Newborns and dogs. Advice needed

[GSPVIZ]

Hi All,

We brought our newborn home on Saturday. Our male GSP actually snapped at the baby. I smack the crap out of him when he gets too close to the baby but I dont know what else to do. My wife is considering giving both of the dogs away (even though our female Viz is gentle with her).

Any advice is certainly needed.

[GsPJustin]

Without being there and/or seeing what happened. It is hard to tell if you have a serious problem or a misunderstanding. Obviously dogs and newborns should be supervised when they are together, but you wont catch everything so you need to be able to trust your dog. The first 3 things that come to mind are. Playing, which might look rough compared to a new born baby who just opened there eyes. Dominance, the gsp might think that she is about to be moving down on the totempole, which in time she will be. So she is trying to hold her position in the pack. Odd situation, if the dog was in a weird situation and didn't understand what was happening. Never had seen a baby before and you were acting different she very well could have just been unsure of herself and needed a way out. I don't think you should continue to do anything negative when she is near the baby because that would only worsen the problem. For right now I would keep the 2 separate as much as possible until you get a little more secure and then slowly reintroduce the dog to the baby with positive reinforcement and only in scenarios where the dog cannot fail.

[bobman]

We've been over this in other threads I never ever allowed my dogs near my infants and even when the kids were real little they were not allowed to Play

Little kids make quick jerky movements have high pitched voices and resemble prey to predators , dogs are predators.


All you need is one bad thing to happen, with most dogs it probably wont but its not worth the risk.

I'm sure a bunch of people are going to get on here and tell you their dogs loved their kids even when they were babies I think its a huge mistake. I've raised 5 kids while having 4-12 dogs, I wouldn't get rid of the dogs but I would keep them seperate.


http://leerburg.com/pdf/introducingdogsandbabies.pdf

there some other artiles on the site also, don't be afraid just be cautious and smart about this Disney type fantasy is not a option

[Loke]

How is the dog with you? Does he know that you are the pack leader, or does he think that he is? First of all, he needs to know that he is at the bottom of the pack order, and that you are at the top. Then let him know that the baby is above him in the pack order. You can do this by making your dog submit (lying on its side until it relaxes), and then set the baby on top of the dog. Setting the baby on the dog's back while it is sitting will give the dog the idea that he is on the bottom of the totem pole. The first thing you need to do is make sure the dog knows that you are the pack leader, and that you decide who is where in the pack order.

[briarpatch]

Matt,
congradulations on the baby first off, Boy, girl, named after a good guy you met on the forum and at a few hunt tests or what just teasing on the last part ? more info pics?..


Sorry to hear Pokey isn't taking to the baby as you had hoped..

wish I could give you some good advice in this area but really have none to offer as I never had any experience in this department, other than don't leave or let him to close to the baby for the time being..
and I don't think I would be smacking him though if he gets to close i think this may lead to more aggresion towards the baby perhaps just take the baby or dog away may be a better appproach...But like I said never had that experience before so don't know if that is good advise or not but seemed logical so i threw it out there..

hope it works out and you don't have to give up your dogs over this.. I would definately try to talk mom into keeping at least the viz that doesn't seem to have any problem with the babe but would still use extreme caution even with the viz just to be on the safe side..

perhaps a outside kennel for pokey and the viz or the dogs own back room or cellar for the time being till the baby gets a couple years older may be the answer i know your abit like me in believing the dogs are better off in the house and like having them around, but better safe than sorry and would take awhile but the dogs would adjust to being outside. my dogs are so used to the outdoor kennel during the day they cry to be out there as soon as daylight hits of course they are still spoiled and cry to come in at night but i know they would easily eventually adjust if i had to turn them into outside dogs for some reason like a new baby or something..

just a few ideas thown out there

[fuess]

Yo bud,

First, congrats. We spoke of the baby at the HT, never thinking of this. I use to put a bay towels in the dog crates, to get them use to the scent of our children. It worked for us, so maybe give it a try. I figured the more the dogs got use to the babies "stuff" the btter off everyone would be.

A new world for the the 2 dogs. Keep them serpearte unless you are both around and give them all attnetion. best you can do to get everyone happy.

Good luck!

You back at work yet?? Will give you a call this week!

FUess

[rockllews]

Congratulations to you and your wife on the beautiful baby girl!

That link to Leerburg didn't work for me but if I remember it correctly, I'll second that recommendation. I don't have personal experience with [new babies plus dog aggression], but I think it's safest to separate them. If he has to be inside, put him in a crate, and just be careful that he is never loose in house with him or the baby unsupervised. I can understand why your wife is worried, and I'm sure you agree 100% that such aggression is not acceptable; however, as things are new to everyone, give him some credit (and esp. the Vizsla). He should get accustomed to the baby being around. And I liked Fuess' suggestion of putting the rags/blankets in with the dog.

All the above said without knowing much about what happened... How old is the dog? What was going on when he snapped? (Someone holding your baby? In a cradle? etc) And what kind of behavior was shown by the dog? Was he fearful/hesitant acting or just plain confrontational? Growling? But all that asked, my answer is pretty much the same: separate them.

I know some have said not to punish him, but if you said No, I'd say this is serious enough to back it up with an immediate smack. You can't just ignore a dog snapping at a baby and frankly he had to learn that you wouldn't tolerate that. You shouldn't have to do this in the future, though, because hopefully neither dog nor baby will be in such a position (ie dog in crate).

The last thing I wanted to touch upon is this: do not put your baby on top of the dog. :roll: (I'm sure your wife wouldn't let you anyways.)

I hope things go more smoothly shortly. Please let us know how it's going in a few days and what changes you and your wife decided upon.


Best of luck,
Chelsea

[cntryboy]

I have a question kind of along the same lines. I have a 4 month old pup at home as well two sons, 1 and 4. The dog is not aggressive toward the kids but is young, excited, and still kind of clumbsy so accidents do happen. The dog and the boys all have "a lot of energy" to put it nicely.

I feel like I am constantly disciplining the dog or the kids for one thing or another. It's not totally the pup's fault b/c the boys are high energy also so the dog feeds off of them.
What advice can any of you give me on raising a pup w/ young kids and keeping everyone happy.

I think it should get easier once we have a good stretch of nice weather and we can get out more but it's not easy to wear out a 4 month old gsp, I've tried, he just seems to always want more. I don't want to ruin the dog's drive or trust in me by constantly yelling at him and I don't really want to isolate him by seperating him from the family but would do so if that's what's needed.

Sorry to steal the thread, I have just been thinking about this and it seemed to kind of fit. Any advice is greatly appreciated. Thanks.

Troy

[GsPJustin]

I have a question kind of along the same lines. I have a 4 month old pup at home as well two sons, 1 and 4. The dog is not aggressive toward the kids but is young, excited, and still kind of clumbsy so accidents do happen. The dog and the boys all have "a lot of energy" to put it nicely.

I feel like I am constantly disciplining the dog or the kids for one thing or another. It's not totally the pup's fault b/c the boys are high energy also so the dog feeds off of them.
What advice can any of you give me on raising a pup w/ young kids and keeping everyone happy.

I think it should get easier once we have a good stretch of nice weather and we can get out more but it's not easy to wear out a 4 month old gsp, I've tried, he just seems to always want more. I don't want to ruin the dog's drive or trust in me by constantly yelling at him and I don't really want to isolate him by seperating him from the family but would do so if that's what's needed.

Sorry to steal the thread, I have just been thinking about this and it seemed to kind of fit. Any advice is greatly appreciated. Thanks.

Troy

Best advice I can give you is. Be patient, keep them supervised and let the pup mature. A 4 month old is pretty much going crazy while hes awake. He will calm down with age and figure out what you like. Until then try to keep your kids to be as calm as possible around the dog (good luck with that one).

[dmadis8]

I had a friend that would put his baby girl in one of those baby chestpacks. The kind where the kids legs are hanging out the bottom like a reverse back pack. Sorry i am terrible at describing things, but maybe someone could help explain it better. So anyway, he would put her in the chest pack and take her out when he was training the dogs. The dog that snapped at his baby 2x quickly learned that the baby was higher on the totem pole than he was and actually now the dog and the little girl are inseparable. Just throwing out what worked for someone else. I cant imagine having to get rid of one of my dogs. Good luck and let us know how things progress.

[bobman]

toddlers and excited bird dogs are also a bad idea think of it this way, a GSP running into a toddler is like a horse running into an adult sever head injuries are possible, my kids used to run away from my bird dogs until they were big enough that they could handle the accidental bump a bird dog pup thats nearly full grown can give.

I kept them seperate most of the time although they inadvertently bumped into the kids when they were small at times.

I bought one of those metal swing type adjustable gates from walmart and kept the dogs in that room when the kids were little, the way my house is laid out that was a pratical solution. We used a dog collar on the gate so the little kids couldn't open it easily so my wife could have some peace of mind and didn't have to totally watch them every second.

I've had one male shorthair growl at one of my kids out of maybe 20 dogs as they grew up, ( my kids are in their late teens early twenties at present) I gave him a firm "no" and he never did it again but he was a very obedient dog. I still kept them apart.

Little kids have no sense of dog body language and will also poke a dog in the eye or yank a ear so the dogs are better off being seperated also.


As my kids got bigger all of them played with our dogs often, kids and dogs are a good idea with supervision. Infants,toddlers and dogs are not.

[bruns333]

GSPVIZ I have had real good luck with gsp's and small kids. I have an almost 5 y/o and 2 y/o daughters and an 11 month and 6 year old female gsp's. The older gsp Trego was just over a year old when we brought home our first daughter. The meeting happened in the driveway and our daughter was still strapped in the car seat. Trego came up cautiously and approached and kind of lunged around like she was prey. We were surprised by this reaction and she did it for several minutes and we held on to her and let her sniff and told her in a calm voice that it was okay. We paid close attention those first weeks and Trego was always very interested in the baby, but never really showed any aggressive signs, but would put her nose right up to Ava's mouth and face and smell her like when she is trying to sniff a squirrel through a window in the house. After some time it became evident that Trego was no threat and liked to clean up spit up milk and areas around the high chair.
I have taught the older gsp not to go through a door when the kids are going through the door and the 11 month is still learning. I supervise the kids feeding the dogs and make the kids take the food away while they are eating, I do the same thing to teach them that humans are the boss period. I enfoce strictly inside the house rules and the dogs are usually out of their kennels when in the house. We are fortunate that neither gsp has ever growled or acted aggressive or scared of the kids. I hope that we have fostered a good relationship between kids and dogs and I don't let the kids tease or get too rough with the dogs, but do allow and encourage them to be in the same space/rooms and get along and play.
Sometimes dogs act strangley to a new situation, but with positive interactions you may find the dogs to be a great part of the kids lives.

Good luck and keep us informed how it is going. Your daughter is beautiful and enjoy as your lives will never be the same.
Matt

[JstLovesGSP's]

After the initial greeting, you can bring your dog with you to sit next to the baby; reward your dog with treats for appropriate behavior. Remember, you want your dog to view associating with the baby as a positive experience. To prevent anxiety or injury, never force your dog to get near the baby, and always supervise any interaction.

Life will no doubt be hectic caring for your new baby, but try to maintain regular routines as much as possible to help your dog adjust. And be sure to spend one-on-one quality time with your dog each day—it may help relax you, too. With proper training, supervision, and adjustments, you, your new baby, and your dog should be able to live together safely and happily as one (now larger) family.

Good luck with the baby and your dogs!

[megschristina]

I can not presume to tell you what to do with your dog. But with mine I have incredibly high standards. Snapping at a child...unnacceptable, and biting a child would equal a dirt nap. Good luck.

[bruns333]

Here are photos of the actual meeting between our first newborn and our 1 y/o gsp.
We did the whole bring home a piece of newborn clothing to get the dog used to the smell. not sure it helped. I would not tolerate any aggressive behaivor either, but with supervision at first the dog could at least be given a chance to interact with the infant. If my dogs growled/bit one of my kids now they may or may not live to the vets office!!

[GSPVIZ]

Ha my Viz did the same thing with the pacifier!

[texscala]

I had taught my dog a command "settle" which she new meant that she had to relax and be soft. When the baby was introduced the "settle" command was given and we would watch her carefully and make sure she was super soft. Never left them alone until we trusted the dog and the kid which happened around 18 months. Now they are best friends, sleep together, look out the window together, My daughters 3rd word was my dogs name "Arrow", and every mourning when she gets up and comes to our bed she yells for Arrow until the dog comes.

We also had her around babies as often as possible before our daughter was born. Here she is at about 4 months with our niece





After a dove hunt with our newborn


And here she is at 8 months with it all figured out.

[briarpatch]

So Matt,
Curious to know how it is going now with the dogs and the baby or what did you and mom come up with for a solution?

[GSPVIZ]

Hey, actually they are doing well. After the initial excitement they could really care less unless she is crying then they want to see whats going on. They are not allowed on the couch anymore and they have learned that very quickly.

I think the frustration that my wife had when the baby was first brought home has settled and everything is getting better.

Thanks for asking.

[gonehuntin']

Remember to never leave that baby unguarded when the dog is there. There is no child worth a dog no matter how much you may like that dog.

[briarpatch]

Hey, actually they are doing well. After the initial excitement they could really care less unless she is crying then they want to see whats going on. They are not allowed on the couch anymore and they have learned that very quickly.

I think the frustration that my wife had when the baby was first brought home has settled and everything is getting better.

Thanks for asking.

Matt,
really glad to hear it is working out for y'all, great to hear Pokey is doing better ..Really glad to hear you didnt have to give up one or both of the pups over this..

Dennis

[GSPVIZ]

Well things are getting much better.

This is what they do now:

[megschristina]

I am glad it worked out. Please be vigilant in not leaving them together unattended ever though. Good luck.