Chain Gang

[Ryan]

Hey Guys/Gals,

I am building a chanin gang for when we head out to hunt tests, feild trials, camping, or whenever else a chain gang will come in handy. I was planning on building a 6 dog chain gang. This will allow plenty of space for my 2 crazies and anyone else that comes with me.

The chain from the dog to the chain will be 30 inches long, the space between the links will be 6 feet. This will give me an overall length of 30 feet. There will be 2 pegs that will be driven into the ground and welded to the poles will be a screw link like this:

This will allow for easy storage. Now to connect the dogs to the chain. I was just thinking of using some big washers and a bolt with a nut on the other side. This will allow for a nice swivel if it needs to. The dogs will be attatched to the chain with a caribiner


Will this idea work? What should I tweak? Last what size of chain should I use?

Thanks

[Ayres]

I know the chain gang and stake-outs are popular, especially at field trials, but I really like to just keep my dog in a crate until game time. He fires out of the crate, does his business quickly, and then hits the field blazin'. I think stake-outs and the chain allow a dog to be too mobile, play with close dogs, stress and whine about having to wait to get to the field, etc. Just my preference of course.

My question to you, Ryan, is, with only two dogs isn't it a lot cheaper and easier to go with two short stake-outs rather than building a tie-down chain to have to lug around?

[Ryan]

I already got 2 stakeouts for my 2 but when I got friends out with their dogs its nice to beable to throw them on a chain instead of them tearing out the inside of the vehicle.

[SwitchGrassWPG]

You don't need to use a really heavy chain. Use the same size as on your stakes. I'd suggest not using the caribiner. You'll need something with a built-in swivel to prevent the dogs from getting the chain wrapped up tight. For you stakes, use your individual tie out stakes for this if you aren't going to be using them in addition to your chain gang.

By the way, The Pointing Dog Journal had a good article on the benefits of using a chain gang at your training sessions.

[Casper]

Ryan I just finished building my 6 dog chain. I will try and get you some pics up tonight as to what and why I did it the way I did.

[TAK]

I use chain I believe 1/2 or 3/4 in size each tie out on the gang has a swivel on it.

[Ayres]

By the way, The Pointing Dog Journal had a good article on the benefits of using a chain gang at your training sessions.

I read that article. It wasn't about the chain gang at all, rather about letting younger dogs watch older dogs work in the field. The theory is that a younger dog that watches a veteran work seems to learn at a quicker pace. The chain gang was just a noted place where dogs could be close and watch. Short stake outs work, as does turning your crates so the dogs can see out the front.

[Coveyrise64]

Ayres wrote:

but I really like to just keep my dog in a crate until game time. He fires out of the crate, does his business quickly, and then hits the field blazin'. I think stake-outs and the chain allow a dog to be too mobile, play with close dogs, stress and whine about having to wait to get to the field, etc.

I agree with Ayers, exact same thing I practice, even at training days. Nothing more annoying than a dog on a stake-out barking at everything or everyone that walks by. If I want my dog to watch what's going on I have her at my side, on leash.

Nice gesture on your part, but it sounds like your buddies need to step up and get them a tie-out stake or crate if they are going to own hunting dogs.

Coveyrise64

[pear]

Ryan, I have read and re-read your plan/question on chain gangs, and I think you have the right idea on the construction, but I think your off on sizes and I'm confused about the bolt and washer. I'd not make the hitch chains anymore than 18 to 20 inches long. I'd start with a length of chain, of your choice and affix a ring to each end for the stake to go through. I buy the rings and the and screw links at a Home Depot/Lowes/Tractor Supply type store. I would affix hitch chain to the main chain with the screw links, then on the opposite end of the hitch chain I'd affix a quality snap swivel with another screw link. Taking this one step further, if I were wanting a chain gang that would normally have varying numbers of dogs on it, I'd cut my main chain at the point of each hitch chain and then reattach with a screw link. By doing this you can actually put out the proper length each time you use it, just attach either, an end ring or more chain which ever the case dictates. I'd also play with the distances between the hitch chains as this may very greatly, in need from one dog size to another. Just my ideas and may not suit your needs. I've built a couple over the course of time and what I have described works best for me, and eliminates the need to put out a 10-12 dog chain gang when 5 may be all you need. Personally I never put out a C/G for less than 5 dogs 1 to 5 and I just use individual stakes...Just my thoughts, "pear"

[TAK]

Ayres wrote:

but I really like to just keep my dog in a crate until game time. He fires out of the crate, does his business quickly, and then hits the field blazin'. I think stake-outs and the chain allow a dog to be too mobile, play with close dogs, stress and whine about having to wait to get to the field, etc.

Nothing more annoying than a dog on a stake-out barking at everything or everyone that walks by. If I want my dog to watch what's going on I have her at my side, on leash.
Coveyrise64

True it is annoying but see a Big bennifit for both dogs. I see the dog getting worked having to perform through the commotion and going to give you the assurance this dog can handle about anything and I see the other just getting the engine warmed up!

[Wagonmaster]

would use the screw type caribiner rather than a quick clip. dogs are all over the place with a stakeout, and a quick clip could come open. most stakeouts use permanent connections, dropper to main chain and clip for the collar to the dropper. screw on caribiner works fine.

for someone who has one or two dogs a box works ok, but people with more dogs like the stakeout better. one reason is that it becomes difficult to hold the dogs in a space, such as the back of a truck or the dressing room in a trailer, that does not get hot with alot of boxes and dogs in it. the other is that the dogs on a stakeout get to move around, eat, drink, go to the bathroom, etc. more of an issue if you have alot of dogs to train and are going to be out there for awhile, rather than one or two dogs.

not home today and cannot measure my chain for you. however, dropper should be lighter than main chain. you do not want to have the dog drag around a heavy chain attached to its collar all day. the purpose of the heavier main chain is that the weight of it helps take up the "pop" when dogs are jumping around.

theoretically, it would work to use a material other than chain for the dropper. i believe the sled dog use coated cable, but would not recommend it myself. that cable can get wrapped around stuff too tightly. saw a horse with a severed femoral artery from one a couple of years ago. so would stick with light chain for dropper.

[original mngsp]

As far as barking dogs on a chaingang. It just can be another part of training, train your dogs not to bark.

At trials most chaingangs are pretty quiet bunches of dogs. But there always seems to be one evrywhere that lets thier whole string bark and make noise. It can be darn irritatiing.

[llewgor]

Here's LCS chain gang, price goes up when you add dogs.

LCSupply Link

Wasn't that article in PDJ something about monkey see, monkey do? Because a dog is so visual doesn't it help to chain gang the dogs while the other's being trained?

Ayres
I don't field trial but I've read somewhere that some people crate they're dog before it's they're turn to run.


*edited to fix the horizontal scroll

[Ayres]

for someone who has one or two dogs a box works ok, but people with more dogs like the stakeout better. one reason is that it becomes difficult to hold the dogs in a space, such as the back of a truck or the dressing room in a trailer, that does not get hot with alot of boxes and dogs in it. the other is that the dogs on a stakeout get to move around, eat, drink, go to the bathroom, etc. more of an issue if you have alot of dogs to train and are going to be out there for awhile, rather than one or two dogs.

Well, here's where differences come into play. My dog eats once a day, at dinnertime, usually around 5-6 p.m., so he doesn't need to eat when out to the field training or before a hunt test. I don't want him moving around before he runs, and he gets a bucket of water in his crate if he gets thirsty. He's allowed to go to the bathroom before we leave and I'll let him out to do his business if he's stuck in the crate for more than a few hours, but then he goes right back in.

I'll give you the uncontrollable temperature thing on exceptionally hot days, but I've gone to a hunt test with a friend and we've taken 8 dogs (4 in a 4-box trailer and 4 in crates in the back of a pickup with a camper shell) and used the crate system the whole time. We always do that when out in the field training too. I really don't think stake-outs or a chain gang is necessary but I do know some folks just prefer it. I just happen to not.

[Casper]

Some of us use the Chain as a training tool. This is a place that a dog can learn to give in to restiction learn a point of contact. Most everything a dog will do in the field will show up on the chain. Since training is never ending life on the chain will be too. A dog can learn to relieve its self there. They are able to get up stretch, move around, bask in the sun, watch all that is going on, etc. At the younger age a dog is put on the chain the easier it is to get them to be quiet and the sooner they give into any leash or check cord.

I only wish I could have written this verbatem as it was told to me by Rick Smith. Hopefully the idea is there.

[Greg Jennings]

would use the screw type caribiner rather than a quick clip. dogs are all over the place with a stakeout, and a quick clip could come open.

My experience is that the quick connect *will* fail. My GSP has a knack for it. Takes him about 5 seconds to get loose.

Best,

[gunner]

I won't go into a long description of the reasons why knowledgable dog handlers and professional trainers use single or multible drop chain gangs. Just visit the Rick Smith/ Huntsmith site for your answers, or visit any pro's training operation.

You may be intersested in visiting any sled dog site as well. They have some really pretty neat CABLE gang setups which are much lighter and easier to handle than chain.

If you decide to leave your dogs in a crate, have at it...

[Ayres]

I won't go into a long description of the reasons why knowledgable dog handlers and professional trainers use single or multible drop chain gangs. Just visit the Rick Smith/ Huntsmith site for your answers, or visit any pro's training operation.

I know why some people like to use the chain gang, but don't insinuate that because I like to use the crate method that I'm not "knowledgebale" or work with a pro trainer who isn't. There is no "one way is right" when it comes to dog training and handling. I've gotten 4 JH passes and 2 SH passes with no fails inbetween using the crate method. The pro trainer I work with has put on countless SH and MH titles on dogs using the crate method as well, so that's one "pro's training operation" you can cross off the list.

Rick Smith (actually, Delmar Smith was using it before Rick - as described in Bill Tarrant's "The Best Way to Train your Gun Dog - The Delmar Smith Method") has his reasons for using the chain gang and plenty of other trainers have followed suit. Some have asked questions as to why they should use a chain gang and others have just used it because everybody else does it. But as I've witnessed, by handling my own dog and by watching a pro trainer handle their dogs, it doesn't take a chain gang to make a trainer "knowledgable," and just because one doesn't use a chain gang doesn't make one not "knowledgable." Like I've said before, it's all preference. I will continue to use the crate method. It's brought me a lot of success thus far. In my opinion the best thing you can do when training or running dogs is to find out what works for your dogs and stick with it. Sometimes the "best" ways for a person or a dog are against what "all the pros are doing" or "how it's always been done."

[HUTCH]

I just started using the chain gang and I love it I have three dog chain and my dogs have learned to be calm when I am around and to give to the pull on their collar. Best training tool I have used so far.the drop chains should be 18 inches if they are too long the dog will never stop pulling. there is an article on the Rick Smith forum that describes how to build it and the lengths of chain you will need. I beleive I uses 3/16 th chain I use it in my yard and the dogs love it.

[Wagonmaster]

the world is not going to end if some people use the chain and others use the box. don't think anyway was saying that someone who uses the box is a bad or inferior trainer or a trainer who lacks knowledge. just two different ways.

[Ayres]

the world is not going to end if some people use the chain and others use the box.

I agree wholeheartedly, and this is what I've been saying all along. It's preference.

don't think anyway was saying that someone who uses the box is a bad or inferior trainer or a trainer who lacks knowledge.

Really? 'Cause that's exactly how I took it when it was said that there are many "reasons why knowledgeable dog handlers and professional trainers use single or multible drop chain gangs. Just visit the Rick Smith/ Huntsmith site for your answers, or visit any pro's training operation. ... If you decide to leave your dogs in a crate, have at it..."

Maybe I took it the wrong way.

[Casper]

here you go Ryan

[QCBirddogs]

The only problemI seewith Caspers Gang is the S clips. after some time they do give and open. I would use stainless quick links.

Also in a muti dog gang.....I would put a TAG line in the middle. A chain dead center with a O ring at the end. THis adds more tension for the young ones and keeps them from getting in to trouble.

Another tip....If you use your stakes as tie outs, as I do....never bang them in with chains connected. The vibration causes the snaps to break down more quickly.

Good luck

Phil

[wannabe]

I installed a hook on both ends of my chain gang. When I am traveling across country and stop at a rest stop, I wrap one end around a tree or sign post, the other end attaches to the truck/trailer, and I ease the truck ahead to take out the slack. Now I can get all of the dogs out for a quick bathroom break instead of taking each dog for a walk.