Horse Whisperer Video

[Angler02]

I read about a video by the trainer who was the Horse Whisperer. The author of the article said the same
psychology could apply to dog training. Has anyone heard about this video?

Thanks

Steve

[tn red]

http://www.montyroberts.com/ not sure it will work on a gundog but he is a interesting man

[Angler02]

thanks

[KwikIrish]

I read his books and attended one of his clinics in Denver when I was young (er) and it was quite fascinating. Though that clinic was about the starting phases, it would interest me to see *how people could and would apply it to dogs... do you have a link to the article?

[fuzznut]

I do use one of Mr Roberts methods on dogs. It's called joining up... the idea is to catch a horse that doesn't want to be caught you literally push him away from you until he asks to be brought back in, and therefore caught.

I run a small boarding facility and the dogs have a 1/2 acre fenced area to play in. Every now and then I'll get a dog that either just doesn't want to come in, or is freaky about getting caught. I'll go out and walk the dog down, don't look at him, don't talk to him, just follow him where ever he goes. Sometimes I'll force them to go away from me, (my idea, not theirs) and just keep pushing them. Push them till they are nearly exhausted. I'm waiting for that look in their eye, waiting for them to start to lick their lips and lower their heads. Then, and only then will I squat down with my back to them .... and darn if 99% of the time they don't come to me and ask to be brought back into the fold. Usually solves the problem for the rest of their stay.

It does make sense from a pack/herd animals point of view, I want to be a part of your pack, and I agree that you are the boss.
Monty Roberts led a fascinating life... it's a great read.
Fuzz

[daniel77]

As someone who has met and worked around Monty Roberts, I can tell you unequivocally that he is a fraud. I was also friends with the guy who did the actual rides on the colts at his shows. That guy didn't like Monty much either, and eventually quit. I'm not saying that his methods (and I use the term loosely, because the Dorrances and Ray Hunt far preceded this blowhard and go MUCH further in depth into a horse's head) won't work, but Roberts is a fraud and his methods barely scratch the surface of what is possible.
He gets several horses for his "performances", and his staff work them while he sits and watches. This all goes on hours before the "show". He then picks the one he wants, and re-works it for the crowd. He doesn't tell the crowd that this happens BTW, or at least not nearly to the extent that it happens. I'd liken Roberts much more to a con man, used car salesman or politician than an actual trainer.

BTW, Monty claimed the horse whisperer title and made a bunch of cash with it, but the book wasn't about him at all. It was actually written about Buck Brannaman , who is the real deal and leagues beyond Roberts (as the author has stated many times). Sorry if I come off as a jerk on this, and I don't really have a dog in this fight, but the Monty Roberts thing has always rubbed me the wrong way. I hate to see credit go where it isn't deserved. The man's own family has disowned him for crying out loud... BTW, I know him from a benefit for the La Tech Univ. therapeutic riding program, which sponsored and was to receive proceeds from Robert's event. Wanna guess who made more $$$$ from the event? And in his conversations after the event, the claims made by Roberts were impossible to believe. He claimed to have started out all kinds of equine stuff, from team penning to cutting.

Chasing the dogs away does work very well though. It is an attention getter for those who learn to ignore you.

[cody]

As someone who has met and worked around Monty Roberts, I can tell you unequivocally that he is a fraud. I was also friends with the guy who did the actual rides on the colts at his shows. That guy didn't like Monty much either, and eventually quit. I'm not saying that his methods (and I use the term loosely, because the Dorrances and Ray Hunt far preceded this blowhard and go MUCH further in depth into a horse's head) won't work, but Roberts is a fraud and his methods barely scratch the surface of what is possible.
He gets several horses for his "performances", and his staff work them while he sits and watches. This all goes on hours before the "show". He then picks the one he wants, and re-works it for the crowd. He doesn't tell the crowd that this happens BTW, or at least not nearly to the extent that it happens. I'd liken Roberts much more to a con man, used car salesman or politician than an actual trainer.

BTW, Monty claimed the horse whisperer title and made a bunch of cash with it, but the book wasn't about him at all. It was actually written about Buck Brannaman , who is the real deal and leagues beyond Roberts (as the author has stated many times). Sorry if I come off as a jerk on this, and I don't really have a dog in this fight, but the Monty Roberts thing has always rubbed me the wrong way. I hate to see credit go where it isn't deserved. The man's own family has disowned him for crying out loud... BTW, I know him from a benefit for the La Tech Univ. therapeutic riding program, which sponsored and was to receive proceeds from Robert's event. Wanna guess who made more $$$$ from the event? And in his conversations after the event, the claims made by Roberts were impossible to believe. He claimed to have started out all kinds of equine stuff, from team penning to cutting.

Chasing the dogs away does work very well though. It is an attention getter for those who learn to ignore you.

I couldn't agree more. I do not have the experience of working with him like you do, but I have seen a lot of his stuff and I always thought he was a joke. Remember the mustang he tamed? That's when I decided something wasn't right with him.
Dorrance, Hunt and Brannaman are the real deal. I think Dorrance was the godfather of it all and was truly gifted.

[kninebirddog]

Ray hunt Tom Dorrance John and Josh Lyons Richard Winters....

I do apply some of the basics of the pack and work through stuff in the smallest of steps to help a dog get through stuff which I learned from watching them at their symposiums/seminar and the tapes or the stories I was privy to when some local people who did get to spend time with them shared.

Pat Parelli though Richard winters apprenticed under him I am so glad he didn't gain Pats cockiness..I was truly saddened when I watched Pat poor display pushing a young horse to far in a video done for horse rescue

[tn red]

Pat Parelli though Richard winters apprenticed under him I am so glad he didn't gain Pats cockiness..I was truly saddened when I watched Pat poor display pushing a young horse to far in a video done for horse rescue

Are you talking about the Catwalk horse in England?
Daniel have you ever met Sam Powell he use to work for the guy that owned the saints years ago?

[Angler02]

Kwik Irish,

Sorry, don't have the article. After reading these posts I guess it's a mute point.

[daniel77]

I've not met Sam Powell, Sorry. I do/did know Craig Cameron, as I was very close friends with the people who organized his tour through our part of the country. Got to eat supper with him several times, and he is also the real deal, though less personable than some of the others (I don't mean that in a bad way, the more personable ones are generally the ones that I think less of). I was also very close friends (used to train at their barn) with the people who organized Ray Hunt coming over to our part of the country. I was scheduled to start one of their colts at his clinic and get to go to supper with him, but his health prevented him from making it. I dearly regret not getting to meet him.

I also sympathize with the comments about Parelli. It takes one helluva horse to carry that ego around, though I do think he's a good hand, he seems more interested in showing off than anything else. IMO anyway. I apologize for violating the "if you can't say anything nice" rule, but Monty Roberts really grates my nerves. I can't tell you how many customers have wanted to talk about him, thinking he's so great, and I can't stand the guy and have a difficult time hiding that fact. He's also one of the ones who throws the word "abuse" around a whole bunch. I've always wondered where the line is drawn for that. If I pat my dog on the head, Have I abused him? How about a little harder? Little harder?
Obviously there are those who abuse their animals, but some project the message that it is almost everyone who isn't doing things like they say they should be done. Monty is the posterboy for those kinda folks. I promise you that I can rough up a colt pretty darn good without really scaring him, and I can make another horse so scared that he'll jump out of a round pen trying to get away from me, without ever touching him.
I also used to work for Dr James McCall while in college (for just a few months, I saw through him rather quickly). He was a nat'l "expert" on stallions, as his PhD is in repro Physiology, and he also quickly claimed the title of "horse whisperer" when it got popular. Let me tell you that I've NEVER been around more dangerous studs than those owned and managed by this "Stallion Expert". All of them were bad and would hurt you. He also wrote a nat'l column, I think in the AQHA Journal and was putting together a training book at that time also. If it did come out, I'm pictured in it several times. I quit shortly after one of those episodes where he did some of the cruelest stuff I've ever seen done to a horse. My point, I guess, is that I pick bad people to get to know and work for LOL (that's why I'll only work for myself from now on), but just because someone is well known or talks a smooth game, doesn't mean that they are any darn good.
Sorry for the tangent. I'll quit typing now...

[fuzznut]

good stuff to know, but I have to tell ya, I'm bummed. Really enjoyed his book.
Oh well, live and learn.
But the push/pull of the dogs does work... use it all the time.
Maybe someone else came up with the idea first, but I heard it through Roberts book.
Thanks!
Fuzz

[daniel77]

good stuff to know, but I have to tell ya, I'm bummed. Really enjoyed his book.
Oh well, live and learn.
But the push/pull of the dogs does work... use it all the time.
Maybe someone else came up with the idea first, but I heard it through Roberts book.
Thanks!
Fuzz

Sorry. Didn't mean to bum you out. Nothing wrong with the message, just meant the messenger is flawed.

[kninebirddog]

Pat Parelli though Richard winters apprenticed under him I am so glad he didn't gain Pats cockiness..I was truly saddened when I watched Pat poor display pushing a young horse to far in a video done for horse rescue

Are you talking about the Catwalk horse in England?
Daniel have you ever met Sam Powell he use to work for the guy that owned the saints years ago?

http://www.inawhisper.com/ when it first came out the proceeds went to horse rescue all in all this is a very good watch

[KwikIrish]

Can't stand the Parelli's. They are horrible people, horrible methods, horrible equipment. That video of the colt in Englad was crazy. Flippin' morons, indeed.

But what a sad bit of news to learn about Monty. Good thing I'm not still a child, you might as well have told me there was no Santa. Dang, such is life.

[kninebirddog]

Actually pa yeas ago was prettyb decent...Richard WInters who apprenticed under him he went on to be more down to earth and left his ego at the corral gate when it came to the horses. At least that was years ago..

I went to John lyons symposium when Josh was still a cute little kid LOL I am amazed how he has carried on his dads foot steps and even improved them...What a blessing he was raised under...everything his dad learned was Joshs whole foundation to grow on