Start Me Off on The Right Foot

[lefthand]

Ok, I'm sure this is probably about the millionth post on this forum that pertains to this topic. I searched but didn't really find the answers the answers I wanted.

Here's my situation; I've been quail hunting over the last three years and enjoy it tremendously. I've done field lines and hunts with bird dogs. I enjoy the hunts with dogs significantly more than those without dogs. I'm sure most here would agree that there's just something about watching a dog lock up on point that makes the hair on the back of your neck stand on end.

All that being said, I've decided that I want my next dog to be a hunting dog. That's where ya'll come in; I've been reading these forums, magazines and books on the subject and i "think" I know which breed of dog would best suit my particular situation(if I should even own one at all). However, I would like some input from those on this forum who have more experience and can hopefully start me off on the right foot. Below is a rundown of what I believe are the key points for consideration in my decision.

Experience - Complete Novice (Have always had dogs but never owned a hunting or working breed) I would very much like to have a lot of input into my dogs training but will undoubtedly need the help of a professional to get the most out of my dog and for the dog to get the most out of me.

Location - Just moved to South MS on the Gulf of Mexico. It's very hot here in the summer, miserably hot. Our house is on a very small lot and I would estimate that I have less than 1/8 acre of fenced yard. There are some green fields in our neighborhood but outside of that I've not observed much by the way of open fields in this area. Most of the ground around here is either marsh or timberland. Not saying it doesn't exist around here, it's just not the norm in my observation. Also, I've done some searches and haven't been able to find any breeders or trainers in my general vicinity to which I could talk with about my situation.

Huntng - Quails almost exclusively; as far as I can tell from reading the MDFW there's not much wild quail habitat in the state and even less in South MS. That would require me to do most of my hunting on released birds on paid hunts or travelng into locations with wild birds. Because this is cost prohibitive, I would say that I'll be on birds at the most once a month during the season.

Miscellaneous - The dog I choose will be a family dog that I will want to hunt with during the season. It will live in the house and will be able to come along and spend it's day with me in the job site trailer (most of the time). It also has to be generally tolerant of small children and small dogs (which I realize has a lot to do with socialization and training).

Based upon the above, maybe owning a hunting breed is not in my or the dog's best interest. If you think so, please tell me. It would disappoint me greatly but better to know now than later. If not, what breed would you suggest given my circumstances which I outlined above.

Thanks in advance for the input and opinions,

Lance

[ezzy333]

Your living conditions are not a reason to not havee a hunting dog if that is what you want. Most sporting breed dogs are higher energy dogs than little pets as are most terriers and working dog breeds. Toy lap dogs have been bred to make quiet little lap dogs, but the higher energy dogs can do that well also as long as you give them plenty of exercise whenever possible. I think your situation kind of calls for a smaller dog and the Britt or the Vizsla come to mine first. The difference there is the coat and with the Vizsla having a very short coat I would think they might be a good match for what you are looking for.

Ezzy

[BrittGSP818]

I was thinking Shorthair when I began reading your post but with a small yard and most of his time being spent indoors, might be a bit more difficult. This is not to say you cant have one indoors, im sure there are many guys that do, but you would have to make sure he recieves plenty of excercise. I would even look at the Braque du Boirdumiass? im sure I spelled that wrong but I have heard they are very calm and relaxed at home, great with children, short coats, and are smaller too. Whatever breed you decide to go with make sure you ask the breeder to help you choose the pup that seems abit more layed back.

Good luck in finding your next best friend. Once you get a birddog, you will never go back!

George

[Birddogz]

English pointer. They are very heat resistant, and if you are hunting quail there simply is no better dog in my opinion. I bet you will hunt more once you start. I'll bet there are woodcock around those swamps in winter. Take some trips to Texas as well.

[Tall Boy]

It's important to run/exercise your dog a lot, preferably free as much of the time as possible. Baseball, soccer, and football fields work great because you can shut the gates and not have to worry about the 4-laner a 1/4 mile away. Daily yard work will also help keep your dog saine, especially in the summer when it's hot to even walk out side ( I live in Pensacola, Fl and train on a plantation just outside of Robertsdale, AL so trust me I know about the heat) let alone get any good exercise.

Any breed has it's extremes, some brittnay's are super high energy, and some EP's and GSP's can make amazing laid-back house dogs. If I was you, I would buy a started dog for two reasons.
1. The early stages of a gundog's life need to be spent in the woods laying foundation for quartering, bird sense, drive, and desire. If you can't allocate the time, your dog will suffer because of it.
2. A very high maintenance dog will drive you crazy, buying a started dog will allow you to ask the trainer how the dog acts. He can tell you if it goes crazy if it doesn't get out right away, or if it runs around the yard non stop for hours....you don't want that (I WANT that tho )

A brittnay would be great, I have two and they do fine this time of year as long as they're in shape and get a summer cut. I also have two EP's that would of made awesome house dogs, very calm and laid back as well as devoted, but you can't have them! Now I also have several EP's that would go bonkers if they couldn't put a couple miles behind them everyday, or dig a 6' hole just for the fun of it, and a GSP that makes them look calm.

Good luck, and welcome to the addiction that is gundog training!

[mrcreole]

In the past I've owned EP's, Setters, Weims, and GSPs, From what you describe I'm thinking Britt or GSP. Currently we have two GSP's that live in the house. They are great but have to have their afternoon runs. I live in a rural area and take them out on "hunts" on planted and wild birds daily. I lean toward the Britt because they do it all. The one's I have known were very quiet in the house and a little less excitable than the GSPs.

I live in south Louisiana and there are a few others of us that don't live too far from you. Take advantage of the woodcock. As our quail numbers in LA have dwindled the woodcock has become the bird of choice. I use my GSP's to retrieve ducks, geese, and dove as well as hunt upland birds and field trial. I've known a little 25 lb. Britt that would retrieve ducks all day. Don't despair, there are many types of game you and your new hunting buddy can chase.

Don't be afraid of a started dog but be cautious. Ask for a week or two to return the dog if it is not a good fit for you and your family. A started dog done right may be your best bet.

[tommyboy72]

Lance, you are right about not being many breeders down around your area or much quail hunting land but it isn't too unreasonably far to drive for quail hunting. I lived in Gautier which is about 20 miles from you on the other side of Ocean Springs for a few years. As hot as it gets down there I would definitely go with a shorter haired dog like an English Pointer or GSP. I personally prefer Pointers but if you get your dog from the right place you could probably get in some duck hunting with a GSP. I am a die hard Pointer guy and God forbid I do this but I would recommend a GSP for you just because you will probably have more luck with hunting waterfowl as well as quail if you choose to do so. The weather down there in the winter was usually in the 30's and occasionally got down in the 20's which shouldn't be too cold for a short haired dog Also if you check up around the Hattiesburg and farther east around the Columbus or Meridian and even up around the Batesville and Oxford areas you may find some decent quail hunting and Alabama isn't all that far either as far as hunting areas go. I also lived in Jackson and never found much good quail hunting around. Good luck with finding a breed of dog that fits you and good luck with finding some hunting areas.

[birddogger]

I can tell you that the GSP does not handle the heat very well, while the EP tolerates it much better, based on my experience with both breeds. I think a Brittany would do OK in the heat if you kept the hair trimmed and would make a good family pet/house dog if it came from good lines. Also, IMO it would be more versatile. As was mentioned in an earlier post, if quail is the only game you are going to hunt, you cannot beat the right EP.

As to whether or not you should own a dog, you are the only one who can answer that question. If you are ready to take on the responsibility and commitment, you can make it work.

Good luck with whatever you decide,
Charlie

[AzDoggin]

Dogs don't get to be hunters without the desire to hunt. Desire to hunt means desire to RUN, so agree with the folks above, if you want a hunting dog, and live on a small lot, you are committing to an active lifestyle. I'd say minimum 2 mile walks daily, good weather or bad, (once pup is mature), but even better alternating between off leash time (baseball field could work), bike rides, and runs.

Great question, and valid question, and wish more folks would ask. I had to rehome my first Britt, a trained hunter, at about 5 years of age after we moved (smaller yard), and had a baby. I did not do a good job of keeping up with my Britt's exercise needs, and it drove her nuts. The story ended well, but to this day, I regret having to give her up.

Your realistic assessment about hunting opportunities is very smart as well. The higher drive/energy breeds do need a job, and get unhappy without one. Basically, a few days a year, the dog will hunt, and the other 300 and some, it will be a family dog. The question "how are your dogs around the house?" is a valid one to ask breeders.

Based on your situation, I'd offer up one more alternative not mentioned yet: the French Brittany. Biddable, not quite the runner of the leggier Am. Britt, reputation for being an excellent family dog.

Like someone said above, the limitations you stated do not have to be a reason not to get a hunting dog. Just has to be part of the committment when you get one.

Good luck!!

[lefthand]

Your living conditions are not a reason to not havee a hunting dog if that is what you want. Most sporting breed dogs are higher energy dogs than little pets as are most terriers and working dog breeds. Toy lap dogs have been bred to make quiet little lap dogs, but the higher energy dogs can do that well also as long as you give them plenty of exercise whenever possible. I think your situation kind of calls for a smaller dog and the Britt or the Vizsla come to mine first. The difference there is the coat and with the Vizsla having a very short coat I would think they might be a good match for what you are looking for.

Ezzy

Thanks for the input; I've been strongly considering the Britt; heat tolerance is my only concern but I know there are hunter / breeders in the general geographic area. I haven't considered the Viszla all that much. The brief research I have done over the last day or two have brought it into my possible choices.

I was thinking Shorthair when I began reading your post but with a small yard and most of his time being spent indoors, might be a bit more difficult. This is not to say you cant have one indoors, im sure there are many guys that do, but you would have to make sure he recieves plenty of excercise. I would even look at the Braque du Boirdumiass? im sure I spelled that wrong but I have heard they are very calm and relaxed at home, great with children, short coats, and are smaller too. Whatever breed you decide to go with make sure you ask the breeder to help you choose the pup that seems abit more layed back.

Good luck in finding your next best friend. Once you get a birddog, you will never go back!

George

My uncle is friend's with a veterinarian / bird hunter in Middle Tennessee and he's encouraged me strongly to consider a GSP. It has definiely been in my top three choices since the beginning. The few I've known seem to fit my bill; however, those few dogs were worked like a rented mule so not much energy left at the end of the day to be destructive or otherwise. I've been told they can be hard-headed but are people dogs. Lots of people have suggested that due to my proximity to waterfowl habitat that the GSP could "go both ways" and I wouldn't have to worry as much about a bored / destructive dog.

I researched the French breed you suggested ( I wouldn't dare make an attempt at spelling it); I wasn't all that captivated by that particular breed but the Braque Francais definitely has my attention. I'm not a breeder nor do I have any experience but considering their relative small numbers I would guess that it would be a responsible owner's duty to further the breed on one with such small numbers. I'm not opposed to it necessarily, just loking for some input on those who have some of the less prevalent breeds.

English pointer. They are very heat resistant, and if you are hunting quail there simply is no better dog in my opinion. I bet you will hunt more once you start. I'll bet there are woodcock around those swamps in winter. Take some trips to Texas as well.

Everything I've read has lead me to believe that while they are great dogs, they are not the ones that best suit my particular set of requirements.

It's important to run/exercise your dog a lot, preferably free as much of the time as possible. Baseball, soccer, and football fields work great because you can shut the gates and not have to worry about the 4-laner a 1/4 mile away. Daily yard work will also help keep your dog saine, especially in the summer when it's hot to even walk out side ( I live in Pensacola, Fl and train on a plantation just outside of Robertsdale, AL so trust me I know about the heat) let alone get any good exercise.

Any breed has it's extremes, some brittnay's are super high energy, and some EP's and GSP's can make amazing laid-back house dogs. If I was you, I would buy a started dog for two reasons.
1. The early stages of a gundog's life need to be spent in the woods laying foundation for quartering, bird sense, drive, and desire. If you can't allocate the time, your dog will suffer because of it.
2. A very high maintenance dog will drive you crazy, buying a started dog will allow you to ask the trainer how the dog acts. He can tell you if it goes crazy if it doesn't get out right away, or if it runs around the yard non stop for hours....you don't want that (I WANT that tho )

A brittnay would be great, I have two and they do fine this time of year as long as they're in shape and get a summer cut. I also have two EP's that would of made awesome house dogs, very calm and laid back as well as devoted, but you can't have them! Now I also have several EP's that would go bonkers if they couldn't put a couple miles behind them everyday, or dig a 6' hole just for the fun of it, and a GSP that makes them look calm.

Good luck, and welcome to the addiction that is gundog training!

Some good info here, thanks.

Runnng / cycling the dogs daily isn't much of an issue for me. I already run a fair distance everyday for personal benefit and bringing a dog along that could tolerate it would be an added benefit. Our neighborhood also has a school and multi-sports plex within it's boundaries, which is something I hadn't thought of before as an additional outlet for exercising / training grounds.

I like the idea of buying a started dog; it will help me make up some ground on the shortcomings from my complete lack of training.

It's encouraging to me that you have working Britt's in this part of the world as they have consistently been my top choice. I've been a little concerned that with their longish coat that they may be a good choice for this climate.

In the past I've owned EP's, Setters, Weims, and GSPs, From what you describe I'm thinking Britt or GSP. Currently we have two GSP's that live in the house. They are great but have to have their afternoon runs. I live in a rural area and take them out on "hunts" on planted and wild birds daily. I lean toward the Britt because they do it all. The one's I have known were very quiet in the house and a little less excitable than the GSPs.

I live in south Louisiana and there are a few others of us that don't live too far from you. Take advantage of the woodcock. As our quail numbers in LA have dwindled the woodcock has become the bird of choice. I use my GSP's to retrieve ducks, geese, and dove as well as hunt upland birds and field trial. I've known a little 25 lb. Britt that would retrieve ducks all day. Don't despair, there are many types of game you and your new hunting buddy can chase.

Don't be afraid of a started dog but be cautious. Ask for a week or two to return the dog if it is not a good fit for you and your family. A started dog done right may be your best bet.

You bring up a few things that I have more questions about, primarily about letting the dog "hunt" on planted birds. I realize that it takes birds to have bird dogs but how often do they need to be exposed to continue their drive. My living location doesn't exactly permit that kind of daily exposure so will I be setting my self up for disappoint if I can't / don't get this exposure?

I wasn't aware that woodcock were prevalent in this part of the world. Until I started reading some of the web sites / magazines about bird hunting, I had never even heard of this type of bird. Can they be found on wild life management habitats or are they also a plantation type bird?

Lance, you are right about not being many breeders down around your area or much quail hunting land but it isn't too unreasonably far to drive for quail hunting. I lived in Gautier which is about 20 miles from you on the other side of Ocean Springs for a few years. As hot as it gets down there I would definitely go with a shorter haired dog like an English Pointer or GSP. I personally prefer Pointers but if you get your dog from the right place you could probably get in some duck hunting with a GSP. I am a die hard Pointer guy and God forbid I do this but I would recommend a GSP for you just because you will probably have more luck with hunting waterfowl as well as quail if you choose to do so. The weather down there in the winter was usually in the 30's and occasionally got down in the 20's which shouldn't be too cold for a short haired dog Also if you check up around the Hattiesburg and farther east around the Columbus or Meridian and even up around the Batesville and Oxford areas you may find some decent quail hunting and Alabama isn't all that far either as far as hunting areas go. I also lived in Jackson and never found much good quail hunting around. Good luck with finding a breed of dog that fits you and good luck with finding some hunting areas.

Lots of people have suggested the GSP for it's waterfowl advantages both here and "offline". I don't like following the crowd, so if I were to get into duck / goose hunting it would make me smile to bring a breed other than lab.

As for the EP's, growing up in Southern Middle Tennessee, EP's mean bird dog and vice versa (at least around the people that I know). I think they are beautiful dogs but I've just got it in my head that they aren't the right breed for my needs.

I got started on quail hunting up in North MS around Starkville, West Point and outside of Memphis when I lived up in Tupelo. I don't have an issue with hopping in my truck and hitting some of the spots up there, it's just that almost all quail habitat in MS that I'm aware of is "plantation" style hunting. The biggest problem with that in my perspective is that it becomes a very expensive proposition in lieu of hunting wild birds on public lands.

I can tell you that the GSP does not handle the heat very well, while the EP tolerates it much better, based on my experience with both breeds. I think a Brittany would do OK in the heat if you kept the hair trimmed and would make a good family pet/house dog if it came from good lines. Also, IMO it would be more versatile. As was mentioned in an earlier post, if quail is the only game you are going to hunt, you cannot beat the right EP.

As to whether or not you should own a dog, you are the only one who can answer that question. If you are ready to take on the responsibility and commitment, you can make it work.

Good luck with whatever you decide,
Charlie

Thanks Charlie. It's suprising for me to hear that the GSP doesn't handle the heat well. I haven't come across many people this far south with any bird dogs much less a GSP; so I have no one to bounce the ability of one breeds ability to handle the heat versus another. You've given me something else to consider and for that I thank you.

As far as the commitment, I certainly believe that I am ready. I'm not going into this blindly and have been considering this for the past 7 months since my dog passed. I'm determined to not jump into this and get the right dog for me and I won't rush it. I've waited this long, I can tough it out until I find exactly for what I'm looking .

Dogs don't get to be hunters without the desire to hunt. Desire to hunt means desire to RUN, so agree with the folks above, if you want a hunting dog, and live on a small lot, you are committing to an active lifestyle. I'd say minimum 2 mile walks daily, good weather or bad, (once pup is mature), but even better alternating between off leash time (baseball field could work), bike rides, and runs.

Great question, and valid question, and wish more folks would ask. I had to rehome my first Britt, a trained hunter, at about 5 years of age after we moved (smaller yard), and had a baby. I did not do a good job of keeping up with my Britt's exercise needs, and it drove her nuts. The story ended well, but to this day, I regret having to give her up.

Your realistic assessment about hunting opportunities is very smart as well. The higher drive/energy breeds do need a job, and get unhappy without one. Basically, a few days a year, the dog will hunt, and the other 300 and some, it will be a family dog. The question "how are your dogs around the house?" is a valid one to ask breeders.

Based on your situation, I'd offer up one more alternative not mentioned yet: the French Brittany. Biddable, not quite the runner of the leggier Am. Britt, reputation for being an excellent family dog.

Like someone said above, the limitations you stated do not have to be a reason not to get a hunting dog. Just has to be part of the committment when you get one.

Good luck!!

Well, I certainly appreciate your comments. As mentioned above, I'm not rushing into this and while I feel that I can apply the necessary commitment I will sit quietly on the sidelines watching the rest of you have your fun. I appreciate the suggestion of the French Britt, until I started researching this prospect I was not aware that there were an American and French version. I'll keep them in mind when it comes down to making my final decision.

All -

Thanks for giving me more to think about and consider before making my final decision. Prior to this post, I had narrowed it down to the 1) Britt 2) ES (which got zero mentions here and I'm curious to know why) 3) GSP. So it seems that I'm at least on the right track although these Braque Francais have me intrigued, short hair like an EP or GSP but more along the size of a Britt. I would like to hear from more of you on the trials and tribulations of owning a less prevalent breed or, even better, if anyone has experience with this breed.

Thanks again,

Lance

[Greg Jennings]

GSPs will handle the heat OK. Lots of GSPs in AZ, FL, TX, etc. Maybe the average GSP won't handle it as well as the average Pointer.

I'd be looking for a line of dogs that would suit my needs versus a breed. I'd also be looking for a breeder that could provide help.

FWIW, Greg J.

[mrcreole]

I am very impressed with the amount of thought you are putting into this. I believe that some dog will be lucky to have you. I will try to answer the questions you asked from my earlier post. Others may disagree but I feel that when working with a pup the more bird expsure the better. 5-7 days a week when developing the pup. If you get a well started dog daily bird exposure is not necessary. Daily work is. Get into birds 2-3 days a week. The other days work on obedience, retrieving, whoa, wing on string and so on. Those things don't require live birds and can be done at home or at a park.

Woodcock are a hoot. Those little buggers have a near vertical flush and do this little hover thing then blast off. Very fun to hunt and challenging sport as well in the cover they prefer. I have owned gsp's down in south Louisiana since I was a teenager. I haven't seen any probs in gsp's and heat. The avg. ep will outlast the avg gsp but I definitely would not say that gsp's have trouble with heat. I however have seen many overweight dogs of all breeds have trouble in the heat.

[birddogger]

GSPs will handle the heat OK. Lots of GSPs in AZ, FL, TX, etc. Maybe the average GSP won't handle it as well as the average Pointer.

I'd be looking for a line of dogs that would suit my needs versus a breed. I'd also be looking for a breeder that could provide help.

FWIW, Greg J.

I used the wrong wording in my post about the GSP and the heat. I should have said they don't tolerate heat as well as the EP. My GSP's do OK in the heat as long as they can get into water from time to time, But the EP's that I have experience with handle it a little better.

Charlie

[mrcreole]

GSPs will handle the heat OK. Lots of GSPs in AZ, FL, TX, etc. Maybe the average GSP won't handle it as well as the average Pointer.

I'd be looking for a line of dogs that would suit my needs versus a breed. I'd also be looking for a breeder that could provide help.

FWIW, Greg J.

I used the wrong wording in my post about the GSP and the heat. I should have said they don't tolerate heat as well as the EP. My GSP's do OK in the heat as long as they can get into water from time to time, But the EP's that I have experience with handle it a little better.

Charlie

Just a funny note. You mention the GSP taking a dip. My 3 year old bitch dives straight into the pool when we get home from a hunt or work out.

[bwjohn]

Being a novice myself, I have a suggestion for you.

if you do buy a young dog, buy one from a breeder as close as possible to you or find a local trainer that will take you under his wing some what. Or at least teach some of the basics. I have spent some time with several trainers and it has been invaluable to me.

if you buy a started dog, be clear on what is capable of doing and not so you know what to work on.

I think any short hair breed will fit your needs, don't know if the braque will fit your needs as far as covering ground. Just an observation from limited experience.


brandon

[birddogger]

Just a funny note. You mention the GSP taking a dip. My 3 year old bitch dives straight into the pool when we get home from a hunt or work out.

I would like to add that the humidity where I live and run dogs in the summer is probably what affects my dogs more so than the temp.

Charlie

[tommyboy72]

Lance I also have an English Setter who is about 9 years old and while living up in Batesville in northern MS I owned a hunting Irish Setter. With the long hair neither of them do or did very well in the heat. The heat has been hovering between 105 and 102 where I live for the past couple of weeks and my setter is miserable. I shave her down but she is still just not real heat tolerable and where I live the 105 temps. we get are not near as miserable as the 95 and above temps. you get down on the coast. This is probably why the setter was not mentioned. Good luck with your search for a breed.

[jimbo&rooster]

Ok.... well I guess Ill be that guy . I gather from your original post and the dogs that you have mentioned that you are looking to get a pointing breed, but, with the lack of birds in your area and the probability that most of your hunting will be done on game preserve birds, might I suggest a couple of flushing breeds? I would suggest the lab but youve already made a comment about not wanting to show up in the marsh with the same dog as everyone else......, but for your living situation, i would suggest maybe a field bred cocker, a boykin, or possibly a springer. these are all fairly small dogs which are more than capable of hunting and flushing woodcock as well as doing a sufficient job of busting released preserve quail, phez or chuckar. Im not sure about the cocker for waterfowl but the boykin or springer should be more than capable of being acceptable retrievers in the marsh. not trying to stir the pot or contridict anyone just throwing out an idea.
Ive got a lab and a GSP and live in a small house with a fairly small yard, and they do fine as long as I run them 3-4 days a week on my inlaws farm but if they dont get out they tend to drive me crazy, owning a gundog in less than ideal living situations is doable if you are willing to give them the propper exercise which is really the determineing factor in my opinion for living with any sporting breed.
with the amount of effort you have put into finding the right dog i am confident that any dog you get will be in good hands.
Jim

[Iowa]

I will only comment on the two breeds I've had over the years. GSP's and Vizslas. I'm in a similar situation here in MO. I have a smaller house and small yard. But I do a lot of work at the public parks, in the street (live on a circle) buddies land etc. I dont even want to go back to a GSP after having V's in the house. My GSP had more drive in the fields but were a pain in the house. Now this may be different for everyone but just my experience. My V's are just a better all around dog (dont blast me GSP guys!:). I hunt 3 - 4 times a year on wild birds and the rest on game farms.

Its sounds like you know what your getting into but I will say this. ANY of these breed you decide on will take a lot of work. I've started looking at dock dogs just as an off season job for my dogs. They seem to almost take over your life with training, running them, etc. I've had Rotts in the past and just lost my last one last year. If I was tired and came home she didnt care, just wanted to sit on the couch and get love. My V's have to get taken out and run etc. Dont get me wrong its worth the work but it is a lot of work. Even more work when you live in a subdivision etc. I went from living on 500 acres to .25 so I know how much harder it is in a small area.

[AzDoggin]

Its sounds like you know what your getting into but I will say this. ANY of these breed you decide on will take a lot of work. I've started looking at dock dogs just as an off season job for my dogs. They seem to almost take over your life with training, running them, etc. I've had Rotts in the past and just lost my last one last year. If I was tired and came home she didnt care, just wanted to sit on the couch and get love. My V's have to get taken out and run etc. Dont get me wrong its worth the work but it is a lot of work.

I think it's great to look into off-season activities too. Dock jumping sounds great. Bikejoring can be a blast if the weather will allow it (dog in harness pulls you on a bike). Since we have several elk herds up north and some big mulies, I'm going to train my next dog to find antler sheds as well. Just good to get outside and stay active - and if that's what you want - a hunting dog will "help" you. In fact, one of the reasons I'm getting a pup next spring is that I'll be retiring from career #1, have some time on my hands, and want to stay active.

[lefthand]

Ok.... well I guess Ill be that guy . I gather from your original post and the dogs that you have mentioned that you are looking to get a pointing breed, but, with the lack of birds in your area and the probability that most of your hunting will be done on game preserve birds, might I suggest a couple of flushing breeds? I would suggest the lab but youve already made a comment about not wanting to show up in the marsh with the same dog as everyone else......, but for your living situation, i would suggest maybe a field bred cocker, a boykin, or possibly a springer. these are all fairly small dogs which are more than capable of hunting and flushing woodcock as well as doing a sufficient job of busting released preserve quail, phez or chuckar. Im not sure about the cocker for waterfowl but the boykin or springer should be more than capable of being acceptable retrievers in the marsh. not trying to stir the pot or contridict anyone just throwing out an idea.
Ive got a lab and a GSP and live in a small house with a fairly small yard, and they do fine as long as I run them 3-4 days a week on my inlaws farm but if they dont get out they tend to drive me crazy, owning a gundog in less than ideal living situations is doable if you are willing to give them the propper exercise which is really the determineing factor in my opinion for living with any sporting breed.
with the amount of effort you have put into finding the right dog i am confident that any dog you get will be in good hands.
Jim

Actually the consideration of a flusher is not out of the question. I just haven't had the opportunity to see any of the typical flushing breeds who were hunters (all were pets). I would certainly like to hear from any of those who own hunting flusher breeds.

Also, since I'm a novice in the sport in general what's the general etiquette for mixing flushing / pointing breeds on a hunt? My assumption would be that a flusher wouldn't be all that welcome with a group of flushers but a pointer would be welcomed with a group of flushers.

More input is welcomed and appreciated.

[jimbo&rooster]

Ok.... well I guess Ill be that guy . I gather from your original post and the dogs that you have mentioned that you are looking to get a pointing breed, but, with the lack of birds in your area and the probability that most of your hunting will be done on game preserve birds, might I suggest a couple of flushing breeds? I would suggest the lab but youve already made a comment about not wanting to show up in the marsh with the same dog as everyone else......, but for your living situation, i would suggest maybe a field bred cocker, a boykin, or possibly a springer. these are all fairly small dogs which are more than capable of hunting and flushing woodcock as well as doing a sufficient job of busting released preserve quail, phez or chuckar. Im not sure about the cocker for waterfowl but the boykin or springer should be more than capable of being acceptable retrievers in the marsh. not trying to stir the pot or contridict anyone just throwing out an idea.
Ive got a lab and a GSP and live in a small house with a fairly small yard, and they do fine as long as I run them 3-4 days a week on my inlaws farm but if they dont get out they tend to drive me crazy, owning a gundog in less than ideal living situations is doable if you are willing to give them the propper exercise which is really the determineing factor in my opinion for living with any sporting breed.
with the amount of effort you have put into finding the right dog i am confident that any dog you get will be in good hands.
Jim

Actually the consideration of a flusher is not out of the question. I just haven't had the opportunity to see any of the typical flushing breeds who were hunters (all were pets). I would certainly like to hear from any of those who own hunting flusher breeds.

Also, since I'm a novice in the sport in general what's the general etiquette for mixing flushing / pointing breeds on a hunt? My assumption would be that a flusher wouldn't be all that welcome with a group of flushers but a pointer would be welcomed with a group of flushers.

More input is welcomed and appreciated.

On farm raised birds which have a ten dency to run rather than fly it has been my personal experience that when I go to the local preserves that I generally have a better day in the field with my flusher than most of the guys running the average pointing dogs, however the situation tends to be reversed when it comes to wild bird hunting though I have had success hunting my lab on wild quail.
as far as hunting ettiquet goes for running flushers and pointers goes it depends on the people you go with and on the manners and training of your flusher. no one is going to have a good day if a flusing dog is rolling in and busting birds that someone elses dog has pointed, but the advantage to having a flusing breed along is that more often than not you can always produce big flushes, and you will always have an excited retriever.
Jim

[AzDoggin]

depends on the people you go with and on the manners and training of your flusher. no one is going to have a good day if a flusing dog is rolling in and busting birds that someone elses dog has pointed, but the advantage to having a flusing breed along is that more often than not you can always produce big flushes, and you will always have an excited retriever.
Jim

Jim, out of curiousity - how do you train the flusher to work with pointers. Does he "honor" a point by staying back, or maybe just well enough recall trained that you can call him in to heel when a dog is on point? I think it would be a blast to see both at work at the same time.

[RayGubernat]

Lance -

You are not probably not too far from some of the best professional advice you could ask for.

Lou Gleber is in Loranger LA, about 30 miles from the MS line and about 10-15 miles north of the western edge of Lake Ponchartrain.

Lou has been there and did that from walking gun dogs, including GSP's, all the way up to running dogs in the National Championship at Ames. I met him once at Ames. He is a straight up guy who will help you if he can and tell it to you plain. He might even remember me, but it has been quite a few years.

I do not believe he has been going to the praries in recent years so he is probably home In LA.

He advertises in the American Field but for convenience, here is his contact info:

Nujac Kennel
23042 Hwy 40
Loranger, LA 70446

(985) 878 - 8057
nujackennel@bellsouth

Incidentally, for what it is worth, I think you could not go too far wrong with a pointer from field lines. They have a lot of energy , especially as puppies and youngsters and will require a fenced yard, but then so will just about any decent bird dog. As long as you give the dog attention and exercise you should be fine. I raised my share of bird dogs in the suburbs. If I can do it, so can anyone.

RayG

[jimbo&rooster]

[quote
Jim, out of curiousity - how do you train the flusher to work with pointers. Does he "honor" a point by staying back, or maybe just well enough recall trained that you can call him in to heel when a dog is on point? I think it would be a blast to see both at work at the same time.

Ironically enough my lab who would not retrieve a thing until after being FFd, took very naturally to upland hunting. In the beginning I would take her out occasionally on our own and just worked on her range and made sure that she would recall, but eventually me and a guy I know took her and his britt out one day and he kind of directed his brit out into the field and I kept my lab bustin brush in close and when his britt would point I would just heel my lab in and she would sit to flush and usually get the retrieve as my buddies britt is not a strong retriever. basically we either use this method or we will let his dog range out a bit and keep my lab in at about half his dogs range (once in a great while she'll bump a single his misses) and ill just heel her up and walk her in. Now though I have not had the chance to run her and my GSP she has taken to sitting when he is given the "whoa" command before I let them out of the kennel. and I have began to use whoa as a "hup" like command with her so maybe this season I can teach her to stand and honor. I will say that for poor flushing birds such as chuckar and quail at the local preserve we have let his britt point and sent my lab in to get decent flushes but try not to do it often, so as not to get his britt bumping birds. not sure if this is any help to ya.
Jim

[AzDoggin]

[quote
Jim, out of curiousity - how do you train the flusher to work with pointers. Does he "honor" a point by staying back, or maybe just well enough recall trained that you can call him in to heel when a dog is on point? I think it would be a blast to see both at work at the same time.

Ironically enough my lab who would not retrieve a thing until after being FFd, took very naturally to upland hunting. In the beginning I would take her out occasionally on our own and just worked on her range and made sure that she would recall, but eventually me and a guy I know took her and his britt out one day and he kind of directed his brit out into the field and I kept my lab bustin brush in close and when his britt would point I would just heel my lab in and she would sit to flush and usually get the retrieve as my buddies britt is not a strong retriever. basically we either use this method or we will let his dog range out a bit and keep my lab in at about half his dogs range (once in a great while she'll bump a single his misses) and ill just heel her up and walk her in. Now though I have not had the chance to run her and my GSP she has taken to sitting when he is given the "whoa" command before I let them out of the kennel. and I have began to use whoa as a "hup" like command with her so maybe this season I can teach her to stand and honor. I will say that for poor flushing birds such as chuckar and quail at the local preserve we have let his britt point and sent my lab in to get decent flushes but try not to do it often, so as not to get his britt bumping birds. not sure if this is any help to ya.
Jim

That's pretty cool. Sounds like you guys are able to make it work. I guess I see what you mean about the lab flushing birds and influencing the pointer. I doubt you guys are the first to work a pointer and flusher/retreiver together though - I just think it would be pretty fun - and sounds like you have good control over the lab that makes it all work.

[jimbo&rooster]

[quote
Jim, out of curiousity - how do you train the flusher to work with pointers. Does he "honor" a point by staying back, or maybe just well enough recall trained that you can call him in to heel when a dog is on point? I think it would be a blast to see both at work at the same time.

Ironically enough my lab who would not retrieve a thing until after being FFd, took very naturally to upland hunting. In the beginning I would take her out occasionally on our own and just worked on her range and made sure that she would recall, but eventually me and a guy I know took her and his britt out one day and he kind of directed his brit out into the field and I kept my lab bustin brush in close and when his britt would point I would just heel my lab in and she would sit to flush and usually get the retrieve as my buddies britt is not a strong retriever. basically we either use this method or we will let his dog range out a bit and keep my lab in at about half his dogs range (once in a great while she'll bump a single his misses) and ill just heel her up and walk her in. Now though I have not had the chance to run her and my GSP she has taken to sitting when he is given the "whoa" command before I let them out of the kennel. and I have began to use whoa as a "hup" like command with her so maybe this season I can teach her to stand and honor. I will say that for poor flushing birds such as chuckar and quail at the local preserve we have let his britt point and sent my lab in to get decent flushes but try not to do it often, so as not to get his britt bumping birds. not sure if this is any help to ya.
Jim

That's pretty cool. Sounds like you guys are able to make it work. I guess I see what you mean about the lab flushing birds and influencing the pointer. I doubt you guys are the first to work a pointer and flusher/retreiver together though - I just think it would be pretty fun - and sounds like you have good control over the lab that makes it all work.

Yeah I really enjoy running my lab with the pointing dogs but you really have to stay on top of what the flusher is doing all the time to keep things running smoothly I'm not too good to admit that there are days the train comes off the tracks and she goes in the box to bat clean up......
Jim

[lefthand]

Lance -

You are not probably not too far from some of the best professional advice you could ask for.

Lou Gleber is in Loranger LA, about 30 miles from the MS line and about 10-15 miles north of the western edge of Lake Ponchartrain.

Lou has been there and did that from walking gun dogs, including GSP's, all the way up to running dogs in the National Championship at Ames. I met him once at Ames. He is a straight up guy who will help you if he can and tell it to you plain. He might even remember me, but it has been quite a few years.

I do not believe he has been going to the praries in recent years so he is probably home In LA.

He advertises in the American Field but for convenience, here is his contact info:

Nujac Kennel
23042 Hwy 40
Loranger, LA 70446

(985) 878 - 8057
nujackennel@bellsouth

Incidentally, for what it is worth, I think you could not go too far wrong with a pointer from field lines. They have a lot of energy , especially as puppies and youngsters and will require a fenced yard, but then so will just about any decent bird dog. As long as you give the dog attention and exercise you should be fine. I raised my share of bird dogs in the suburbs. If I can do it, so can anyone.

RayG

Thanks for the information and the encouragement. I really didn't think there was much more than waterfowlers in the area; it's nice to hear about this kennel and others that are so close.

[dbhowell23]

English Pointers are what you make of them. I keep mine in the house and can say beyond a shadow of a doubt she is the best house dog I have ever had. I don't know him but Colvin Davis is in Mitner, AL and might have a dog for you.

http://www.daviskennels.info/

If he didn't have a dog / puppy he could probably point you in a good direction. If nothing else it bet it would be a cool visit. Don't be scarred of field trial dogs....they are loving house pets too.

[lefthand]

I will only comment on the two breeds I've had over the years. GSP's and Vizslas. I'm in a similar situation here in MO. I have a smaller house and small yard. But I do a lot of work at the public parks, in the street (live on a circle) buddies land etc. I dont even want to go back to a GSP after having V's in the house. My GSP had more drive in the fields but were a pain in the house. Now this may be different for everyone but just my experience. My V's are just a better all around dog (dont blast me GSP guys!:). I hunt 3 - 4 times a year on wild birds and the rest on game farms.

Its sounds like you know what your getting into but I will say this. ANY of these breed you decide on will take a lot of work. I've started looking at dock dogs just as an off season job for my dogs. They seem to almost take over your life with training, running them, etc. I've had Rotts in the past and just lost my last one last year. If I was tired and came home she didnt care, just wanted to sit on the couch and get love. My V's have to get taken out and run etc. Dont get me wrong its worth the work but it is a lot of work. Even more work when you live in a subdivision etc. I went from living on 500 acres to .25 so I know how much harder it is in a small area.

I certainly HOPE I know what I'm getting myself into; only time well tell me that. I certainly hope the smaller area won't be too limiting on my efforts. It's the field work combined with the smaller yard area that worries me.

Thanks for the reply,

Lance

[lefthand]

On farm raised birds which have a ten dency to run rather than fly it has been my personal experience that when I go to the local preserves that I generally have a better day in the field with my flusher than most of the guys running the average pointing dogs, however the situation tends to be reversed when it comes to wild bird hunting though I have had success hunting my lab on wild quail.
as far as hunting ettiquet goes for running flushers and pointers goes it depends on the people you go with and on the manners and training of your flusher. no one is going to have a good day if a flusing dog is rolling in and busting birds that someone elses dog has pointed, but the advantage to having a flusing breed along is that more often than not you can always produce big flushes, and you will always have an excited retriever.
Jim

The prospect of wild quails on a regular basis is almost entirely unlikely, so a flushing breed MAY be more to my benefit. I'll keep doing my research and expand it to include flushers.

Thanks,

Lance