthair that will do the same thing for you. And vice versa.

Shorthairs do have a slightly different coat which gives them an advantage in water and in very cold conditions, I think, but, again, not all that much. Similarly, the pointers lighter coloring and thinner coat give them a slight advantge in the oppressive heat and humidity, but again...not that much.

These days there is so much overlap between the breeds, in terms of performance characteristics that it is alm,ost a tossup.

However, as you may have observed, diehard pointer and diehard GSP folks just love to toss bouquets back and forth.

RayG

[tommyboy72]

Ray, what do you think of the natural drive to retrieve in GSP's vs. that same drive in EP's.?That is one of the only things I do not care much for in my pointers is that they do not have the same desire or drive to retrieve birds as other breeds I have owned like Irish and English Setters and Labs. I only mention these 3 breeds because that is what I have personally owned, trained and hunted with. I have ,however, hunted over and trained with GSP's who belong to friends of mine and they seem to have more of a natural desire to pick up birds than pointers. All dogs will retrieve if FF trained and most people recommend it but I like a dog who just likes to do it naturally.

[tommyboy72]

Romeo I am going to try and make the Laverne trial but sometime right around then we are having a horseback trial at Hardesty which is 40 miles from me and a friend of mine is judging go I am going to that one but I am not sure of the date on that one for sure. If it is not the same date I will definitely make the Laverne trial. I would really like to come over and check it out since I have never seen a trial in person, only on tv.

[muddycreek]

However, as you may have observed, diehard pointer and diehard GSP folks just love to toss bouquets back and forth.

What? Never!!!