Maybe because the "best dog" IS a Miller dog?Ron R wrote:Is it just me or does it seem that in the AA world it does'nt come down to who has the best dog but rather who has the best Miller dog.Ron
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Maybe because the "best dog" IS a Miller dog?Ron R wrote:Is it just me or does it seem that in the AA world it does'nt come down to who has the best dog but rather who has the best Miller dog.Ron
I pretty much spoke my piece on the hi-jacked thread.ymepointer wrote:Well, not much needs to be said, Mr. Miller really bred a strong line of All age pointers for sure, I have had a few of them they all had big motors and were bird crazy!
I would like to get into this a little but it would be another hi jack.PntrRookie wrote:All seriousness, certain breedings seem to shine in certain venues.
It seems Mr Millers dogs will be in better hands than Mr Wehle's were left to.......PntrRookie wrote:I think part of the equation (maybe a big part of it) is where do they go from here. And when we look back 10 years from now will we say the foundation Miller set, was lifted with excellent breedings and upstanding individuals...Phillips...Wiggins...Lester...?
The foundation has definately been set in stone but it's still unfortunate that White Powder and Dateline had been cheated from there true winning and producing potential.PntrRookie wrote:I think part of the equation (maybe a big part of it) is where do they go from here. And when we look back 10 years from now will we say the foundation Miller set, was lifted with excellent breedings and upstanding individuals
My gut tells me no. I have a funny feeling many of the white dogs out there still have his fingerprint on them (literally).Ron R wrote:Does anybody think that the AF will someday reinstate Mr Ferrel Miller? Ron
Again, most say Joe Shadow, but I say ...Nell. Joe Shadow is by HOF CH Go Boy's Shadow top and bottom. Go Boy's Shadow is by a Nell son, HOF CH Addition's Go Boy.obviously w/ In the Shadow - Joe Shadow
That hasn't been my experience. They are some of the easiest dogs I have ever trained.I honestly can say, a Miller bred dog isn't for the fate hearted.
Same here, I will take 50 Miller dogs to work any day. Easy, biddable dogs every last one I have ver had, I even foot hunt em every yearYawallac wrote:That hasn't been my experience. They are some of the easiest dogs I have ever trained.I honestly can say, a Miller bred dog isn't for the fate hearted.
Big Dave, I for one am posting this all in support of what Ferrill has done and think he should be thanked!
Obviously. My point was that as a Motherline breeder, I find it very interesting to study the bottoms of pedigrees as well as the tops. Wasn't trying to discredit Miller blood in any way shape or form. We own two White Powder daughters and nine (9) Guard Rail daughters, ALL will be bred to Miller studs.i think if you look at wiggin's miss sammie and wiggin's twist n shout while they do both have some go boy in them, they have more miller in them than anything else.
Lots of females were bred to those champions, some produced and some didn't. But Nell produced with all of them! She probably could have produced a Champion from a stump!also when talking about some of the nell dogs, it would not be fair to discredit some of the great sires she was bred to especially in the case of joe's shadow, it seems that everyone forgets about the crosses in thetr to ch.fiddler,
I agree.and as for the argument if ferrell should ever be reinstated, both sides could argue their points forever on that matter. I hated to see the dogs being punished. I agree with Ron R. that not only were dateline and white powder to phenomanal producers that left a legacy, but it is unreal just how strong their impact may have been if they could've continued to have produced pups and what if they had frozen semen off these 2 dogs like many of the other great sires such as go boy. while i don't condone what ferrell did, there was once another great breeder that said " i am selling you the cake, not the recipe". goodluck, sckwest
I won't dispute that Neil. I was expressing my opinion from what I have seen, which is very limited.Neil wrote:I have spent a good bit of time on the couch with a littermate of Buster's, Ben Adams, he is a loving, well mannered dog, as are most of the other white dogs I have been around, if they are given the chance.
It is just a myth that they are not personable.
Neil
Agree...........Neil wrote:I have spent a good bit of time on the couch with a littermate of Buster's, Ben Adams, he is a loving, well mannered dog, as are most of the other white dogs I have been around, if they are given the chance.
It is just a myth that they are not personable.
Neil
My opinion is after. Happy Jack is barely out of his derby seasons, so that only makes him "roughly" 2+ yrs old.hoosier wrote:Was this picture taken before or after his run in with the AF?
SCKWEST, I almost mentioned Woody when you wrote about the Fiddler influence. He has a very interesting pedigree IMO. He is a beautiful animal and I have been trying to figure out how to work him into our program. He would bring Nell in through Gateway Matador (Fiddler), which we don't currently have. BTW, he just won another Championship here in SC recently. I really like him.with one being a son of go boy to a daughter of honky tonk gigolo
I guess I am making a mistake of trying to compare them to GSP'S.SCKWEST wrote:I couldn't agree with you more Neil, the pointers get a horrible rap. It seems like the general consensus is that pointers are high strung dogs that are not good pets and only hunt for themselves. My experience has been the exact opposite. I have young children that go out back with me when i feed and the dogs love them and are as gentle as can be. I have noticed that some of the Miller dogs do seem to be "1-man" dogs, by this i mean that some seem to be very skiddish towards anyone other than their master. However, these Miller dogs are beasts in the field! Ross, Nell was obviously a great producer and played and continues to play a huge role in these dogs! I have two hvy bred Nell dogs myself, with one being a son of go boy to a daughter of honky tonk gigolo and a female that is a sister to your dogs off go boy and impulse. It does seem that the Miller dogs and their crosses are the dominant force in the all age world. The honky tonk attitude dogs really seem to still be a strong force in the NBHA as well as NSTRA. Another thing that I have noticed is that the Elhew dogs seem to cross very well with just about every line out there. good luck and great guys, sckwest
Charlie, my avatar has a NAVHDA NA 107 Prize II and he's on George Tracy's Shooting Dog string.I guess I am making a mistake of trying to compare them to GSP'S.
I think what you mean is they are not very accepting of strangers, as certainly the current crop of Gary Lester/Joe Don House white dogs are proving that either they or Ike Todd can run them with great success. They seem to adapt quickly.SCKWEST wrote:I I have noticed that some of the Miller dogs do seem to be "1-man" dogs, by this i mean that some seem to be very skiddish towards anyone other than their master.
Not so sure how factual your facts are.Neil wrote:Here are the facts, he cheated, got caught, and wouldn't own up. You can admire the dogs without respecting his methods.
Well said and so very true. The dogs aren't at fault and they aren't suffering. The other breeders are the ones that got hurt when he showed a complete disregard of them and their dogs when he cheated. Hard for me to respect a person like that.Neil wrote:I think what you mean is they are not very accepting of strangers, as certainly the current crop of Gary Lester/Joe Don House white dogs are proving that either they or Ike Todd can run them with great success. They seem to adapt quickly.SCKWEST wrote:I I have noticed that some of the Miller dogs do seem to be "1-man" dogs, by this i mean that some seem to be very skiddish towards anyone other than their master.
I am a fan of Ferrel Miller, really I am. It is just the myth is too great a burden for any one man. He was a good breeder, a good developer of young dogs, and a good promoter, but in terms of open All-Age wins, Gary Lester will exceed him as a handler, if he hasn't already. Nearly all of Ferrel's Championship wins were in Amateur and Derby stakes, he won the National Championship - once in 40 years of trying, and never won the Purina Award.
Here are the facts, he cheated, got caught, and wouldn't own up. You can admire the dogs without respecting his methods.
Neil
Sorry. That's a monumental cop out for someone who is placing their success over/above the integrity of the sportkylenicholas02 wrote:While racing, EVERY team I drove for believed it wasn't cheating unless you got caught..
As someone who doesn't own EPs and certainly doesn't trial at the AA level, for my edification- what was Mr. Miller accused of/caught doing?kylenicholas02 wrote:Ferrel got caught... And dont think there's not anyone cheating in dogs today...
This thread was NOT started to become a bashing opportunity regarding the past practices of ALL (not just Ferrell), those involved with the American Field and their decision regarding Ferrell Miller. I in NO way have any first hand knowledge, it was way before my time. In a nutshell (and that does not give it the amount of creditability it should). The AF suspended/banned Mr. Miller because he would not agree to their testing/accusation that certain litters were not registered correctly. Thus owners were purchasing dogs that were not registered correctly. Many say it was not only the stud dogs (Miller) that were wrong...other owners of the dams had misrepresented paper work as well. My understanding was that those other individuals did cooperate with the Field and when Mr. Miller put his foot down and said no, they did not accept it.GrayDawg wrote:As someone who doesn't own EPs and certainly doesn't trial at the AA level, for my edification- what was Mr. Miller accused of/caught doing? Rob
Ross, Nice blend and as I stated earlier I am kinda looking forward to a GuardRail/Miller cross. I would like to improve a little on my female's stature, deeper chest and higher tail set. She has the run that will blend well (maybe too wellYawallac wrote:My avatar's dam is by Guard Rail and a full sister to SLN.
I'm not looking to "bash" Mr. Miller whatsoever. I'm simply trying to learn- come up to speed on what some here are considering/referencing as common knowledge. I did use the term "accused of/caught" when asking my question. Thank you very much for your answer- I now feel "enlightened". Whether the accusations are true or false, only Mr. Miller will ever know. Life goes on..........PntrRookie wrote:This thread was NOT started to become a bashing opportunity regarding the past practices of ALL (not just Ferrell), those involved with the American Field and their decision regarding Ferrell Miller. I in NO way have any first hand knowledge, it was way before my time. In a nutshell (and that does not give it the amount of creditability it should). The AF suspended/banned Mr. Miller because he would not agree to their testing/accusation that certain litters were not registered correctly. Thus owners were purchasing dogs that were not registered correctly. Many say it was not only the stud dogs (Miller) that were wrong...other owners of the dams had misrepresented paper work as well. My understanding was that those other individuals did cooperate with the Field and when Mr. Miller put his foot down and said no, they did not accept it.GrayDawg wrote:As someone who doesn't own EPs and certainly doesn't trial at the AA level, for my edification- what was Mr. Miller accused of/caught doing? Rob
Let's talk white dogs of today and how the white dogs of yesterday have helped the breed.
Ross, did you get a chance to see SLN and what did you like about him? How is he built? I can not seem to Google any pictures of him.
I agree Ross, like I said I was just kidding.Yawallac wrote:Charlie, my avatar has a NAVHDA NA 107 Prize II and he's on George Tracy's Shooting Dog string.I guess I am making a mistake of trying to compare them to GSP'S.![]()
If you train them like a GSP, they won't know the difference.
Oh yeah!?! NAVHDA test a Pointer and tell me that!One of the things I like about NAVHDA is the fact that there is no breed prejudice...
Go Boy dams.Let's look at the "Motherside" - if you will. What recent (within 2-3 generations) b@#$hes are producing with Miller studs? Here are a few...