Weim's

[Kory]

Although I have greatly enjoyed the long picture thread a while back of the setters and all of the spirited discussions of the most influential pointer studs, and the GSP’s worthy of the hall of fame ect ect it has got me thinking that the sad thing is that through this forum I have learned a lot but now I know more about some other breads than my bread of choice the Weim.

So I thought that I would try to get some discussion about the grey ghost going so here are a few questions to get it started and of course pictures are always welcome.

1. Which lines of the past have most influenced the current field weim
2. If you were only able to watch a few weims at a field trial or hunt test are there any out there that you make a point to watch as they usually put on a breath taking performance or exhibit where the weim as a bread should be headed. (Scarlet and Chevy form this forum seem to be getting it done on a regular basis.)
3. Are there any young dogs out there that you are keeping you eye on?
4. And for those with other breeds are there any weims out there that have impressed you?

[Ricky Ticky Shorthairs]

Joe Fingerlin from Omaha has some REAL NICE derbies on the ground right now. They were running pretty big last time I talked to him. (1/4 mi. plus)

PM me, I can get you in touch with him if you'd like.

Doug

[ymepointer]

I am not an expert, but I did have a field weim almost 20 years ago and I did learn a little if I can remember. I may be wrong but here is how I sort of see the past landscape, there are not many field bred kennels out there but there are a few. I won't go into the current kennels but I will talk about some that were in the past. There is one field line from the 70's I think called the weinerschnitzel line that is or at least was in most of the weims I recall. Ted Jarmie also had a kennel that is in many field dogs his line was the Redhill. In the late eighties, There were 3 well known kennels, Von horn on the east cost, the Deaugh kennels in Colorado, and the Outdoors kennel in California. I would suspect if you look at a pedigree and your weim is field bred, it will come from those roots. The weims history is similar to the irish setter in that the field dogs are now a very very small part of the dogs produced. the weim has suffered over the years because of it's pretty grey coat. Many here will not know this but I believe a Weim won the First Two runnings of the American Field sponsored German Pointing dog Championships back in the 50's but now there may not be one capable of qualifying. Here is I think a pic of that first German Pointing Dog Championships...Kory, I took a look at your pups pedigree and it is a mixed field show line. The field side goes back to wienrshnitzel through deaug and layback kennels both of these kennels had weinersnitchel roots. The bottom side is all show stock I believe. Many breeders recently have started to cross the field and show lines and some like Pam and Ginny Alexaders Reiteralm kennels have had some success with these dual breedings.

Although I have greatly enjoyed the long picture thread a while back of the setters and all of the spirited discussions of the most influential pointer studs, and the GSP’s worthy of the hall of fame ect ect it has got me thinking that the sad thing is that through this forum I have learned a lot but now I know more about some other breads than my bread of choice the Weim.

So I thought that I would try to get some discussion about the grey ghost going so here are a few questions to get it started and of course pictures are always welcome.

1. Which lines of the past have most influenced the current field weim
2. If you were only able to watch a few weims at a field trial or hunt test are there any out there that you make a point to watch as they usually put on a breath taking performance or exhibit where the weim as a bread should be headed. (Scarlet and Chevy form this forum seem to be getting it done on a regular basis.)
3. Are there any young dogs out there that you are keeping you eye on?
4. And for those with other breeds are there any weims out there that have impressed you?

[ymepointer]

Seems Ray G mentioned Axels Blue byou von Reiteralm as one he liked in another thread on Weim Studs. I have not watched any weims run field trials in about 6 years so I can't say much about the current ones. I did get to see Gus(Westends Kennel/Grau Geist kennel lines) and TJ(Outdoor Line) and they were very nice bird dogs. I also saw two or 3 that were in your pups peds back in the 1990's Nick Chopper was a very big running weim at the time, SGt Shultz was a very nice bird dog, and his son Saga, who Pam bred too was a very stylish dog when I saw him.

[CherrystoneWeims]

The dogs who have really shaped our field dogs- Sgt. schultz (your dog's grandfather); ***** Andick's Big Time Jake**** produced a LOT of FC (your dog's great grandfather); Outdoors Tony Lama; Edith von Horn (she's in the hall of fame). I could go on but these are some of the greats.

Marilyn Horn has had a lot of field champions that she has bred. I would have to say that the Reiteralm line has really done a LOT for the Weimaraner breed here in the US. Ginny (the heart of Reiteralm) is the one who directed me to breed the litter that produced your pup. When/if the new issue of her book Weimaraner Ways is published you really need to get a copy. It is the bible for Weimaraners. Gordon and Shirley Hanson from CA (Outdoors kennel) have done a lot for the breed. I heard recently that they are retiring.

Hmm dogs that have impressed me.
FC Saga's Blitzkrieg v Reiteralm- He's a good looking dog (could be a DC if his owner would just show him!!) What really impresses me is the HEART of this dog! He only has ONE lung and yet has become a FC!! He is half brother to your dog.
Cali- She is a very young bitch and has won 2 of hte 4 futurities this year. She will be one to watch!
Deitz's Sascha Nogoodnic- She won the NFC NAFC in 2007 amazing Sadly she died last summer. I got to see her at summer camp just before she died.
Questfound Bottle Rocket- He is a LOT of dog. VERY hard to handle. Young dog.
Ruby- She's a Waybac bitch. I have watched her quite a few times and have been impressed every time. This is her first season and I think that she has a very bright future.
And of course your dog's daddy- I never got to see him run but what he has produced has really impressed me. I have heard so many wonderful stories about him. Wonderful personality ( I have met him in person!!) produces that wonderful personality, A dog who can go from the field to being a Therapy dog. He's a certified therapy dog. NFC/NAFC/DC/MH as you know. Natural backer. I feel very privileged that Ginny gave me a good recommendation to Saga's owner and she let me have frozen semen for two breedings.

As Yme said there are some of us who are trying very hard to bring the Weimaraner breed back. Trying to breed for Dual dogs is not very easy in any breed but it is very hard in the Weims. We have a tremendous split between the show and the field people. I'm in between a rock and a hard place because I don't fit into either world! The show people say "Why did you breed to "that" dog" and the field people say that Pearl must not be able to hunt because she is showbred :roll: Sadly we have very few DC's in the Weimaraner breed. I feel that it is time for us to take some lessons from the Brit and viszla breeds. They produce quite a few DC's. It's also time for Weim breeders to stop making excuses for their dogs. Both the show for dogs that are overdone and can't hunt and the field for dogs with very poor conformation.

[Kory]

Doug thanks for the offer but I don't need to get in tough with him I'm just trying to learn as much about wiems as I can and get a little discution going and thanks to everyone for the great info

Kory

[Maverick57]

I have had my share of hunting dog in my years, BUT I will have to say for me there is no other but a Weim, MY very best girl was, Lady Hanna's Special Request, I have been tearing up the house to find her papers,so I could pm Cherrystone weims about her blood line and see if anyone might have something close. She was big for a female 28 at the shoulder, great house dog, good tracker, great upland & waterfowl dog. I have had some other types of hunting dogs since then but I guess I got really spoiled to her, she pretty much knew what I was thinking and what I wanted before I ever said anything. She was My 1 in a million friend.

So I guess for me my next hunting partner will be a Grey Ghost, When the time comes.

P.S. Talk about a dog who could do it all, In the winter of 2002, I trained her to find drugs and for 2 years she was my back up drug sniffing partner. I lost the Best Friend I ever had the day she crossed the bridge.


Maverick57

[CherrystoneWeims]

I have had my share of hunting dog in my years, BUT I will have to say for me there is no other but a Weim, MY very best girl was, Lady Hanna's Special Request, I have been tearing up the house to find her papers,so I could pm Cherrystone weims about her blood line and see if anyone might have something close. She was big for a female 28 at the shoulder, great house dog, good tracker, great upland & waterfowl dog. I have had some other types of hunting dogs since then but I guess I got really spoiled to her, she pretty much knew what I was thinking and what I wanted before I ever said anything. She was My 1 in a million friend.

So I guess for me my next hunting partner will be a Grey Ghost, When the time comes.

P.S. Talk about a dog who could do it all, In the winter of 2002, I trained her to find drugs and for 2 years she was my back up drug sniffing partner. I lost the Best Friend I ever had the day she crossed the bridge.

When you find her papers just let me know and I will help you out.


Maverick57

Maverick,

Just say the word and we can set you up with another Weim. I have always said that a Weim would be a great drug dog. I would love to get one of my pups into a drug detection program.

They are dogs that are VERY much in tune with their owners. It's almost like you become one with them.

[zzweims]

yme--you mentioned some greats. Weinerschnitzel, Redhill, Outdoors, and Deaugh are behind most of the current crop of successful field weims, including my own. I like Pam's choices too. All VERY nice dogs. In fact, now is a great time to own a field weim because there are too many good ones out there to list. Here, I'll just give my short list of the sires and dams that I think are having a large impact on the breed today:

Boys:

Ryder (and his sons)
Schultz (and his sons)
Axel (via "on the rise" kennels)

Girls:

Lyza Jane (a blue hen if ever there was one. Never saw a Lyza Jane pup/grand pup that was less than outstanding)
Rainy (a DC from straight show lines. She put 'on the rise' kennels on the field map, and serious wheels in her pups)
TJ (a west coast girl, so I've only seen some of her pups/grand pups--but all were very impressive)

There are several others that have produced well and consistantly, including my Chevy's sire Buddy, but they were/are underused compared to the dogs listed above, so their impact is/has been less overall.

Aline
http://zzfarms

[zzweims]

1. Which lines of the past have most influenced the current field weim
2. If you were only able to watch a few weims at a field trial or hunt test are there any out there that you make a point to watch as they usually put on a breath taking performance or exhibit where the weim as a bread should be headed. (Scarlet and Chevy form this forum seem to be getting it done on a regular basis.)
3. Are there any young dogs out there that you are keeping you eye on?
4. And for those with other breeds are there any weims out there that have impressed you?

1. Answered above

2. Questbound Bottle Rocket, Aztec's Well Alright, Erbenhof's Boogie Woogie Bo, Zoomie (something 'on the rise'), Buck's Blue Boy, Indy (Waybac), Ziggy (Gould's), and Sasha when she was alive. There are a lot of others, but if I watch them, I'll get asked to scout. And my little horse is getting too old to keep up

3. Boogie Woogie Bo. There is a Sampson puppy in Florida that impressed the snot out of me (forgot her name). Scarlett. And of course, my own baby Jesus

4. Not qualified to answer

Aline
http://zzfarms

[GrayDawg]

Wow...... just reading this thread brought me back- WAY back to the mid-late 90's. I was involved as an amateur field trialer (strictly east coast, couldn't travel too far except for Ardmore, OK once a year) and was able to see some very nice dogs run. There was a dog, DC Jo-Ron's Silber Elch (Moose), owned by a woman named Diane Vater who was an amateur-turned-pro FT'er. This dog was out of "Cowboy" and bred by Jo & Maury James of Boulder, CO. Moose was a really nice dog to watch- he had an adonis of a body compared to most of the other FT dogs he competed against in his time. Another really impressive Weim was FC, AFC Gray's Ghost Hunter "Duke", owned by Jeff Gray & bred by Sue Thomas out of Camelot Kennels. Duke was a great dog to watch run & handled his birds very well. Both of these dogs made the gallery sit up in their saddle and I was honored to be able to shoot over both of them during call backs in the '97 Eastern Regionals.

D!ck Hanson was a pro who had some nice Weims on his string as did Scott Beyer (I believe Scott trained/handled some of Marilyn Horn's dogs). D!ck Wilbur in TX had some nice dogs who not only field Trialed, but were hard huntin' bird dogs in Lubbock, TX. My female that I ran (strictly GunDog stakes) was the eighth Weimaraner ever registered in NAVHDA (WM0008) and was used primarily as a Grouse & Duck dog. But I liked to put her on the line with the "sprinters" just to stretch her out a bit in the spring when we weren't hunting for real. She was a Camelot bred dog with no particularly stunning pedigree, but somehow I managed to drop over 850 Grouse & Ducks over her in the timber & in the swamp during her 12.5 short years on this planet!

It was about the time my female turned 7 or 8 that I realized what kind of an 8-Ball the Field-bred Weims were behind after the wreckless breeding by the vast majority of the show folks for "strictly bench" dogs during the 80's. It simply decimated the gene pool for weims with respect to field blood. The few field breeders left were forced to go tight (within their line) with respect to breeding and we all know that even the best field-bred lines need to dip outside their line every now and then. I realized this when I went down to the Ames Plantation to watch THE National Field Trial Championships in 2001- I saw EPs & a few ESs that made me come to the conclusion that there really isn't such a thing as an AA Weim Field Trial Dog. Not when you compare the course that These EPs & ESs were putting down. I'd been to Ardmore, OK three times in the three previous years for the WCA National Field Championships- I saw the best of the best of what the Weimaraner breed had to offer the FT world. At the time, I thought these dogs were good. And don't get me wrong- for Weimaraners, the dogs that made it to Ardmore WERE good! But when comparing the runs put down in Ardmore with that of the runs put down by EPs & a couple ESs at Ames........ we're talking Apples & Watermelons.

My hat goes off to anyone who is breeding Weims for the field. You have taken on a daunting task- NOT impossible, but a very tough road indeed. The Weim is such a regal, gallant & fiercely loyal breed that I'm sure and success you reap will be exponentially sweeter than that achieved by folks breeding other dogs.
Good luck to you all- my female has been gone for almost 4 years now and she has set the bar for any gundog I'll ever own (and I'm bringing a new pup into my home next month).

Rob

[ymepointer]

I can answer number 4......at least from 20-10 years ago or so. I have seen some really nice all breed competitive weims back in the day, and they are probably in many of the current crop.

Outdoors Tony Lama --- Complete package, range, speed, style, and blue hen in her own right, Why she never won the National is a Mystery to me?
Hoguland tiger von thor------very stylish, great manors around game....not very big running but had ground speed, nice backer
Westends Lil Sage Ryder------Very nice ground speed, tough, no quit, push button dog very good stud dog
Grau Geists lIl Gust von westend(Gus)---See description for Tony lama sans the blue hen part
Goulds ??? (TJ)----See description for Tony Lama
High ridge Jesse von Horn, Super stylish, and impecible on his birds, Nice ground speed but not a horizon buster

[zzweims]

Hey Rob:

Do we know each other? My husband Nikolaus (big German guy) and I didn't get into trialing weims until the late '90s. We own 2xNAFC FC AFC Aztec's American Pie, JH,SDX He's a Duke grandson (loved that dog!), and soon to be a grandpa himself. He also goes back to Camelot. I know what you mean about comparing apples to watermelons! That cracked me up! I've ridden Ames too, and all I could think was "the weim has a loooong way to go" I think the closest thing we ever had to an AA weim was Robinsky's Deaugh Davidson. Robie won a few all breed AA stakes in his day. I think Sasha could have held her own in AA. Maybe not have won, but she had the right ingredients. Ditto for Chular (Gould's). And Zoomie (on the rise) wore my little scouting horse to the ground at Ardmore last year. That girl can cover some territory! Who's your new pup out of? Are you getting a gray dog?

Aline Scharpf
http://zzfarms

[Maverick57]

Cherrystone,

That is such a true statment, Taylor always knew what I wanted, she was my partner, friend babysitter guard dog,
my girls swimming buddy, there was nothing that big grey girl could not do. Amazing Girl my Taylor. Yes we will be talking about a pup when the time comes, I will PM you in a day or so for info on your grey kids, I will not be ready for a pup till in the fall, new job, need to get set scheduale going before I bring a pup into the mix.

Lisa

[GrayDawg]

Aline,
I don't believe we know each other- at least not that I can recall. Yes, Duke was a great dog- no doubt. I didn't want to attempt to beat the odds yet again and try to get a Weim that would be servicable in both the timber & marsh. I realized I got VERY lucky 15 years ago and simply wasn't willing to roll the dice again. I decided to put the odds in my favor- I'm getting a GSP bitch out of Top Gun Kennels in Iowa. Both parents are MHs, the Grandsire on the top is "Higgins", GSPCA Hunt Test Sire of the Year in 2008. Both top & bottom sides of the pedigree go back to HillHaven's Hustler- multiple times. There are 3 different DCs & another 2 FCs in the pedigree going 4 generations back. I fly out on 6/27 to pick her up. My family & I are very excited.

If you ever run into Diane Vater on the FT curcuit, tell her Rob (Aja's owner) says hello.

Good Luck afield,

Rob

Hey Rob:

Do we know each other? My husband Nikolaus (big German guy) and I didn't get into trialing weims until the late '90s. We own 2xNAFC FC AFC Aztec's American Pie, JH,SDX He's a Duke grandson (loved that dog!), and soon to be a grandpa himself. He also goes back to Camelot. I know what you mean about comparing apples to watermelons! That cracked me up! I've ridden Ames too, and all I could think was "the weim has a loooong way to go" I think the closest thing we ever had to an AA weim was Robinsky's Deaugh Davidson. Robie won a few all breed AA stakes in his day. I think Sasha could have held her own in AA. Maybe not have won, but she had the right ingredients. Ditto for Chular (Gould's). And Zoomie (on the rise) wore my little scouting horse to the ground at Ardmore last year. That girl can cover some territory! Who's your new pup out of? Are you getting a gray dog?

Aline Scharpf
http://zzfarms

[CherrystoneWeims]

If you ever run into Diane Vater on the FT curcuit, tell her Rob (Aja's owner) says hello.

Good Luck afield,

Rob

Rob,

I'll say Hi to Diane for you. She handles Scarlett for me.

[GrayDawg]

Pam,
Thank you very much. Diane is a GREAT canine behavioralist & a field trialer of the utmost integrity. Your dog is in very good hands in Diane's stead.
I was very good friends with Diane when she turned pro. The night she finished Moose's FC (thus making him a DC), she called from her truck happy as all get out. She handled Aja's daughter, "Josie" in some derby stakes for me while I was very busy with work one spring. Josie came back to me with a great sense of purpose whenever I put her on the ground after that. I attribute alot of that to Diane.

Please send her my best and tell her to look me up if she's ever heading up to Flaherty in CT.

Rob

If you ever run into Diane Vater on the FT curcuit, tell her Rob (Aja's owner) says hello.

Good Luck afield,

Rob

Rob,

I'll say Hi to Diane for you. She handles Scarlett for me.

[zzweims]

rob

Sounds like you're getting a nice pup! As far as 'beating the odds' goes, you are smart to get a gsp. Overall, you've got a better chance of getting a good one. But the weim has improved greatly in recent years, and more importantly, many many more breeders are concentrating on field ability. It is no longer necessary to wait a year or travel to the other side of the country to find a good hunting weim.

Aline
http://zfarms