Pointer Tail

[Drifter Saver]

I am hoping that some of the Pointer people on here will have some insight on this. I kept two pups out of my last litter. They are now 5 months old. My question has to do with one of them having a tail that I haven't encountered yet in Pointers. His tail is absolutely poker straight. However, when he plays around it stands at about 10-11 o'clock...when I show him a pigeon or when he stalks another pup...it falls to 9 o'clock (hard for me to look at).

Has anyone seen this before? I plan to see if it improves as I start him this spring, but my gut tells me it isn't going to happen.

[Mr. Crappie]

I was just getting ready to start a post about this myself. I was wondering if the way a pup points at 13 weeks is the way it will point as an adult. Mine is does not have a poker straight tail, but will let you "comb" it up.

[PkerStr8Tail]

I have one explanation to consider. A young dog may be in stalk mode rather than full staunch point mode. They can stop and look like they are on point, but are more in a stalk mode, which drops their tail. I am not there to evaluate, but it may be something to consider. Show the young dog more birds and if it can tolerate it, pop some birds from a launcher when it first makes scent. This should get they started to steady up and see what the tail does then. Hope that helps.

[Drifter Saver]

I am going to start popping pigeons this weekend. He sight pointed the first pigeon I showed him so he will do fine. My gut tells me that his tail won't change, but I will give him some time no matter what. I just haven't ever seen a Pointers tail drop (this young) on birds. Drop is one thing, but from 11-12 o'clock to 9 just doesn't seem right.

[Mr. Crappie]

I have only had my Snowatch pup for a week and have let her "point" a pheasant tail on a fishing rod. I was hoping for a little more intensity, but will see how she does on pigeons in a few weeks.

[Sharon]

This dog's tail had a "crook" in it when he was a pup. Pointed with that bend in the tail. Caused the owner concern.

Here he is now at one. ( Uplander's Pocahontas)

[BoJack]

Believe me I've been there.Was told and learned to Have Patience.When those pups get some age and muscle develpoement (tail muscles especially)on them those tails come up.What you see at 13 wks is not what you're going to see at a year or so.Not every tail comes up at 12 o'clock though,though it is definately my preference.

Sharon,
Awsome looking Pointer,they don't look any better then that.

[tommyboy72]

Thanks for answering a question I was about to ask Sharon. I got this little pup a couple of weeks ago from a trialer friend who owns a kennel with a huge amount of pups and he said this pup had a crook to her tail which she holds kind of twisted but when she gets intense it straightens out. He said it might straighten out as she got older but he had so many pups, litters and incoming dogs he did not have time to wait so I got her dirt cheap. I don't trial, just hunt, but I was just curious and that answered my question.

[PkerStr8Tail]

Here is a picture of my field trial dog at 5 months one of the first time I showed her birds.



This is her at just under 2 years old during her derby season.



Not saying it will get better, but give it some time. Things change rapidly in the first two years.

[Drifter Saver]

I just don't understand the dropping of the tail when he gets excited, but we will see. Thanks for the responses.

[ezzy333]

Tail position is many times an indicator of confidence. Something new will lower the tail for a period before it comes back to the norml position when the pup is completely confident of what it is doing.

Ezzy

[Sharon]

That's right Ezzy. A low tail is often an indicator that too much pressure is being put on the pup/dog too.

[Sharon]

I just don't understand the dropping of the tail when he gets excited, but we will see. Thanks for the responses.

A confident, more mature dog has that tail up , excited, ready for the action. He/she knows what what to is expect and is confident he/she can accomplish the task.
A 5 month old pup can not sure about anything much. That non-confident tail is a sign of his/her mental state.

Then again my youngest dog was high-tailed , confident at 6 months. .

I remember a famous breeder ( G.Tracy ? ) telling me that his pups came out of the womb broke/tail high. .

[ezzy333]

That's right Ezzy. A low tail is often an indicator that too much pressure is being put on the pup/dog too.

True , but it doesn't have to be pressure but just something the pup isn't sure of yet. Mine will have its tail up when on a check cord in the yard since it is there at least twice a day everyday. I can take him to a new area such as a field or to a park and the tail comes down. It will go back up if I do it the same way for a week or so but for a while the pup just isn't as sure what's going on. Once the pup thinks it is in command then the tail will regain the high position. Kind of a doggy swagger.

Ezzy

[shets114]

If you look into the breeding you'll probably find way back in a European line of Pointer somewhere. They don't look for the straight up tail set. They have alot of dogs that will have a pump handle tail and that is what they like. Doesn't seem to hurt the bird finding ability one bit.

[Drifter Saver]

I have had many Pointers and bred several litters. This is something that I haven't encountered. It isn't a confidence thing, it isn't an anticipation thing and it certainly isn't pressure. I guess that I will have to wait and see. This pups grandparents are Honky Tonk Attitude, Ranger's Barshoe Angel, Honky Tonk Hirise and a full sister to Ranger's Barshoe Angel. I don't see a tail like that in the pedigree, but it is a nice tight line-breeding, so who knows.

I have seen perfect puppy tails go bad and I have seen some bad tails go straight. I have seen 9-10 o'clock puppy tails go up on birds, but I have yet to see the exact opposite. He is the backward birddog

[bondoron]

Why does the tail have to be at 12 o'clock? Does it matter if it is at 11 or 10 or even 9? I never understood the whole 12 o'clock thing. Does it mean more birds in the bag? I have seen Pointer owners sell a dog because of a sickle tail. Am I missing something?

[slistoe]

Yes you are missing something - the fact that some people like the look of a straight up tail. Simple as that.

[nitrex]

Yes you are missing something - the fact that some people like the look of a straight up tail. Simple as that.

Agree! And judges like a 12 o'clock tail!

Nitrex

[BoJack]

Tail position doesn't affect any of the natural abilities.To some,myself included it exudes Class. Shooter-"All Jacked Up"at 6 mos.

[mountaindogs]

While I have grown to be somewhat okay with the straight up tail in GSP's they have a strong tendancy to curve over the back if they are so high, and that I do not like. I would rather see my GSP's have a 10:00 tail than a curvy tail. I do not like the very low tails as a docked tail does seem nicer with slight incline. But we are talking pointers. I kindof think the lower tailed pointers have a old fashioned classic look that reminds me of regal pointers hunting in the old days. The body with the pointing leg formed an actual arrow with tail and nose in the same line actually pointing out the direction of the birds. Today the high head and high tail looks like a big I_I shape, not an arrow.

I know that I am in the extreme minority here and but the style exemplified in the Wesminster Kennel Club logo looks correct to me for what the old originals in the breed hundreds of years ago would have been proud to have. I wonder if they would have felt the I_I shape was nicer or strange... but these are just musings

[vzkennels]

The tail doesn't point birds & in a hunting situation doesn't reay mean anything other then it looks nice & most prefer it.On the other hand if field trialing though the tail still don't point birds the competition is very tough & a dog with a 12:00 tail all else being equal will win EVERYTIME.I like it whether hunting or trialing & to me shows class,style,confidence,etc.When you are younger or just getting started it's more about putting birds in the bag as you mature,it becomes more about the dog & watching a classy,stylish,dog work.I have had both & now if a dog don't have style & class he don't live here but they have both served their purpose well at the time.

[slistoe]

I hope everyone is understanding it isn't an either/or situation. A dog that has a straight up tail that is not a bird finder is pretty much worthless to both a trialer and a hunter. The insistence of a straight up tail is in addition to the first pre-requisite of the dog being a good birdfinder etc. You can hunt with a bird finder or hunt with a bird finder with all the options (intensity, style, class, hunt etc.). You have a hard time at a trial without a birdfinder that has all the options.

[Drifter Saver]

Why does the tail have to be at 12 o'clock? Does it matter if it is at 11 or 10 or even 9? I never understood the whole 12 o'clock thing. Does it mean more birds in the bag? I have seen Pointer owners sell a dog because of a sickle tail. Am I missing something?

I trial my dogs so an attractive tail is very important (not just to the judges, but to me as well). I have moved dogs to good hunting homes because they didn't have all of the attributes that I am looking for and a tail is just one of those attributes.

This pup is a fire ball that already is pigeon crazy so he is going to get his fair chance. I am just not optimistic that the tail will come around.

[Birdman250]

Drifter Saver--I too have a 5 months old pup that has the same tail issue..When he was 2-3months old he looked great on point and styling. Now that he's 5 months old his tail suddenly dropped down--almost between his legs..I have owned numerous pointers throughout the years and never seen it drop that drastic. And NO it's not pressure and confidence issues..His pappa/mamma has great tail disposition and I'm hoping to see it in him..I believe that the pup is just going through some development issue at this time..Give it some time--That's at least what I'm going to do

[Drifter Saver]

Birdman, lets wish each other luck!

[PkerStr8Tail]

I have had many Pointers and bred several litters. This is something that I haven't encountered. It isn't a confidence thing, it isn't an anticipation thing and it certainly isn't pressure. I guess that I will have to wait and see. This pups grandparents are Honky Tonk Attitude, Ranger's Barshoe Angel, Honky Tonk Hirise and a full sister to Ranger's Barshoe Angel. I don't see a tail like that in the pedigree, but it is a nice tight line-breeding, so who knows.

I have seen perfect puppy tails go bad and I have seen some bad tails go straight. I have seen 9-10 o'clock puppy tails go up on birds, but I have yet to see the exact opposite. He is the backward birddog

My experience with Honky Tonk Attitude breeding has been that generally he throws 10-11 o'clock tails on average. Bull himself looked like a million bucks on points, but many of his offspring I personally saw had less than 12 o'clock tails. (I owned a direct son myself that I sold) Certainly he threw some dogs with nice tails, but based on the dogs I saw out of him, lower tails was a trait that was passed on many times.

[bobman]

IF you decide you dont want the pup for competition I would probably take him, he would have a great hunting home and sleep on my air conditioned couches with my other pointers in the off season.


I hope he works out I'm just saying keep me in mind

thanks

Bob

[Birdman250]

Drifter Saver--Thanks and I hope you keep him for awhile..You already have the dog, why not give him a chance...

[Drifter Saver]

Drifter Saver--Thanks and I hope you keep him for awhile..You already have the dog, why not give him a chance...

Ironically his name is Chance!

[Birdman250]

There you go--The name said it all!!!! Good luck and hope to run into your stylish dog in the future..