Gun shy? Heck no!

[Ayres]

Last weekend Danyelle and I went out to shoot the rest of a leftover box of clays. We left Justus in the able hands of Danyelle's sister, and took off for the back forty.

A few hundred yards away from the barn where Justus was outside and playing around, we started shooting the clays. Eventually, little sis was within about 75 yards of us and shouting "He's coming, I can't stop him!" It seems that with every shotgun crack, Justus was stopping and looking in our direction. Finally he just took off towards the noise, curious as ever.

He was within about 40 yards when he finally stopped coming. He was also behind a grown up fencerow, so he couldn't see us. When we heard that he was turning around and going back, we stopped shooting and came out around the fencepost so he could see us. Man was that dog ever a happy little critter!

Long story cut short - he eventually worked his way up so that he would be sitting within about 5 to 10 feet of us as we shot the gun off over and over. He never flinched a bit, and, to the contrary, was having a blast running about in the fields.

Was this the best way to introduce him to gunfire? Heck, I don't have a clue but it worked.

[dhondtm]

Thats pretty much what I was planning on doing. I have some clays I need to shoot anyhow. Figured I would have two people in the shooting area and one person handling the dog then ease her in a little at a time. Then I was going to switch off with the handler so the dog knew everything was alright up there and just continue.

Good to hear you had no trouble what-so-ever. I've read others suggest not introducing them to the gun shots this way because they naturally want to retrieve what your shooting. But, it seems perfectly reasonable to me and I need the practice anyhow.

[snips]

Your playing with fire here. It MIGHT work, but what if it ruins your pup forever? It is not worth taking a Chance, IMO. The best way is get your pup bird-cRazy first, then shoot a blank while he`s in chase.

[Ayres]

I don't see how it could ruin a pup, especially if he's the one heading towards the gunfire all under his own will. Besides, a 20 ga. in the distance with some trees inbetween is much softer than the crack of a .22 blank. The shotgun in the distance is also preferred by a lot of trainers too, because it gets the dog accoustomed to the sound without any adverse reactions towards the handler (as opposed to a .22 being fired from the one holding the check cord). There's also just one heck of a curiosity element.

I do agree with making gunfire associated with having fun, and that's what we did. He was having so much fun exploring the grassy areas, fields, woods and creek that the gunfire was associated with it all. At one point I tried to lead him away from the gun again, but he eventually stopped, turned around, and took off back towards it.

Sometimes we just need to think more like a dog. From what I gather, Justus was thinking "I was having fun when that boom sounded off. I guess when that boom sounds off, I get to have fun!"

[snips]

You may have gotten by with it, luckily. I don`t think it`s a good idea to encourage it as the proper way of introducing a pup to gunfire. I see alot of young dogs that are introduced to gunfire, some can handle it and some don`t. I am just encouraging the side of caution. Better safe than sorry!

[Featherman]

<edited by forum mod.>

Since you found it necessary to "edit" my post, I would rather remove it than have the original intent misunderstood.

Too bad for the dogs!

Jon

[Ayres]

Brenda - You're absolutely right about exercising caution. We kept a cautious eye on Justus the whole time and took note of his demeanor before, during and after the gunshots went off. He was just having a good time, and it never phased him, no matter how close he got to us.

I must make note, again, that it was the dog's choice to come close to the gunfire and not ours. I definately wouldn't push the dog into this sort of situation. We actually tried to prevent it by keeping him close to the barn, some 500 yards away, but since our little guy is so hard headed he just made up his own mind about it and that was that!

[grant]

No harm intended, Jon. I don’t see anything wrong with disagreeing, but personal slams, especially towards those of us who are learning just don’t minister to the goals of the forum….

Agreeing to disagree works.

I think that if that worked for Justus, then that’s great. Bell was introduced to the gun in a similar way, and she is fine.

I’m sure that a bird crazy dog would have less of a chance being gun shy when introduced to the gun when chasing birds, so that’s how I will do it from now on. =)

Grant

[PA_Sportsman]

When introduced Gracie to gun fire, I started with a pot and wooden spoon while she ate. Then I moved to a cap gun and fired it as she chased a quail.

Then I went to a .22 while she chased a thrown bumper.

After that I used a .410 while she chased a thrown bumper.

Then I moved up to a 12 ga in the same situation.

On the final intro I planted a quail and if she pointed it, I would go in flush it and shoot so she began to associate gun fire with birds. After she was coniditioned to gun fire, I only shot a gun in the presence of game.

The whole process took about 1 1/2 month going at the rate of 3, 10 minutes sessions per week.

[Ayres]

I'm sure that there are people who think this method is just some crazy hair-brained way to possibly screw up a pup. I do want to let everyone know that I didn't just make this up.

The Best Way To Train Your Gun Dog; The Delmar Smith Method by Bill Tarrant, is the book I have been taking my training methods from. Delmar mentions twice in the book about introducing a pup to gunfire. First, he mentions shooting a shotgun in the distance while giving the pup chow so that he associates it with something pleasant. Secondly, he mentions that when trying to correct gunshyness, to fire a shotgun in the distance while giving the dog cool drinking water.

Since we had some clays to go through, and since Danyelle had just graduated from her Hunters' Education Course, we decided that it would be a good time to let Justus hear a gun in the distance. He was playing about and exploring (doing something fun) while we were quite a ways off shooting. We never expected him to run towards the gunfire. We didn't think it would be a good idea to cut him off from his curiosity because that might send the message to him that he should avoid the gun. We did exercise caution, just as anyone would do while introducing a dog to the gun with any method.

I'm also sure that even after reading this post, there will be those out there that don't think this is the best way, or may even think the worst of introducing a gun in this manner. That's their opinion and they're entitled to it. But, as Grant said, agreeing to disagree is the best way to avoid petty conflicts.

This method worked well for me, and it has worked for others in the past. If anyone in the future wants to use it, I'd recommend that they use caution because you can burn a dog using any of the known methods. There's not one method that is foolproof.

[Decoy]

I think that method worked just fine.
The key here is that Justus went TO the gun fire!!!!!!!!!!!
He was not forced or lead to it.
He went because of his own curiosity.
It may not work for every dog and that is fine, but if a dog has the opportunity to hear gun fire and naturally goes toward it -- why in the world would you criticize that.
the only time i have ever been worried about introducing gunfire to dogs has been with my gsp ---- with labs their first intro was in a duck blind and they are not gun shy -- guess i got lucky

Keep up the good work Justus will be fine

[Decoy]

and one more thing i would rather have a dog like justus that naturally went toward gun fire than one that had pots and pans banged around his head while he was eating -- talk about traumatic

[sudiegirl]

eric did get lucky with his lab and gunfire (i know)
MY lab was introduced this way (which i would not do/ allow to be done to any animal of mine ever again): a buddy of mine who was training my lab for me(and with this exception where he got very lucky, did do a good job BTW) took bo out in a boat (his first time over "big water") and shot a 12 gauge. it luckily did not bother bo. i did not know of it until after the fact.

either way, there are many ways to introduce your dog to gunfire. i like the "dog is excited about the bird and then shoot the muffled cap pistol, slowly working your way up to bigger guns so the dog associates the gunfire with birds and fun" one personally. and while i think that it is best to stay on the cautious side, i dont see anything bad about justus' situation since (from what i understand about reading this) the gunfire he originally heard was very quiet, and HE ventured closer to the louder noise as he got closer to the guns. i think that it would have been different (and risky) had he been on the "range" with the gunfire to start out with, but you were very careful, and that did not happen.

sounds like justus is one bold little pup. one word of caution. even though he was not scared this time, and may never be scared, i would not just start shooting around him unless the situation was as you described above where HE is able to control the level of noise he is hearing. and you probably already know all this, but it may startle him if he is standing there or running and romping about in the fields and meadows very close-by or whatever, and you just fire the gun. random loud noises can startle some dogs (that may not be "gun shy" in "hunting" situations ever). all i am saying is congrats, but eeeek, be careful. good job and good luck!

[PA_Sportsman]

and one more thing i would rather have a dog like justus that naturally went toward gun fire than one that had pots and pans banged around his head while he was eating -- talk about traumatic

Just in case this was directed at me, the wooden spoon and pot were used from across the room while she ate. Not next to her head. If this was not directed at my post, my apologies and please disregard.

[Decoy]

Not directed an anyone in perticular. I was just defending Justus and the way he introduced himself to gunfire.
I think there are many ways to skin a cat - maybe some are better than others - maybe they are not -
I hate the sound of a banging pot or pan and i love the sound of gunfire - If i were a dog i would probably have been chalked up as gunshy and tossed out to the GSP rescue program if my owner banged a pot around me while i was eating.
I understand the theory - I just felt that the thread lost track of the way Justus went to the gunfire

[macstartan]

Hey All
I have NEVER had a pup come out of my kennell that was gun shy.
From the time they are about yo open their eyes i am in the welping box claping .When they start to eat puppy mash i bang their feed bowls.
When i introduce them to gun fire it is at a distance of over 79to 80 yards wile pidgeons are released GRADULY moving closer over a long period of time .
This does not mean you can't make a dog gun shy.
Mac