Kennel Floor Options

[mountaindogs]

This question has been posted and discussed before, but I am hoping for new insights and for updates from those who have now had their floors for several years. We are looking to fix the kennel flooring, and originally had a bid on concrete for a 20' x 40' section (about 4.5 yards) come back at almost $3000! This is a whole lot for a site that is on land that I do not own and there is some hesitation in allowing us to build a permanant concrete slab that big, thoough I believe I could convince them.

I have looked at the concrete paver idea, the farmtek and another brand of similar plastic flooring, the hex style plastic that you put gravel into but it is dig proof, the nice but crazy expensive kennel deck, and the "instant floor" fabric which just does not seem like it would be right for so big a space AND does not seem durable enough.

AT this point it is the farmtek floor vs. the pavers I think, but please if you have pictures, or experience let me know.
Thanks!

[nitrex]

$3000 for concrete!!!!! I'm in the wrong business. Here in Kansas that is about $500 in materials (concrete and wire). Wish I could help with the other products, but don't have experience. Could you do the labor on the concrete slab and save some bucks? A few 2x6 for forms and a bull float would be a cheap investment for a Do It Yourself project and save over $2000.

Nitrex

[postoakshorthairs]

I poured concrete last year after going through all the different options....bare ground, pea gravel, treated lumber slats and plastic kennel decking. Nitrex is correct in you can save a bunch of money doing it yourself. The materials shouldn't be over 500-600 bucks if the yards you posted is correct...concrete here is around $80 a yard now. if you don't have any experience with concrete a 20 x 40 slab can turn into a huge mess in a hurry no matter what kind of tools you have. I personally wouldn't invest the 3k into a place i didn't own if i couldn't take it with me.

The pavers...i've tried and seen plenty of others who have tried. The benefit to concrete is having a smooth, seamless surface that is easy to clean, weed free etc. The pavers become uneven, weeds can grow between them, poop gets stuck in the cracks etc....

The plastic kennel flooring...I actually really liked this flooring but i used it in homemade kennels similar to the scott kennels. The ones i had were black so if there wasn't a roof on the kennel they were pretty hot in the summer. I like the fact that they drained so easily and little bits of poo would fall between the crack when i rinsed them. The problem was you had to reposition the kennels occasionally to clean beneath them. I don't have any experience with them directly on the ground so i'm no help there.

Good Luck! If you were closer I'd come help with the concrete for beer and food. That is actually a pretty good idea...i'm sure one of your friends knows a concrete worker. If you can find one guy who knows what they're doing and pay them a little cash on a saturday you can recruite 4 or 5 grunts he can direct and you can pay them beer and pizza. Even if you pay the guy 300-500 bucks and buy beer and pizza your still 1/3 the price for the concrete.

[Ron R]

Here is a very cheap but effective kennel floor. Wooden crates/skids and treated deck wood or just peice it together with scrap wood.

Good Luck
Ron

[mountaindogs]

Direct from the concrete co. it's $115 a yard delivered. That is actually way down from last year when it was over $200 yard. I guess it the rural location, and the fact the we are on a mountain and they have to get it up to us. Still the concrete itself is not that much compared to the bid. I have done little slabs, but that size will be way wider than I am used to. Never done much more than 6 feet. Also I have never done it on a slope and I need it to drain well. I could cut the size down to 20 x 20 and still be okay, but given that most of the bid price was labor and framing I don't think it will save that much. What about framing it in smaller sections and pouring them all seperatly. That would make it more managable for me to do. Could I frame it in maybe 5 x 20 foot sections like I was going to make the runs, and leave the framing in for the panels to sit on? I could probably do the 5 foot width decently but not great. It would take me alot longer.

I currently have gravel. The biggest issues are digging, and then the mud after they've been digging the gravel and dirt gets mixed up and the whole deal gets muddy in the rain. Which we have alot of. Sigh.

Post Oak,
Did you use the plastic "poutly type" flooring?
And heck I can throw in a quail hunt with 25 quail, and then a keg. And even an overnite in the rental cabin! All for alot less $3000.

[snips]

Did you get several estimates? I have really had them vary, plus there are some hungry people out there that need the work...

[mountaindogs]

This guy has been doing alot of work up here and his bids are usually very fair. He does quality work, and is trustworthy which is a bit of an issue so that we don't get trespassers with gate code and access, even though the codes are temp. But no, I didn't. Honestly it was SO SO much higher than I expected that I kinda thought that I'd have to forgo or change the plan.

[ACooper]

I am currently using kennel decking, it isnt perfect, but I am happy with it. Currently I have my frame setting on cinder blocks, but I am going to add heavy duty casters soon to aid in moving it around to clean under neath.

[postoakshorthairs]

What about framing it in smaller sections and pouring them all seperatly. That would make it more managable for me to do. Could I frame it in maybe 5 x 20 foot sections like I was going to make the runs, and leave the framing in for the panels to sit on? I could probably do the 5 foot width decently but not great. It would take me alot longer.

You could do that for sure. I've seen people do drives and patios like that. Frame it with treated or cedar and leave the frame in place. It does take a little less skill when you break the slab into smaller pieces because you can screed off the forms on both sides. It's also less likely a small slab will get away from you. I didn't finish mine super smooth because my dad has issues with his dogs, and himself, sliding on it when its slick and wet. The slope really isn't that big of an issue, I have an inch or two (can't recall) fall over twelve feet and it drains well.

[mountaindogs]

Would I need to grade the gravel bed below to the slope I want, then frame as normal on that slope, and then pour the concrete?

[mrscuddles]

the measurements you gave 20'x40'x4" would be roughly 9.8yds. a yd does roughly 10'x10'x4"

[mountaindogs]

my error. After the initial sticker shock I had started to think about a 20 x 20 and that is what it was figured on. I had forgotten that that was the second figure and not the first.
That does add several hundred $$ in concrete.

[Neil]

I have a "temporary" 10' X 10' kennel made from 12" smooth concrete pavers that cost just over $125 in 2002 and it is still doing fine. I laid CR 610 stone, wet it and rolled it, then put down sackcrete in a 11' X11' square, laid the pavers level with 3/8" gaps, broom swept sackcrete into to the cracks.

My intention was for it to last a couple of years and to be replaced, but it won't wear out. Last I saw at HOme Depot the pavers were up to $1.59, but I still think you can build one that should last 10 years or so for less than $2.00 a foot.

Neil

[mountaindogs]

Revisiting this topic please:
I have sized down the project, but am still getting very high seeming quotes based on the price of the concrete here.
What amount of slope per foot do you bigger kennel folks use and do you think it's enough for proper spray down?
Is it possible that the price is higher based on more expensive concrete that has a different "slump" for the grade?

And lastly does anybody recall or know what an average minum number of yards would be for delivering ready mix. My spouse was thinking probably 4 yards?

I know it's a gundog forum and not a concrete forum, but I guess I am on the fence between doing this myself perhaps not so perfectly (but having money left to get the shade cloth and HDPE dividers I want), and paying someone ALOT to do it right (and then having to wait for the other stuff for a long while...)

[Pleasant Ridge]

Check out 8X16 masonry block.. Lay 3 to 4 inches of chat then put the block on it.. I did this 5 years ago. Very inexpensive, very easy to do, very durable...

[GSPlover]

Ive used pea gravel for years and it does fine. Put down about 6 inches deep. Yea the dogs sometimes dig, but I just keep it raked down smooth daily when I remove the poop. Wash it down with the hose sometimes and it works great. Any bacteria is washed down into the gravel. Not the case with concrete, it lives on the surface. I also dont like my dogs lying on concrete all day.

[MataPAto]

Sorry, this is a little off-topic, but I couldn't help myself.

Random tidbit of information if you're as lazy as I am about doing math/calculating volumes- Google can do it for you. Just go to http://www.google.com and enter "20 feet * 40 feet * 4 inches in cubic yards" as your search. It will tell you the answer- almost 10 cubic yds, as someone has already pointed out.
Or maybe you want a 1/4in epoxy floor and you need to know how many gallons of epoxy you need? "20 ft * 40 ft * 0.25 in in gallons"
Or maybe you just wanted to know "20 ft * 40 ft in hectares"? How big is a hectare? I have no clue, but google does.

It will also do metric conversions (2.3 miles in kilometers), etc.

Hope I didn't derail this topic too bad, and maybe some of you will find it as handy as I do. And no, I didn't ask it how many GSP's it takes to make one EP...

-John

[mountaindogs]

I have had chat gravel for years, and it has some lovely benefits. It keeps their feet tight and tough, and doesn't cause sores as much. But they dig alot. I have had to hotwire the bottom and rewire it many times. Also they stay very dusty or muddy depending on the rain and I am tired of all the rewiring and filling in muddy holes. I am looking for a more cleanable surface at this point.

[GSPlover]

My gravel lot probaly stays in better shape because my 2 dogs usually are turned loose and roam my 3 acre yard. They pretty much just sleep at night in their lot.

[Rich Heaton]

Mountain dogs,,,, feel free to pm me with your phone number I can tell ya everything you will ever want to know about concrete,,,,, if ya have an extra 2 minutes. Slump will have nothing to do with the price of concrete. Min yards is whatever up to the redi mix company. The big savings is trying to get the contractors discount, concrete is one of the items that is usually discounted to contractors heavily 20 to 25 bucks a yard. Has far as slope, atleast 2 inches per 10 feet but really for winter it just can't get to steep.

[Rich Heaton]

Mountain dogs,,,, feel free to pm me with your phone number I can tell ya everything you will ever want to know about concrete,,,,, if ya have an extra 2 minutes. Slump will have nothing to do with the price of concrete. Min yards is whatever up to the redi mix company. The big savings is trying to get the contractors discount, concrete is one of the items that is usually discounted to contractors heavily 20 to 25 bucks a yard. Has far as slope, atleast 2 inches per 10 feet but really for winter it just can't get to steep.

[mountaindogs]

Well about 3 months ago had a nice 20 x 40 slab poured and it was very nice looking. Easy to clean, dogs were staying much cleaner. Some kennel sores starting on the older dogs so I'll have to watch that
BUT NOW !!!!!!!

It's chipping!! Flaking right off after the last big freeze it just started flaking like crazy!
Makes me sick to think about.

Does this sound like a poorly mixed concrete issue? grrrrrrr

[Hookadooka BirdDogs]

If you happen to be a military veteran you can visit or call your nearest VA office and get a Veterans ID card which places like Home Depot, Lowe's, etc. will give a 10 % discount on all purchases. Sure helps on Kennel fencing, Concrete, gravel etc. God Bless Our Troops. Ooorah!

In the past I made a concrete run that sloped 17 inches to a mounded concrete edge that curved from the 3 runs to a 4" drain with solid pipe. I had a hole backhoed to fit an old 250 gallon used oil tank. I cut a 4 inch hole at each end. On the entrance pipe I put a trap to keep odors out and on the exit I ran 100' feet (overkill) of buried perforated 4" plastic drain pipe covered top and bottom with crusher run. I used to put in enzymes once a month to eat the poop. Never had any problems. Easy to clean and the rain would wash most down the drain. A DIY sewage plant. Never shoveled poop ever. My doghouses and a small 6' run were on the inside of my barn for the 3 runs. The dogs always did their business outside.

[prairiefirepointers]

$3000 for concrete!!!!! I'm in the wrong business. Here in Kansas that is about $500 in materials (concrete and wire). Wish I could help with the other products, but don't have experience. Could you do the labor on the concrete slab and save some bucks? A few 2x6 for forms and a bull float would be a cheap investment for a Do It Yourself project and save over $2000.

Nitrex

Yikes! No doubt. I'm doing an area about half that size. Lucky for me, my buddy has a concrete business on the side and said we could "horse trade" the work out. I buy the materials, he does the labor and pours it, and I sell him a new TT G3 Upland 2 dog unit for cost. That's a win / win deal.

Hopefully you can call in some favors to help you out. $3000 is steep!

[JimJackson]

I deal with concrete every day, it generally is about $200.00 to $250.00 a yard, installed, but it depends on what you are putting the concrete on. If the ground has a lot of clay or heavy silt it will need to be stabilized with either a 6” of stone or sand. If the ground needs to be leveled you will pay more also.

You may want to look at a drainage system, it helps a lot in the clean up, that may also cost thousands, depends on the ground, if it will perk or not.

Jimmy

[DougB]

This may be an option: http://www.cement.org/basics/concreteproducts_soil.asp
Concrete is dry mixed into soil with a tiller, smoothed, moisture added, allowed to dry. I read about it years ago in Mechanics Illustrated I think.

[cjuve]

Well about 3 months ago had a nice 20 x 40 slab poured and it was very nice looking. Easy to clean, dogs were staying much cleaner. Some kennel sores starting on the older dogs so I'll have to watch that
BUT NOW !!!!!!!

It's chipping!! Flaking right off after the last big freeze it just started flaking like crazy!
Makes me sick to think about.

Does this sound like a poorly mixed concrete issue? grrrrrrr

Sounds like air to me.... Air entrainment is for freeze thaw resistance it could also be an issue with ASR's

[cjuve]

This may be an option: http://www.cement.org/basics/concreteproducts_soil.asp
Concrete is dry mixed into soil with a tiller, smoothed, moisture added, allowed to dry. I read about it years ago in Mechanics Illustrated I think.

In order to get a quality product this process take fairly specialized equipment to be able to get the water/cement ratio correct

[nitrex]

Well about 3 months ago had a nice 20 x 40 slab poured and it was very nice looking. Easy to clean, dogs were staying much cleaner. Some kennel sores starting on the older dogs so I'll have to watch that
BUT NOW !!!!!!!

It's chipping!! Flaking right off after the last big freeze it just started flaking like crazy!
Makes me sick to think about.

Does this sound like a poorly mixed concrete issue? grrrrrrr

Not sure what's going on, but it may be worth a call to the installing contractor and ask what he will or will not do to help fix the problem.

Nitrex

[mountaindogs]

Nitrex,
You had better bet I will!! Just giving myself some chill time, so I can be nice.

I studied up on air entrainment and that sounds likely. Which would mean that it was that mixing company's issue.

[nitrex]

It could also be that the finish guys worked up too much "cream" and now it i chipping off. If that's the case...the contractor is responsible.

Good Luck!!!

Nitrex

[Onk]

http://www.k9kennelstore.com/documents/113.html This is what I am doing. I am building a platform that is on skids out of treated lumber and using the above links kennel and flooring system over the treated lumber. For what I am saving on concrete I can use the above links kennels that are very nice but a little higher than the chain link ones you get. My dog will only be in the kennel when we are not home and the whole set up can be moved. Should also say the kennel is going to be lagged down to the platform.

[lvrgsp]

Did you seal it or put any treatment on it? What are you using to clean it? those may or may not be some factors in it, can you post some pics of it?