National Open Shooting Dog Championship

[phillipsgsp]

I agree with Ne Vizla, dont give up on a dog because most dogs won't give up on you.

Chad

[Sharon]

You're judged on the total 90 minutes. If your dog hasn't done much in 45 of a Championship of this calibre, he won't be able to make it up in 15 more. You have the previous dogs' runs to compare to also. In this Championship the bar was set high early. You show respect by not wasting the judges' and other handlers' time.
Of course at week- end trials, folks go the whole time no matter what. It's more of , " I paid my money and I'm going to give this dog some training if nothing else." When the judge pulls his hat down low on his eyes, you know you're not in the money. Those week-end judges work hard.

[NE Vizsla]

You're judged on the total 90 minutes. If your dog hasn't done much in 45 of a Championship of this calibre, he won't be able to make it up in 15 more. You have the previous dogs' runs to compare to also. In this Championship the bar was set high early. You show respect by not wasting the judges' and other handlers' time.
Of course at week- end trials, folks go the whole time no matter what. It's more of , " I paid my money and I'm going to give this dog some training if nothing else." When the judge pulls his hat down low on his eyes, you know you're not in the money. Those week-end judges work hard.

you just said your judged on a total 90 so why do you then say if you have not done much in the first 45 you cant make it up in the next 15 ? so are you judged on the full 90 or the first 45 ? when you have 90 that means you have 2 45's so really if you dont do much in the first 45 you still have 45 left not just 15.

I can understand picking up a dog if he has no finds or is running bad but if the dog is running good and has a find or two then why not finish, he could find one or two more in that last 15 and then all of a sudden you have three or four finds total and a great full run to boot. That to me is not waisting the judges or handlers time, plus they are being paid by the owner so there time is your time. What does respect have to do with anything ? Respect is a word that should not be thrown around so loosley, i have respect for a handful of people and they are people that i have met... two of which are my father and my old boy scout leader so i hold the word respect in high regard. Your talking about respect for a judge and a handler, people who you either dont know or hardly know and two people that are there only because they are being paid to be. Since you use the word respect so loosly..... they should show you the respect by letting your dog finish its run.

just my opinion of course

[Sharon]

Grrrrrrrr.

LOl My math was never good!( I'm sure you get my point though.)

PS I dispense my respect freely. I don't hold it tightly to my chest. I work at a jail and treat every inmate with respect. I treat every handler and judge with respect and show my respect by valuing their time and energy.
I assume you are speaking of "holding someone in high esteem" " - a different meaning for the word. I hadn't planned on a treatise on respect but I understand what you are saying. ( I think.)

[jgf@gratiot]

What does respect have to do with anything ? Respect is a word that should not be thrown around so loosley, i have respect for a handful of people and they are people that i have met... two of which are my father and my old boy scout leader so i hold the word respect in high regard. Your talking about respect for a judge and a handler, people who you either dont know or hardly know and two people that are there only because they are being paid

Respect that the judges are not getting paid to be there, it is on their own time, and if they are looking at 40-100 dogs at 1.5 hours a brace that is a lot of time in the saddle to watch something that is just plain not getting it done. Agree if they still have a chance leave it down, but if its not getting it done in your mind, than its probably not getting it done in the judges mind, why waste both of your time? Depends on the situation, if every brace had gone birdless and you were having a less then good run, might as well leave it down and try and get a bird, however, if the bar has been set pretty high, you need to change the game plan.

[prairiefirepointers]

good grief.. Why is it that someone can make a simple statement, and somebody has to compose a 110 word discertation that gets the thread completely off course?

Just my observation of course.

[Sharon]

Thank you

[NE Vizsla]

What does respect have to do with anything ? Respect is a word that should not be thrown around so loosley, i have respect for a handful of people and they are people that i have met... two of which are my father and my old boy scout leader so i hold the word respect in high regard. Your talking about respect for a judge and a handler, people who you either dont know or hardly know and two people that are there only because they are being paid

Respect that the judges are not getting paid to be there, it is on their own time, and if they are looking at 40-100 dogs at 1.5 hours a brace that is a lot of time in the saddle to watch something that is just plain not getting it done. Agree if they still have a chance leave it down, but if its not getting it done in your mind, than its probably not getting it done in the judges mind, why waste both of your time? Depends on the situation, if every brace had gone birdless and you were having a less then good run, might as well leave it down and try and get a bird, however, if the bar has been set pretty high, you need to change the game plan.

the judges are not paid to judge ?? if that the case then my hat is off to them and you do realize i didnt say leave every dog down to run a full 90 ?

[jgf@gratiot]

Not sure about the one's down there, up here we provide travel expences and lodging and they usually get a gift of some sort.

[NE Vizsla]

good grief.. Why is it that someone can make a simple statement, and somebody has to compose a 110 word discertation that gets the thread completely off course?

Just my observation of course.

i assume your not talking about me getting this thread off course as it went other directions some pages ago..maybe you could have chimed in then I'll remind you of your statement next time you write more then a sentence on a subject.

[Yawallac]

Pretty rich expecting to keep your dog on the course because you "paid your money"..... That's not how it works, sorry. If your dog has a second unproductive, pick him up. If your dog takes a couple of steps, pick him up. If your dog isn't running his race, pick him up. In other words, if your dog can't win, do him and yourself a favor and get him off the course. In most cases, the judges will let you know...

[prairiefirepointers]

Perhaps the affliction is genetic?

I agree. Why waste others time, drag things out, perhaps hurt the dogs (and your) confidence..

[romeo212000]

This is something every handler needs to take to heart. Handlers and owners need to be willing to pick their dog up if they are getting out of hand. I have a great little 4 year old female that was taken out of trials completely for over 6 months to take care of a problem that needed to be fixed. I have picked my dog up with the judges permission a couple of times. I hated doing it but it was better for everyone in the long run.

[scotly50]

Pretty rich expecting to keep your dog on the course because you "paid your money"..... That's not how it works, sorry. If your dog has a second unproductive, pick him up. If your dog takes a couple of steps, pick him up. If your dog isn't running his race, pick him up. In other words, if your dog can't win, do him and yourself a favor and get him off the course. In most cases, the judges will let you know...

Exactly.

[BoJack]

Like mentioned before It's called Respect,and also being Honest with yourself.If you know your dog or know anything about dogs and also know what the dogs before has done you'll know by a certain point whether your dog's still in it or not.My cousin was a pro trainer and judge in the 70's.He ate supper Many eveinings with Gerald Tracy.When he found out I was intersted in dogs and trials he told me"Have fun at it,but don't ever let your dog make a Fool of you".

[RayGubernat]

Guys -

As regards any Open stake, the folks that are making the decisions are professional handlers. They know what it is going to take to win because they or their scout is riding every brace, watching every dog. The only time I have ever had a pro leave a dog down that ain't cuttin' it in a broke dog stake was when the owner was riding for their dog. A couple of times the pro actually came over and said something to the effect that "This dog's owner is riding. They came a long way to watch their dog run. Is it OK if I leave the dog down?"

Two things are also gong on at a stake like the Nat'l Open. First, these are all top flight dogs, most already champions and many are multiple champions, so they got nothin' to prove. If that dog is not getting it done, that day...why leave the dog down and risk injury or worse. That is simply not good business because if the dog gets injured , or gets lost and runs off its pads, you can't run the dog. If you can't run the dog you can't charge handling fees and you certaanly can't win.

Second, some of these pros are in brace after brace. As long as the owner is not there to watch their dog, there is absolutely no reason to leave a dog down that is not going to be in the money. Their time is better spent resting their horses, getting themseves set back up, preparing the next dog, etc. Most of the time I see pros pick up when they are swinging by the assembly area, so they can cut off directly to their trailer.

It has less, I think to do with respect, and more to do with, not wanting to continue to show a judge a dog that ain't gonna place. Show that judge enough dogs that ain't gonna cut it and that is what that judge might come to expect from you. Guess what? You just dog a hole for yourself that you and your next dog have to climb out of. That ain't smart.

It is a show and you want to show your best and not your worst. OK, OK, sometimes when i am running, the show turns into more of a comedy act, but then I'm not a pro.

RayG

[dirtdober]

They are professional trainers and run a number of dogs. Respect may not be the right word for this argument, it's more that they don't want to irratate the judges. Afterall judging is just opinion and you can't argue with that.

[BrettBryan]

I can't remember exactly whether i heard this or read this. It may have been in the American Field X-mas addition. I can't remember.

Faye Throneberry won the AA Nat'l with Miller's Miss Knight back in 1973. A couple/few years later, Faye picked up Miller's Miss Knight about 2 hours into the Nat'l Ch. Supposedly, she was in contention to win it at the time. Asking Faye, why he picked her up, he told them, she just wasn't laying it down like she had done so many times in her prime. He knew what kind of dog she was in her prime and in his eyes it just wasn't right to continue on.

Now, some folks may say why in the world would any sane person pick the dog up if she/he was winning the stake at that time. Faye knew exactly what a championship performance was, and unfortunately, she wasn't giving it in his eyes. Age had caught up with her and he knew it.

[BoJack]

Brett Wrote:

Faye Throneberry won the AA Nat'l with Miller's Miss Knight back in 1973. A couple/few years later, Faye picked up Miller's Miss Knight about 2 hours into the Nat'l Ch. Supposedly, she was in contention to win it at the time. Asking Faye, why he picked her up, he told them, she just wasn't laying it down like she had done so many times in her prime. He knew what kind of dog she was in her prime and in his eyes it just wasn't right to continue on.

Now, some folks may say why in the world would any sane person pick the dog up if she/he was winning the stake at that time. Faye knew exactly what a championship performance was, and unfortunately, she wasn't giving it in his eyes. Age had caught up with her and he knew it

One of the things I mentioned earlier- Knowing your dog and Being Honest with yourself.

[jgf@gratiot]

So how'd this thing shake out?

[dudleysmith]

Talisman.

[scotly50]

I was hoping Covergirl would have won it on race. But that one extra find in the same brace was hard to overcome.

Congrats to Scott.

[FRK]

Scotly50, I appreciate it!! I was very proud of both of the youngsters, Covergirl and Commander being 3 year olds and giving an honest effort that they did. Shawn has a wonderful string of young dogs that gave good efforts including Vagas's dog Ben, Darren Britts dog, and several others. Again thanks. Scott