How old should a puppy be?

[jkoehler]

I am getting a new shorthair in the next few weeks. My question is, how early can or would you recommend taking a pup from the mother? I would like to get the dog April 29th, but that would be 5 weeks old?

[Adam]

5 weeks is too young!!

[Kurzhaar]

This is a joke, right?

The pup should be with the litter for at least 7 weeks. Personally, I don't let puppies leave our kennel until the tenth week and preferably the 12th week of age.

Jim

[ezzy333]

Never before 8 weeks. Puppies need to be part of a litter and learn to share and be diciplined my mom just like kids do. Ezzy

[Wagonmaster]

they are likely not fully weaned and definitely not old enough to go to a new home at 5 weeks.

[Ayres]

There is a theory that pups start to imprint, learn and bond as quickly as 5 weeks though. If you can see your pup and spend some time with it at 5 weeks all the better, but it does need to stay with the litter until at least 7 weeks and preferably 8 or 9.

[Buckeye_V]

8 weeks at minimum. I know it's tempting, but wait those extra few weeks. It's better for you and the dog.

[GSP4619]

I agree 8 weeks min. You have that pups whole life to get started let him be a lil pup and ween the right way.

[rschuster54303`]

First shorthair I ever owned was picked up at 5 weeks of age, not saying it was right I was just doing what I was told to do by the breeder. He turned out just fine.

I have picked up my last 4 between 6-8 weeks of age without any problems. If you need to freight the animal I understand the whole 8-10 thing but 12 weeks gimme a break.

To each his own.... :roll:


Regards,

Rob

[Kurzhaar]

you got your pups at 6 weeks of age? Give ME a break! That is WAY too early.

Jim

[rschuster54303`]

So you have peeked my interest Jim what is your kennel name? you said you breed, your acomplishments, number of litters and such. You sound informed.....

Regards,

Rob

[rschuster54303`]

NM sorry your a DK person I retract my question....

Have a great day,

Rob

[Kurzhaar]

Just for the record, rschuster was the person that brought up the DK, NOT a DK breeder or enthusiast.

Regardless, my breed of interest has absolutely NO bearing on my thoughts for selling puppie, I will stand by my statement six weeks is too young.

Jim

[kninebirddog]

If properly socialized by the breeder the earliest is 7 weeks of age.

5 weeks is way to early this pup still needs the littermate to help with puppy socialization roles...

Pups that are detached from the litters to soon ALMOST all of them display nervous and scared behaviours when they grow up with the lack of pack roles which is built up during the 5 and 6 weeks of life which is very important for a pup to learn.this dogs also have more tendencies to nip from self preservation as they are not aggressive but are afraid.

also we have had dogs from a cetain breeder which lets pups go to early that we end up getting for training everyone we have gotton from this persons breedings were tramatized with new events...I end up spending the first 3 weeks just sitting in front of the kennel helping to build up confidence I also know of another trainer who has gotton pups from this same so called breeder ...they end up having to do the same thing. poor breeding practices also have a part to play but lack of proper socialization is a hugh key.

I know it is very exciting to get a pup but it is just as easy to love and nuture a properly bred and raised pup as it is one that comes from a questionable breeder

[portsider44]

I think 7-10wks is the range you want to look at. Any less is just to young IMO.

I picked my pup up just a little past 7 wks, but would have prefered to wait a little longer. However I had #2 pick & the people behind me wanted to pick up ther pups. So fi I wanted a say in my pup, I had to pick her up at 7wks.

I would had prefer to wait another week or two.

[ezzy333]

Check with the seeing eye program and see what they have found out about pups making the grade as seeing eye dogs.

Ezzy

[kninebirddog]

with many of the ie puppy raising programs like The art of raising a puppy or the super pup program which is alot the same used by our service people and studys they have shown on a general scale the best time is about 7 weeks of age for these very socialized pups

for you average have he kids play with pups type socializing 8-10 weeks is probably better those this gets pups used to being given attention and handled which is a good thing and very important the above foremetioned methods have proven to help the immune system plus also teaching pups from day one the stress isn't something to fear it also has pups with more physical control and have a higher ability to learn with less stress related to new things and always heigten what senses the pups have. these pups are also much better about being in new places and more apt to check out things faster ..

between 8-12 weeks of age pups will go through a small fear stage where they become a bit leary about things for a while pups which have been raised with the more stimulating type raising show less signs of the fear stage
this fear stage also hits again between 6 and 10 months of age
primarily is is the people who raise shepards which have promoted this method of raising puppies ...when i was asked about it years ago before i heard of it i had a litter of pups on the ground and tried some of the methods on 2 of them that were about a week old with in 24 hours there was a remarkable differnce in the 2 pups they were more active didn't roll as much when they were trying to move around and i became a believer in the method.
So yes what happens to pups as they are raised up makes a hugh difference in how they will be as they grow up ...things may change with new owners and what they incourage and foster and what they don't but a pup should have everything going for them when they are sent to their new home which can allow them to be the best they can be..and I am not speaking the Army lol

[Luminary Setters]

Knine speaks wisdom. A while back on another board I was ridiculed for suggesting the 8-10 week fear stage and when it repeats in the 6-10 month range.


What happens from birth to 20 weeks ,while the pup is in its imprinting stage, has a profound effect on the end product adult dog. The stressing from birth Knine talks about can have a phenonemal effect on on how the pup turns out as well.

I have been following the development of several litters of E. Pointers, E. Setters, and Labs that are being reared applying these principles as well as many more. Based on what I have seen, I would never take a pup out of this environment before the fear stage has passed. On the other hand, I would take at pup at 6 weeks and put it into program such as this, rather than stay rather than stay in a "lesser" environment.

Another consideration for those wanting a pup that is still in the imprinting stage is can you give it what it really needs before the imprinting window closes. That is not easy task for most. If the breeder is set up to do this, you are much better off leaving the dog with him until the imprint window closes at 20 weeks. It is money well spent. If he is not, you need to be prepared before you bring the pup home to expose him to the stimuli he needs to become a quality gun dog and companion.

[Casper]

IMO I think the best time to pick up a pup is about 6 months. This way the breeder has taken care of ALL the house training, has introduced birds and pup is fired up about them, and is crate trained.

Boy oh boy would that be nice Instead I will take mine 7-8 weeks or when ever I can get them.

FWIW My 2 I picked up at 10 weeks the other at 17 weeks. Niether took any longer to get aclimated. At least none that I realized.

[AHGSP]

8 weeks. I like having the pups under my control for at least that long so I can introduce crates, several long car rides, loud noises, other dogs, distraction, water, birds, environmental stress', etc..., as well as provide a high level of daily socialization. When my pups get to their new homes, they are ready to suceed and often will surprise the new owners with their advanced personalities and performance.

K9,
Not sure, but I think we are talking about introducing the same environmental stress'. Dogs in use for SAR, Drug Detection, Explosives Detection, etc... are routinely expected to have environmental stress placed on them from birth so they are more focused and task oriented when doing "a job or duty" later in life. These stress allow a dog to be less stressed over new or uncomfortable situations and remain focused on the job at hand.

Examples:
Ever walked a dog in a school, mall or office corridor? It is surprising the number of otherwise confident dogs that will refuse to walk down a large, well lit and slick hallway because they are stressed by the situation.

Ever walk a dog into a completely darkened room with absolutely no light or tryed to get a dog to retrieve a bumper or favorite toy from said room? It is remarkable the number of dogs that will not retrieve even their most prized toy from said enviroment because they are not comfortable with the situation.

Ever try to get a dog to retrieve WITHOUT force while you are performing distracting actions that are uncommon or unfamiliar to the dog such as banging a can with a stick? It is amazing the number of well trained retrievers that will stop the retrieve and focus on you and try to figure out what the heck you are doing instead of focusing on the retrieve.

My keeping the pups for 8 weeks permits me the time to provide the conditioning for the pups that permits them to ignore these stress' later in life. Much of this, the average dog owner neither has the time for or perhaps even the knowlege of, to properly condition a pup for the stress' it will encounter through life. So while maybe not a short answer, I at least explain some of my reasoning on my 8 week timeline.

[Margaret]

7 weeks is a little too young really. Some puppies it may be ok but not all puppies mature equally, and there can be a difference of a day or two in conceiving though all pups are born with the first to be ready for birth. So you may have a pup that is not ready at 7 weeks. The 7 week period is ideal for seeing eye dogs because they need to be very people oriented and not independent like our working gundogs. 8 to 10 weeks, and preferably closer to 10 weeks is much better, the puppies have had time to mature in the litter and learn off each other how to behave, and should have access to mother to visit in this period so she can teach them what they are not allowed to get away with. This means you end up with a pup that understands "dog language" and won't get itself into trouble giving the wrong signals, like you might from a pup under 7 weeks that has not had enough socialising time in the litter and with it' s mum. Beware the breeder who removes the bitch from the litter at 4 weeks of age, which does happen.

Of course during these weeks the puppies should be handled and given new experiences, not just left to play with themselves and only visited a feeding and clean up time, for optimum human socialising.

Fear period begins at 7 weeks on average.

[kninebirddog]

Yep...The Monks of New Skete wrote this book back in the early 60's

And I start day 1 firmly stressing(pinching) all four paws stimulating their backs and ears rolling htme around in my hands..placing in a cool box then bring them back to my neck for warmth smell and comfort. I lay them on one side then the next..then place them back with mom at her teat
I also have some bird wings which i will lay in with them so they can already start smelling the scent of birds when they are comfortable and secure
then add when the eyes start to open even though at this point they are only seeing shapes I will introduce objects like balls and such so that they are accustom to seeing new things I am still adding new stimulation to the regime
as the ears start to open I get baby toys which make lots of noise like the little keys that when a button pushes it beep beeps and makes other noises with each push baby rattles where when they roll they make noise
then i will add when I start to feed gruel I will make a bunch of noise in the kitchen banging pots and the blender extra and loudy call puppy puppy puppy then at first I will bring them out and place them next to the gruel I also will feed in different areas like the kitchen the bathrooms I try and add something new everyday
when they are moving around better I will then work to opening their pen area and placing the food about 6 feet away from the pen calling them and letting them come out on their own..if one lags behind I will pick them up and bring them to the food before it is all gone
By 7 weeks my pups are very out going...I ahve had people who are trialers who have been around quite a few pups and dogs and they have remarked that there is a hugh difference in my pups opposed to others they have bought or even have raised themselves....BOLD is a word I hear often

It doesn't take much about 3-5 minutes 2 times a day per pup
at 5 weeks after theri first shot I will take them to an area in our training ground and let them go i will put a quail out and let them find it for themselves....had one little pup she waas gone running jumping playing like she had been outsdoor all her life
the pics I have posted with her pointing her first bird and carrying it around and teh quail was 3/4 the size of the pup they were only 5 weeks old when I did this tails straight up and full of themselves...I will play bump and chase with young pups like this until they are about 10-12 weeks ..if one happens to catch a bird that is when I start other methods with them as they don't need to make a habit out of catching but a baby pup I think it is great when they are struting around with a bird in their mouths this to me is the beginnings of retrieves

So yes at seven weeks this is normally before the fear stage where I will go over the methods I use with my pups and send them home with their new families
They will have been crated and if i am on the road I bring my pups with me so most of them are also extremley well traveled
They will also have to shots in them as I vaccinated my pups at 5 and 7 weeks telling people to go to their vets for the 9 11 and 13 week boosters

many a pup has gone home at different times and have done very well many have gone home at 5 and 6 weeks and not have adjusted as well as those that go home at a later stage with the average socializing of pet the puppy routines
Quality Breeding practices I do believe has alot to do with the pups also...there is just somemuch you can do with the kennel blind person who has a soft pile of mush or a female but has some line they think is so great and breed to another questionable dog
Breeding should be a selection of stock where the dam and sire show strong abilities have strong desires and style and have also passed OFA ....JMHO

[jkoehler]

this makes my decision a little easier, I will wait to the 7 -8 week mark. I had always heard (before this website of course) that the sooner the better to get a dog.

[gcastillo]

The books I have read say that the best time is 7 weeks. While others recommend 8 weeks. Water Dog which I am reading now recommends 7 weeks and he does explain why too long to post here though.

[gundogguru]

Never before 8 weeks. Puppies need to be part of a litter and learn to share and be disciplined my mom just like kids do. Ezzy

in Florida it is against the law to sell a dog before it is 8 weeks old. if a breeders is wanting to move puppies before 8 weeks I would think hard about buying a dog from them

[gcastillo]

well for one wolters states he doesn't like them staying after 7 weeks because then there is pecking order in the pups and that's when the pup start becoming agressive or submissive from what the pack dictates.

[ezzy333]

Out of many litters of pup, I never saw a pecking order in puppies that young. They fight and squabble which is good but they just don't get it figured out that they should be dominant or submissive.

Later in life they may decide depending on their personalities but that happens much later. Many times you see the pup that acts like the dominant and independant one be just the opposite as they grow up.

It has been proved over and over that there is little indication that lets us know what a pup will turn out to be. Thats why none of us can pick the best pup in a litter. But I admit, it gives many people a good feeling trying to figure it out and trying to predict personality or performance. Seems to be the modern way instead of just admitting pups are inheritantly different and there isn't much we can do about it. Mother nature has ruled for years and I don't believe she is ready to give her position up yet.

I to will not let a pup go before 8wks min and I won't buy one either.

Ezzy

[kninebirddog]

Funny I certianly have seen a pecking order in young pups though it changes with learning There is most certainly some learning and displaying of dominance..This is part of their learning process...

But grant for teh average family pet teh puppy socialzation proabaly best left a bit more
For the ones which have the modified programs which also have done studies for many years and for those that have a bit more grasp on nuturing for ceratin things they have repeatedly proven for service or dogs used for things more then just a house hold companion 7 weeks is an optimum age for getting your pup. I think I will listen to the ones who have repeadtedly shown success with their pups and follow in their foots steps

There are many many resources dealing with structuring a pup from day 49
not that the hunting breed has to be so regimed but ones that are going to be trialed have a better chance when really socialized properly

But then again I have seen those people which have a litter of pups and hardly do anything which could be considered proper socialzation "oh we let teh grand kids hold the puppies and call this socialaztion" only to have a pup at no matter what age afraid of anything new...
it is amazing what you can observe in dogs when you hvae the oppotunity to really observer many differnt dogs and they way they are trained treated and raised as even those with proper socialaztion when young if put in a protective house with people who stop nuturing the strong our going desires they can all to fast undo weeks of building