Weim in heat....suddenly gun shy

[Titan_Up]

Any information greatly appreciated. I have a 1 year old weimaraner who is in the estrus cycle of heat for the first time. She has been on 3 previous hunts. She's not what I would call a strong driven hunter, but has done well with finding birds thus far. Took her hunting yesterday for some chukar and she acted completely disinterested in the birds....she found the first 2 planted specifically for her to work, she pointed, but broke point and didn't even seem interested once she sighted the birds. After other dogs pointed, and we flushed the birds, she was gun shy. She hung out about 25-30 yards behind hunters. I didn't force the issue, but put her back on the truck. Most all of gun shots afterwards were a long ways from vehicle.

On the previous 3 hunts, she never acted gun shy and was all over the retrieve. Took her pheasant hunting two weeks ago, pointed and retrieved 1st pheasant ever bird to hand no problem. I raise birds and she has loved driving them crazy over the past year.

Could the disinterest in the birds and gun shyness come from being in heat? I am baffled by both as she has seemed interested and unflinching previously.

[snips]

Have you always had multiple guns going off? Were there more hunters this time?

[Titan_Up]

always been 3 or 4 hunters (the same group each time) probably shot 4 shots at first bird. 2 guns firing. I didn't carry as we were still close to the truck. I was more interested in working her. Guns were in front of her on the shots (bird flushed out of the backside of tree where she was pointing. When she did well with the pheasant, it was me and one other hunter on that bird, 2 shots...she never flinched....she was all bird, bird, bird.

Both were the first shots of the day.....so it went from seemingly quiet to LOUD!

Thanks for asking....trying to figure out if this is solely a gun issue and major need to worry or hormonal issues that will pass.

[snips]

I would suggest taking her back out on birds with no shooting....Let her hunt and gain confidence...If she is acting bold and liking the birds, maybe next time down shoot her a bird...One gun. Dogs can be overloaded with the noise...I do not think it is hormones.

[Sharon]

"Could the disinterest in the birds and gun shyness come from being in heat?" quote

Absolutely the disinterest. Never heard of coming into heat affecting a dog's confidence around the gun, but I wouldn't say it's not possible.

[tailcrackin]

Brenda is right on the money with her posts, the only thing I could add to them is to not be in a hurry to shoot the gun. Weims can be real quirky outta season, I could only imagine them being in season. Not saying that has anything at all to do with things, but it a very common trait in them. Always on a fix, start small, then slowly go big, meaning just cause she gets jacked up on a bird today, doesnt mean for a 100% its safe to shoot now, or tomorrow.......myself, I would wait several days after the excitment shows......before reincluding the shot. This way your butt is a little more covered. I would also go with a blank pistol, and then later overlay the shotgun. I, myself in this style of fix, I dont shoot in the timber or very close to....nor will I shoot on a cloudy day, or rainy day......I want the sound getting gone quickly, I feel clouds muffle, and keep it close to the ground, along with the timber, I think the sound has no way of escaping the trees. Patience is always a virtue in a dog fix. Trust what the dog says, it will help you in your judgement. Thanks Jonesy

[BoJack]

A female in heat can do all kinds of crazy things.Was competing in a working dog trial a few years back,with a female in heat,that had to run as a bye and the last dog in the trial naturally.She impressed many and placed high in other trials.
During her run she did Everything wrong,as if she had never been trained.When the trial was over the judge(Nationally ranked) came up to me and said "that's exactly why I don't compete with females,they will do all kinds of Crazy things when in heat".

[Titan_Up]

Thanks for all of the info. Gonna start over with the gun training.....22 blanks, .410, .20, .12 at distances then moving in with each one. Both issues really concern me....she is a year old and has done well to this point. Suppose to hunt pheasants in a very controlled setting in two weeks...I will pull a bird or two and check her interest level in them and slowly go from there.

On Monday, it was cloudy, but relatively open. I am not liking the fact the 1st gun shots of the day were close..(the 1st shots rang out very close to dog)..I am thinking it may be better to get her away at first and quit putting her on the first birds, so that she has a chance to hear the gunfire from a distance then move to closer proximity. All guns shot on Monday were 12 ga., usually there is a mix of 20 and 12's.

Like I mentioned....I know she doesn't have tremendous drive, but she has always "wanted the bird".....we gave her couple after being downed and it seemed as though she wanted the bird, just not where we were, she would initially move away with bird until commanded to come.

Any specific advice will be well taken....Thanks

[tailcrackin]

I wouldnt worry on the gun yet, get her desire going good or get it better. Not saying you did this, but you might have the gun going to soon, exspecially a number of guns. But that is hind sight now. If you do the 22's I would recommend the 22 crimps that you can get at lowes or home depot style of store, the brown box will be plenty........you dont want to use a live shell, because it will crack when it goes off, and I would be very very careful on the crack, plus the safety issue of it. Just have a lil patience, if it was good before, could very well work back into being fine, but your timing will be priceless, along with not rushing.........She has to relax and give in to and for you, that will pull her off the wall........you start forcing and make it happen, it could possibly turn worse. You do what you want, how you want, but walk slow an soft......wiems are pretty quirky and she could just throw in the towel all together, if your not paying attention to her. Thanks Jonesy

[MillerClemsonHD]

I would take what Jonesy has written here to heart. The best way to fix this isn't going to be 1 or 2 birds and then start hunting. Even before taking a gun in the distance and starting work her on some birds with no shooting. This is going to be a slow process to be done right, but will be worth it when you have years of hunting with your dog. If you don't take your time and do this right you could cause the issue to become worse and take longer and more work to fix.

Go back in training. Work your dog on a few birds without shooting. If she still chases wait until she is in full chase and fire a 22 blank from a distance away and watch for a reaction. Then progress slowly from there. If she is standing her birds and no longer chases I would send Jonesy or Snips for some other ideas. I'm not a pro by any means but have observed one working with a gun shy process and it is a slow process that needs to be done right. Just remember, the reward for going slow and doing it right now is the years of hunting with your dog.

My female just came into heat in the past day or so, her behavior always changes a great deal. I always error on the side of caution and give her a few weeks off from training. We had a great training session last weekend and I see no reason to jeopardize that when her head is all screwed up.

Feel free to PM me if you want, but one of the pros that frequent this site can best help you. Most of them have worked through gun issues with multiple dogs. Take their advice to heart.

[Titan_Up]

Once again thanks for all the advice. Not going to rush her. I have .22 crimps. Not planning on doing anything with gun until she is gung ho on birds again. I did hide some pheasant wings around the house this evening and she was very interested in finding them and hunting (which was a big difference than the other day) Don't have a lot of birds left this year to work her with at home, but will get on as many as possible.

Would love to have her hunting now, but do realize the patience needed to get her back. I will probably take the hunting opportunities to work on my shot as that needs improving too! and keep her away from the group.

I did fail to mention the end of that hunt.....I got her back off of the truck the last 30 minutes as we were looking for leftovers, I took her off away from group on our own. The others got 6-8 shots off, we were probably 200+ yards away, she didn't seem bothered by the shots at that point....NOTHING was shot in close proximity to her. She was back out in front of me checking out scents and the likes. Thanks again and if anyone still has ideas, I am open to listen.

[kensfishing]

Gun shy dogs are not born, they are created.

[ISAYWHOANOW]

unfortunately you took a huge step backwards. I hope you can fix it. seriously it sounds as if she blinked the birds. Then just to top it off they got pointed by another dog while she had just told you there was a problem. Then to top off that problem (Bang, Bang, Bang.). I fell bad for you. But I am guessing you have a huge problem now. birds and guns. She has associated both of those as not fun. I don't think the heat cycle had anything to do with it personally. She was put in a bad situation and you didn't realize it until it was to late. Good luck turning it around. Wish you the best with that.

Ryan.

[Titan_Up]

Everyone has been helpful, not critical. I have not stated that she was born that way nor would I ever. I understand the problem was created! Wanted to make sure the weirdness of 1st time popping up wasn't the hormonal thing.

On a positive, Put her on a track and trail adventure for pheasant yesterday, she searched excitedly and found the reward. Still an interest there which is good. Started with one bird, all positive. She wanted to keep going, but stopped on a positive.

[ezzy333]

unfortunately you took a huge step backwards. I hope you can fix it. seriously it sounds as if she blinked the birds. Then just to top it off they got pointed by another dog while she had just told you there was a problem. Then to top off that problem (Bang, Bang, Bang.). I fell bad for you. But I am guessing you have a huge problem now. birds and guns. She has associated both of those as not fun. I don't think the heat cycle had anything to do with it personally. She was put in a bad situation and you didn't realize it until it was to late. Good luck turning it around. Wish you the best with that.

Ryan.

I really don't see that anyone is to blame for what happened and am glad that Titan is concerned about how to fix it. Don' see any sign that a serious problem has occured or any real problem solving it.

I think the fact she had come into heat may have been a contributing factor but would guess there are other things going on.

Big thing now is just go back, start over, and go slow till you can tell what the problems really are.

Ezzy

[ISAYWHOANOW]

unfortunately you took a huge step backwards. I hope you can fix it. seriously it sounds as if she blinked the birds. Then just to top it off they got pointed by another dog while she had just told you there was a problem. Then to top off that problem (Bang, Bang, Bang.). I fell bad for you. But I am guessing you have a huge problem now. birds and guns. She has associated both of those as not fun. I don't think the heat cycle had anything to do with it personally. She was put in a bad situation and you didn't realize it until it was to late. Good luck turning it around. Wish you the best with that.

Ryan.

I really don't see that anyone is to blame for what happened and am glad that Titan is concerned about how to fix it. Don' see any sign that a serious problem has occured or any real problem solving it.

I think the fact she had come into heat may have been a contributing factor but would guess there are other things going on.

Big thing now is just go back, start over, and go slow till you can tell what the problems really are.

Ezzy

Sorry Ezzy. I surely was not trying to point the finger and belittle anyone Ezzy. Its a man and his bird dog and a situation. No one would ever do anything intentionally to hurt there dogs odds of turning into one. I was in no way trying to be offensive at all. I actually feel real bad for the situation. Nothing more. I hope I was not offensive at all. That was not my intent. I hope more than anyone they can work through it together. Again sorry if my post was anyway offensive. Thanks.

Ryan.

I rarely see a dog through its 1st season... Just a few each year. I wish them the best.

[Karen]

I have 1 that turns into an absolute flake when she comes into season....won't run, won't point, or will be totally broke on her birds for months, then pounce on them when she's coming in. We don't even bother taking her out of her kennel to train. It starts 7-10 days BEFORE she's in, and lasts about that long after. It's one of the reasons we never seem to be able to field trial her (6 weeks of insanity). She comes into season in late September/early October and late March/early April. Messes up the ENTIRE FT season.

Anyway, you may just be seeing a dog acting screwy because of hormones.

[Ryman Gun Dog]

Titan_Up,
Females act funny when in heat, the can show different traits than normal, I never hunt my female dogs when they are in heat, pull your dog from the field until after her heat cycle has ended, then go back to your normal hunting routine a little at a time. Female dogs should not be hunted when in heat unless you own your own private grounds and take your dog out alone.
RGD/Dave

[Titan_Up]

UPDATE:

First off, have to say thanks to all for help.

Charlee is coming back around. As she went out of heat, I started working her on planted birds (no wild ones in area). She has been checkcorded every outing. I have made a conscious effort to not lead her to the birds, and she has done a good job of finding them and wanting to get bird. Drive seems to be solid at this point. I had her on short sessions all weekend. I basically started over a week or so ago with gun breaking, never shown the shyness again. Today, she worked a field very well and never acknowledged a gun shot (last one was close by), just can't get her to hold point.

The gunshyness in this situation and at this point, seemed to be a one time thing, possibly attributed to being in heat. It's all I can do to hold the check cord on the flush as she wants the bird badly.

We'll keep going slowly and see what happens.