breeder recommendations

[proudag08]

Well for those of you that are active on this forum you know me as "that annoying newbie who asks a billion questions" and have been following my journey into the wonderful world of bird dogging! For those of you new or just browsing, a quick review:

I'm new to bird hunting and bird dogging. I am looking to get a pup in June of 2011. I have settled on a GSP as far as breed goes. This dog will hunt all types of birds, if I can get him/her on them (waterfowl, dove, quail, phez). I may try to do some hunt tests with it if I have the time. It is preferred that I can find a breeder that is also a trainer or vise versa, that can train me to train my dog. I will be living in the Ft. Worth, TX area come this summer.

What I dont know is if I want a male or female, what coloring i prefer (low priority) or what kennel I want to get it from.

So what I am asking for are recomendations of breeders and trainers in Texas or Oklahoma. I'm trying to get a list together to research. If you want to post them on this thread, great, if not then PM me. Please send me a link to their website or an email address where I can get in touch with them when the time comes. Thanks y'all!!!

have a great weekend!!!!

[AZ Brittany Guy]

Charlie Rose out of Seymor, TX. He has been breeding GSPs for many years. He is a outfitter, guide and field trial pro. He's good man who knows his dogs.

[Ricky Ticky Shorthairs]

I second Charlie Rose. He will put you with a pup that will do what you are looking for. He knows his lines very well.

[proudag08]

Thanks guys for responding with the PMs. Any other recomendations in the TX/ OK/ AR/ LA region that might be worth looking into?

Also, when I contact a breeder (most likely will be through email), what questions should I ask? What information should I include in my email?

[adogslife]

Ask for proof of waterfowl hunting and about calmness in the blind.
check into a DK or a DD.
http://www.nadkc.org/testing_ahnentafel.htm
http://www.vdd-gna.org/

[Birddogz]

Plus 1 on the DD/DK

[Coveyrise64]

Plus 1 on the DD/DK

So what can a DK do that my gsp's can't?

Coveyrise64

[proudag08]

Oh snap!!

[adogslife]

I don't know. What does your GSP do?
Is your GSP registered in a breed club where there are ability,conformation and temperment requirements required before being bred?
Are you a waterfowler?
The average DK/DD takes solms/hzp at 15 months old. Are you familiar with the requirements of these tests?

[adogslife]

I mentioned breeding requirements?

None of the organizations you mentioned will prevent you from breeding your dogs and we all know our dogs are great, because we said so.

[Birddogz]

Coveyrise64

Plus 1 on the DD/DK

So what can a DK do that my gsp's can't?

Coveyrise64

I'd like to hear the answer to this myself. IMO a DK has nothing over a NAVDHA bred GSP.[/quote]

Nothing, I just have found that European dogs are a little less independent, and more versatile as a whole. That being said, there are GSPs that are the same type of dog. Some GSPs are bred a little "hot" for my tastes, but heck there are versatile EPs as well. My comment was not an insult to the GSP, as much as an endorsement of the DD and DK. A NAVHDA bred GSP is the equal of a DD and DK. Sorry if I stuck my nose where it didn't belong. Wouldn't be the first time.

[adogslife]

A NAVHDA bred GSP is the equal of a DD and DK. Sorry if I stuck my nose where it didn't belong. Wouldn't be the first time.

Only to those who don't know the difference betwen the systems and the dogs. Several other misconceptions about the european breeds but I'm not jumping in any further.
A GSP can be a great versatile dog.

[mrcreole]

I live in Louisiana and do a lot of duck hunting. I use my older dog "Delta" frequently for waterfowl. Ducks and Geese. We mainly hunt rice fields and rarely does it get terribly cold. Delta's mother came from Rob Martin. He is big into NSTRA trials and is a great trainer who will work with you. He is close to you and breeds great dogs.....give him a call.

This is his website: www.germanbirddogs.com

[orbirdhunter]

Like others have said, get a NAVDHA GSP or a DK if your looking for a line with proven retrieving/waterfowl abilities....

[Coveyrise64]

A NAVHDA bred GSP is the equal of a DD and DK. Sorry if I stuck my nose where it didn't belong. Wouldn't be the first time.

Only to those who don't know the difference betwen the systems and the dogs. Several other misconceptions about the european breeds but I'm not jumping in any further.
A GSP can be a great versatile dog.

A Versatile Champion, a few UT-1's, and volunteer worker at three HZP tests. I might not be an authority but I think I know a little about the differences in the systems and dogs. What I don't understand is the VDD judging and breeding standards. A dog receiving a low number in the fur drag is offered an opportunity to run the track again to improve its score? The best DD I've seen in three yrs was a 14 month old that was severly dysplastic, the sire and dam are still in the breeding pool. Are these the rigid standards provided by a breed club?

Coveyrise64

[adogslife]

Volunteer but not participant.
these are natural ability breed tests, not finished dog tests. It would be poor judgment to allow a quality dog to fail and not be part of the gene pool based on a low score especially when the judges may have seen something special in the dog.
Severly dysplastic. Meaning you could notice the issue by observing the dog? It must have been a painful day for that young dog. Sorry to hear an owner thought the test was more important than the dog's comfort. This dog will never be allowed to breed in the system.
No one is saying there are no quality GSPs that can do the work the OP requires. The German system is set up so that nearly every dog can do the work the OP requires. These are foot hunting dogs with more than enough independence and cooperation to go around. Down fall is when they are compared to field trial dogs. If this is what is wanted then look in that direction. These are versatile dogs for versatile hunters.

[larue]

I have a question,in the navhda testing programs,ie drags,water work ect which is more important the pedigree of the dog,or the training the dog recieves?
I myself believe that the training is far more important than the breeding as far as navhda goes,as style is not judged,
there is very little independance needed,and the test is about obediance.
I also believe that most dogs will become great in water if exposed to water,and given the chance.
I once put a ut prize on a all age gsp,and the water was the best part of the test for her,she loves to swim.In fact at 15
years of age she still runs down to our pond to swim in the summer.
And that all age bitch would jump shoot ducks with me,when we would sneak up to our ponds,she would crouch down with me as we approached the pond.
I have no beef with navhda line bred dogs,but I also believe that the vast majority of dogs could do very well in a navhda test if given the training.

[Birddogz]

The dog has to have the hardware to do all of those tasks. Just like a lab competition. The ability to take commands and want to please is genetic, just like search. If drive is all it took, EPs would be winning retriever competitions, which they obviously don't.

[snips]

Our dogs do all of the above...Will be having a couple of litters next spring-summer. They compete, test, and we have plenty of NAVHDA offspring..... www.walnuthillgsps.us

[Greg Jennings]

This is not the place to rehash the DK/GSP debate. Cease and desist, please.

Greg J.

[Ruffshooter]

[quote="larue"]there is very little independance needed,

You are dead wrong on this one. The Duck search is 99% about independence and drive to not give up on a retrieve and to search for a wounded duck all on its own with no help from the handler. It is not about swimming or just staying out there for 10 minutes, it is about a purposefull search and expanded search of new areas if it does not find the duck. Yes there is some training but you can not train independence or prey drive. Same on the field work. Look at your score sheet.

[proudag08]

Wow, I was pumped when I logged in last time to see this thread with 2 pages of recomendations!

But when I started reading I realized most weren't recomendations... bummer. Any recomendations can just PM me from now on and leave this thread to the DK/DD vs GSP posts...

[markj]

You wont go wrong with a walnut hills dog. Have you browsed the for sale forum? Lots of great puppies there. Have you gone to any trials and or tests and watched the dogs? Then if you see something you really like you ask about any future plans to breed.

I saw that Fritz dog in Branched Oaks, he was a real nice dog, looked great and is sought after as a stud.

Most any well bred GSP will do well in any venue you run it in, specially the kids. Mine love the kids.

[adogslife]

NAVHDA does not require independence or search in water, a dog will get a 4 if they just swim.
The German system requires independence and search in water, the 2 systems are not equal. A good trainer can get just about any dog a UT I.
The German system is geared for adding to(and taking out of) the gene pool, NAVHDA is geared toward giving titles.

[Greg Jennings]

In case you didn't understand "Cease and desist":

cease/sēs/Verb1. Come to an end: "the hostilities had ceased and normal life was resumed"; "on his retirement the job will cease to exist".
2. Bring (a specified action) to an end: "they were asked to cease all military activity".

de·sist/diˈsist/Verb: Cease; abstain.

[proudag08]

+1,000 gpblitz

[adogslife]

Relax.
The post is discussing NAVHDA vs the German system. This is exactly the info a person needs when looking into a waterfowldog.
Anyone looking to take a field bred GSP and turn it into a waterfowl dog may have a rocky road ahead of them. Coat,weight,bone,temperment,desire for water. Not all dogs are willing to go into the cold water for a blind retrieve,say what you want, it's not happening for all dogs, FF'd or not. I, personally, want a dog with the natural drive for versatility, not a dog I have to train to be versatile.
Breeders are listed on the websites I posted. Several fine litters on the ground and upcoming.

[Ruffshooter]

[quote="adogslife"]NAVHDA does not require independence or search in water, a dog will get a 4 if they just swim. Can't NAVHDA natural ability is a 4 for just swimming. You obviously have not run a UT test or have not passed one or just don;t understand the test. :roll: :roll: :roll: What an Idd OH forget it. You just are :roll:

[Greg Jennings]

Jesus, Mary and Joseph! This thread is about breeder recommendations for a new dog owner in Texas. If people can't follow direction and stop the NAVHDA vs DKV crap, I am going to get medieval.

If anyone wants to discuss NAVHDA vs DKV testing...AND DO IT IN A RATIONAL WAY...start a different thread.

[proudag08]

Jesus, Mary and Joseph! This thread is about breeder recommendations for a new dog owner in Texas. If people can't follow direction and stop the NAVHDA vs DKV crap, I am going to get medieval.

If anyone wants to discuss NAVHDA vs DKV testing...AND DO IT IN A RATIONAL WAY...start a different thread.

+1,000,000 these http://www.joelscoins.com/ancient.htm

[TexasAggie09]

ProudAg

I dont get on this site very often, so sorry I haven't caught up with you. Charlie Rose at wildrose german shorthairs is the gentleman I would contact in this region. Just call him up and pick his brain. Tell him what you are looking for and he will let you know if he can deliver that to you. From Ft. Worth it would take 2 hours to drive out and see his dogs, and he would have no problem showing them to you in the field. If he does not have what you need, he will give you the names of some breeders more down your alley. He is a standup man that shoots strait and likes to talk birddogs. Dont be intimidated to call him.

I would start my search there. If you are looking outside the region, as many have mentioned Walnut hill kennels hasvery good dogs. Also, Top Gun german shorhairs is very highly thought of.

many others may give you other breeders to look at, but I figured I would get this thread back on track with my opinion! Glad to hear you decided on a breed and I think that you made a wise choice based on what you want to do with the dog.

Cheers,

TexasAggie09

[lvrgsp]

Dennis Brath will be down in Texas for winter camp in January, he will be about 2 hrs west and a bit south of Ft Worth....I can PM you his info or
go here........http://www.cadenskennels.com/

Ronnie Sale is down around Jonesboro, Tx at Free Flight kennels......
http://www.rsaledogs.com/

John rabidou at Uodibar kennels is in Hondo, pm me if you want his info.....

Rockin G kennels in Oklahoma City, OK he has a couple of nice litters coming up this spring not advertised yet, good guy runs a lot of NSTRA has some black and white dogs, hes a straight shooter from my experience.....
http://www.rockingkennel.com/default.as ... 3&HDR=Home.

As for what to ask......
Tell em what ya want be honest, be respectful, listen to what they have not what you want to hear, as Howie or someone else said might be a good NAVHDA club down around there to go and watch and see if it is your cup of tea, as well as some hunt tests and some field trial clubs too..

Good luck buddy,

[BigShooter]

ProudAg

I dont get on this site very often, so sorry I haven't caught up with you. Charlie Rose at wildrose german shorthairs is the gentleman I would contact in this region. Just call him up and pick his brain. Tell him what you are looking for and he will let you know if he can deliver that to you. From Ft. Worth it would take 2 hours to drive out and see his dogs, and he would have no problem showing them to you in the field. If he does not have what you need, he will give you the names of some breeders more down your alley. He is a standup man that shoots strait and likes to talk birddogs. Dont be intimidated to call him.

I would start my search there. If you are looking outside the region, as many have mentioned Walnut hill kennels hasvery good dogs. Also, Top Gun german shorhairs is very highly thought of.

many others may give you other breeders to look at, but I figured I would get this thread back on track with my opinion! Glad to hear you decided on a breed and I think that you made a wise choice based on what you want to do with the dog.

Cheers,

TexasAggie09

Re: First time post
by BigShooter » Fri Oct 22, 2010 5:28 pm

If you get interested in German Shorthaired Pointers contact Charlie Rose @ Wildrose Kennels in TX, http://www.wildrosegermanshorthairs.com/ . He guides, hunts, breeds, trains & trials dogs. Smart guy & trustworthy. He can probably provide you with contact names of dog folks closer to your new home as well.
Mark

This advice is just as good now as it was the first time it was given nearly a month ago.

[Coveyrise64]

Seriously for a first dog I know puppies are fun and cute and people get wrapped up in this bonding thing which if you are a good leader a dog will bond up with you in no time

I would get a good started dog..I know it seems like a good chunk of change but in the long run you will be a head of the game.
You won't have the training costs which more often then not can come out to be more then the cost of a started ready to go hunting dog.

After following this saga for several weeks I think Knine had some really good advice. Training a pup (young dog) takes a tremendous amount of time and effort for it to reach its potential. Many first time owners have good intentions but unfortunately a well breed pointing dog ends up being a renegade or a rescue. I sincerely wish you would rethink this decision and look at a started dog or at least have your dog trained by someone who knows what they are doing. Your days afield will be much more enjoyable.

Coveyrise64