SD or AA ? to trial people and judges

[terrylndrs]

I am new to field trials and wanting to get started and have a question about the judging of the dogs. I have noticed, for example the 2009 NGSPA Pheasant Championship that Hi N's Hurricane Express won both the ASD and the AA. To me it seems like it would be a contradiction for a dog to win both. If a dog is a SD isn't it's range to short for an all age and if it's an AA isn't the range to big for a shooting dog? How can you get both out of one dog? Is this a matter of having different judges looking for different things? Please help me to understand. Maybe I'm wrong but , to me it seems like taking a NFL quarterback (AA) and letting them go back to college (SD) and play.
All thoughts welcome

P.s.
Congradulations to Hank. This is not ment to be a knock on Hank. Only using this as an example. I have seen this other places also.

[postoakshorthairs]

I'm not an expert by any stretch...but I think he won the All Age with a Pro handler and the Amatuer Shooting Dog with his owner/am handler.

[terrylndrs]

In the AA he was handled by a pro, but I don't see why that would make the dog run bigger. Shouldn't a dog run a similar race no mater who is handling?

[topher40]

A TRUE AA dog can run in a Sh dog, it does however take more hacking to keep in contact with the dog to get it around and shorten it up. Alot of times you can take a HUGE running SH dog that "could" run AA, albeit a short AA, and still win with the number of finds and birdwork in an AA event. It takes a very special dog to run in multiple venues AND excel. They are few and far between but a beautiful thing to watch.

[BigShooter]

terrylndrs,

Being a newbie you get to learn all of the various terms thrown around by folks. Guys will talk about "true" AA dogs & "tweeners". In this context its generally about how big the dog runs and how it covers the field. Tweeners are considered to be big running shooting dogs, that can at times compete as AAs. Sometimes these big running shooting dogs continue to develop nicely into true AA competitors. Remember the courses are all different. A true AA dog should be the same nation wide however some will say a AA dog by Eastern standards may only be a shooting dog out west. So there are some dogs a little better suited to running both AA & SD under certain circumstances & conditions. However as has been pointed out already its still about the handling and in many situations it requires more vocalization by the handler to help the AA dog around the SD course.

[Sharon]

A TRUE AA dog can run in a Sh dog, it does however take more hacking to keep in contact with the dog to get it around and shorten it up. Alot of times you can take a HUGE running SH dog that "could" run AA, albeit a short AA, and still win with the number of finds and birdwork in an AA event. It takes a very special dog to run in multiple venues AND excel. They are few and far between but a beautiful thing to watch.

Excellent response.

[Greg Jennings]

I think a lot of the "AA" shorthairs are tweeners; shooting dogs that make big booming moves.

Frankly, all I want is a gun dog that will hit a edge and go.

Greg J.

[3Britts]

I think a lot of the "AA" shorthairs are tweeners; shooting dogs that make big booming moves.

Frankly, all I want is a gun dog that will hit a edge and go.

Greg J.

Me too.

[myerstenn]

I'm not an expert by any stretch...but I think he won the All Age with a Pro handler and the Amatuer Shooting Dog with his owner/am handler.

In reality the handler has very little affect on rage from stake to stake. When judging an all-age stake race should be the prime consideration. Quanity of birds means very little unless race and bird work is simular.In the south and areas where courses are tight three is very little difference in race from aa to sd. On the praries it a completely different story , race becomes very apparent and obviously the bigger the better.

[postoakshorthairs]

I might have been way off in my response. I didn't know if he was clear that he was handled as an amatuer and a pro stake.

[terrylndrs]

Thank you for all your responses. Very Informative

[Hotpepper]

Steiger calls them "grey dogs" and they are by far the most fun to run with, hunt with and compete with. My dog has won both the AA and OSD in one hour stakes and in the same trial. He is just wonderful to run as all you have to do is go to the front and find him standing, if you have not seen him for a bit, handler and scout get busy.\

I really disagree with some that they are seperated by the number of finds that a shooting dog has and an allage dog is supposed to not find.

Wild birds separate the sheep from the goats in these trials. The allage guy will just stand out.

Jerry