Fear bolting?

[volraider]

Has anyone ever seen a dog that bolts out of fear? I was talking to a guy who has a 7 month old setter out of very good breeding. The pup pointed his birds early, backs on sight, and retrieves. The dog has had probably 20 or more pen birds killed over it and shows absolutely no-fear of the gun. What is happening is the dog will be running around hunting then for no reason take off in a straight line with his tail tucked between his legs. This doesn't happen when the gun is fired there is definitely no problem there. This can happen when he's just out exercising. This doesn't happen every time but it's happened about 4 times. I have seen dogs that just take off but none that shows fear like this. This pups seems to be terrified of something. Any ideas to what this is?

[h.q.s]

His shadow.



Sounds pretty weird to me. I would get him seeing more people, seeing new things, just get his confidence to go through the roof. Even though you were saying he does fine most the time, maybe that would help him deal with his "fear" better then he is now.

Just a thought.

[slistoe]

Yes, many dogs "bolt". They learn to avoid pressure by disappearing. The retriever folks have mastered the art of "debolting" dogs. Something has happened to this dog that he is remembering and the memory triggers the avoidance response.

[snips]

Ecollar?

[volraider]

Brenda,

The e-collar was my first thought too, but he said he's never had a collar on him. The pup has never had any pressure on him at all or for any reason. Just really weird.

[vzkennels]

Maybe something physical or mental ?

[k2k]

I have a dog who had been stung by a yellowjacket when she was a pup (about 4 or 5 months old) while we were hiking in the woods. We both got it, actually. They were in the ground I guess.

To this day she is afraid of bees. She doesn't bolt, but she is very wary of them....and her tail does go down most of the time if one comes around.

Karen

[mtjim]

I have a female with similar trait.

She's 2 1/2 now and the older she gets the less it happens.

[Sharon]

Maybe something physical or mental ?

I'd go with something physical that pains him so he takes off.

[Benny]

head to toe exam. Look for ticks, chiggers, fleas, prickles in the feet, whatever. Also look at the area you're training in, make sure you don't have goat grass or something with hydroscopic awns that are drilling into your dog. I know you guys got some weird grass over there.
Other than that, who knows.

[snips]

Sounds like he just needs to grow up....Let him grow up and have fun. I know you say it is not the gun, but I woud lay off anything but chasing a few birds.

[R-Heaton]

Maybe something physical or mental

Ted,,, you know I love ya man,,,, but is there a 3rd choice?

or something with hydroscopic awns that are drilling into your dog

Better go into more detail Benny,,, hydroscopic awns aren't that common on earth are they?

[gonehuntin']

Sometimes, we never really know what causes a behavior. In this case it could be a screw loose or could be owner-induced. The most likely scenario is that the owner ran him down once and beat the tar out of him for NOT coming to him, then tried again to catch him and couldn't.

It really isn't that important what caused it. Find a good de-bolting program and de-bolt him.

[volraider]

What are the steps of a debolting process?

Thanks

[ezzy333]

Maybe something physical or mental

Ted,,, you know I love ya man,,,, but is there a 3rd choice?

or something with hydroscopic awns that are drilling into your dog

Better go into more detail Benny,,, hydroscopic awns aren't that common on earth are they?

How about spiritual? Does that qualify as a 3rd choice?

Is hydroscopic anything like telescopic?

Ezzy

[bobman]

I had a situation where I was working a soft dog and a real hardhead together with a innojunk two dog collar.

Unknown to me the thing jumped signals to the other collar on the soft dog and while the hard head was totally ignoring me I thought I went up a couple levels on the hardhead and was actually hitting the soft dog. He took off like a shot and ran about a mile home from where I train. Nothing would stop him and after that everytime we went to that spot for the next 8-10 weeks he would just take off and run home.

I made a point of not correcting him with the collar ( he never needs it anyway it was just on him for safety's sake) for the next few months over time he seems to of forgot it.

This is the third time ( each time sent back to manufactuer and I got we "never had this problem before" line) this two dog set up from innotech did this I've not used it as a two dog unit since and have ordered a new G3 tritronics jan 1 st which is still on back order.

A while back when it happened I asked the all knowing GoneHunting for help and he graciously sent me this, hes a very sharp trainer and while I decided just to wait it out first I have absolute confidence his response will work. I've been training dogs for a long time and hes the real deal when it comes to techniques. Very sharp guy. Although I cannot for the life of me figure out why hes stays in Crivitz all winter.

I saved it and heres his method



Thank you bobman for the kind words. Debolting a dog is one of those things that nobody thinks about than can start as a pup. It is a learned behavior and sometimes it's learned young, sometimes old. Everytime you chase a pup in play and he gets away, he's learning an escape behavior. As an older dog, when they bolt through a door in front of you, when they jump into the car without command, when they won't come out of their doghouse or kennel, they've learned and escape behavior. The greatest cause though is the obvious one; a dog has been trained without a cc or training collar and when pressure is put on, has "escaped". Now we have a "bolter". Bolting is, 100% of the time, a man made problem. The two dogs most prone to it are the "spooks" and the "hardheads". Totally opposite ends of the spectrum, but the cure is exactly the same. Many training problems are corrected in exactly the same manors, it's the amount of pressure that varries.

To cure a bolter you have to remove all of his "safe haven's"; his kennel, his dog house, the car, the house, a room in the house, an area. He must be taught that there is only one area in his entire world that is safe and that safety zone is at your side. It is not a long and drawn out proceedure as some training problems are. Usually in a week you're done. Start by always having the dog on a lead. Tempt the dog unmercifully and apply a lot of pressure on the correction; be very unfair with him. Start through a door. When the dog tries to beat you in, let him enter the house or car then yell at him "NO, HEEL!" It's O.K. to swear. Give him a bunch of short quick jerks on a leash commanding loudly " HEEL, HEEL," until either he willingly comes or you forcibly in short jerks, jerk him back to you and put him in the heel or whoa position. Now do it again. Open the door, kennel gate, or whatever you're using and see if he tries it again. He will, but if by chance he doesn't, tell him O.K., let him walk into the kennel, then loudly command HEEL. If he doesn't come, jerk him out again. This will sound unfair to some and in a small sense it is, but you must teach the dog he has no safe havens.

When he'll do this, try it with his dog house or porta kennel, wherever the dog sleeps. If I remember correctly, yours are all kenneled. On lead, walk him up to his dog house. Bein' a bettin' man, I'll bet he "bolts" for the opening and jumps in. Don't let him. When his head is just entering the house door, command "NO, HERE" (or heel) and jerk him back if you have to. Keep at this until you can turn him right at the door and bring him back to you. Now let him enter the house, turn and get comfortable. Now command HERE in a loud and harsh voice and jerk him out. He'll brace all four feet and you'll have a battle on your hands, but you must win. You always must win each of these battles or you're fighting a losing one.

Once he's perfect in this on leash in all area's he may consider safe, and will come briskly with no sulleness even when commanded in harsh tones, it's time to remove the leash or cc. To do this we need a fenced in yard. At my kennel, the entire kennel area was fenced in with hugh swinging gates so I could back the dog truck in and load and unload inside closed gates. It was perfect for the next exercise but a fenced in back yard will do with no nosy neighbors watching. I'm aiming this at the guys that aren't collar guys. If the dog were a collar dog you would simply overlay each of the commands we worked on earlier in each of the places we taught the command in, by using high intensity and a nick with the collar. That's the easy way. If we're not collar trainers, here's what we have to do. A bolter requires pressure to cure. There aren't enough hot dogs in the world to teach one to come anywhere anytime, so we use pressure. That dog must come to you when commanded and IT MUST COME OUT OF FEAR, fear that the consequences of not complying with the command are far worse that complying. Hate to tell you guys, but I still would use a sling shot or bb gun. Let the criticism commence. Now, I'm going to tell you guys I was mighty fine shot with a sling shot and could take a tin can off a fence post at 30-40 yards with a marble so the person telling you how to do this was extremely competent with one. The dog is in a fenced in yard. Escape is impossible. Compliance refusal is impossible. He's all yours. Command HERE very harshly, dog running free when he's 10-20 feet from you. Immediatly if the dog cowers or skulks away, pelt him with a marble or Red Ryder BB in the butt and command HERE!. Never shoot at the dog when he's facing you, alway's when he's sideways or going away. After you whack him one, it's ok to move for the next shot to be sideways to the dog. Command HERE harshly again and if he doesn't immediately spin and come to your side, whack him again. Usually on about the 99th marble or BB they won't be able to take it anymore and will give in a slink in to you. When this happen's, you've won. Now it's important to keep this training up, that is to never let that dog do anything without you commanding it to do so.

This is so much easier with an ecollar and so much safer, but if you're not a collar person, there is no other way to do it. They MUST come out of fear, not out of desire for a treat. Some day it will save his life. This is why I consider HERE to be a more important command than WHOA. A bolter will break or not whoa; a debolted dog may not whoa, but he'll always come. Finally, please don't write in saying how outdated and antequated the slingshot is. I know it is. But you know what? It still works. When I'm airing dog's on the road in a wayside, all I have to do is snap the strap and the dog's nearly run me over to get in the truck. It has it's place.
__________________

[vzkennels]

Pretty much covered didn't I Rich ??

[Benny]

or something with hydroscopic awns that are drilling into your dog

Better go into more detail Benny,,, hydroscopic awns aren't that common on earth are they?

I couldn't make this stuff, that barb goatgrass is crazy stuff. I think the hydroscopic just means that moisture (even humidity) causes the awn to twist...nasty on cattle, so many sores it looks like chicken pox.
http://www.slocounty.ca.gov/agcomm/Weed ... cialis.htm

Anyhow, I think Bobman covered it.