New Quail Organization

[BoJack]

http://www.bringbackbobwhites.org/

[ezzy333]

There are already two major quail organizations which is one too many to be the most effiect. Can't see how another one would help other than just splitting the money up more so none of them have enough to work with.

JMO
Ezzy

[nikegundog]

What are the 2 major ones? Pheasants Forever is a tremendous organizations but the local rod and gun clubs extremely effective, when you have small organizations where there is No payroll and a lot of volunteers it is a tremendous help. When I Googled Quail Unlimited it looks like the money got out of hand, that should never happen.

[Vonzeppelinkennels]

They are Quail Forever & Quail Unlimited.The QU got to big & the most of the money went to the Corporate Head Quaters & we all know what happened from there,kinda like paying taxes to the Gov't.Quail Forever took off from Phez Forever & is run very much the same most of the money is spent locally from the local chapters for habitat projects not on High paid executives & Fancy Corporate Headquarter builings & offices.When ever money is involved their is a crook just waiting to get their hands in it.

[Cajun Casey]

You might want to get up to date on QU. They have restructured. As for regional habitat organizations, more power to them and the more the merrier. BBB appears to concentrate on the Southeast. There is also a Texas organization. Rolling Plains ramrods that one.

IMO, if you are not part of an organization that is looking for a solution, then you are part of the problem.

[V-John]

IMO, if you are not part of an organization that is looking for a solution, then you are part of the problem.

Agree. The more "hands on deck" in this case, the better. Awareness is key.

[Vonzeppelinkennels]

Yes they restructered after they squandered millions of dollars just like the GVT so now they get a bailout by NEW MEMBERS? I was on the board of a QU chapter back in the 90 that never got off the ground.All the region director wanted to know was when are you going to hold your first Banquet so we can take something like 80% of your profit & they don't help with anything.Plus the ODNR was no help at all turkey & deer was all they wanted to hear about.QU NEVER,PF & QF yes.

[ultracarry]

FYI I'm not part of the org's you have mentioned. I'm not part of the problem. Before you make a one sided comment you always should think.

So if you spend 40$ a year you are going to be part in restoring quail habitat or just buying shirts and goodies so kids can take something home?

I would rather not give a dime to any organization and donate something or work for a day. I do not belong to QU so I can say I haven't been ripped off. I am on a mailing list so I can help with projects if my schedule allows but I'm not going to give a dime. I will have two hands and work on what ever needs to be done.

If you don't donate money but have two hands and are willing to work I think you are more a part of the solution than those who are just being a member.

[RoostersMom]

This is not a new organization - it is basically a plan to restore bobwhites. It's an Initiative, not a new organization. I'm on the committee for this group and the VP of Quail Forever is on the board. This is a group of over 100 biologists who have been working to develop a plan to restore quail numbers across their historic range. All of the NGO (non governmental organizations) groups are partners for this recovery effort.

We're having a big kickoff event in KC for biologists and administrators... the plan is solid. Bill Palmer from Tall Timbers has been working on the development of this for the past 2-3 years. It's got a lot of good science behind it - and focuses on where we can (NGO's and State Agencies and the public) make the most bang for our buck in terms of areas to restore.

As for the organizations, you need to join one if you are passionate about the resource and want to help. I choose QF and PF because 100% of the funds raised by chapters is kept by the chapters, they can choose to support major statewide or national issues or they can choose not too. Our local QF chapter focuses on youth events and does habitat days, but doesn't focus dollars on habitat - most of their dollars are spent on youth and women's upland hunts. If you don't care where the money goes, then don't worry about which you join. If you want to get your hands dirty and just volunteer time.... then don't you think you'd be more effective if you were part of a larger group that has the same mission?

As for not needing to be a member, what about CRP? What about managment of CRP acres to benefit quail. Do you think this program just automatically gets funded and passed by itself? It is a major component of PF and QF's strategy to improve and increase the quality of CRP acres. They do it by lobbying and sending local landowners to testify in D.C. They do it by getting chapter members to attend USDA listening stations. Did you know we almost didn't have ANY CRP signup this year until USDA held listening stations that were attended by huge numbers of PF/QF volunteers - especially the one in Kansas. These volunteers spread the word that we wanted more habitat for birds and low and behold, the USDA Secretary of AG came to PF's Pheasant Fest in Omaha two weeks ago and announced another signup for this March.

You can make a difference by joining the right organization. There really is strength in numbers.

[tommyboy72]

I was solely responsible for starting a QU organization in my area are was also Chairman of the organization when it was running. As was stated, all QU wanted to know was when is your first banquet and how much money can we take from you. I live in far western Oklahoma and our regional advisor had to come from Hannibal, MO if that tells you anything. There was never a habitat restoration project undertaken partly because of local private landowners, partly because of our local game wardens and wildlife biologist and partly because of QU administration. Our chapter fell apart and I will never belong to another chapter like that as long as I live.

Part of my issue with the habitat restoration projects is how do you restore habitat for birds that do not exist. If you have no birds in an area and you perform habitat restoration that is all well and good but until you can convince wildlife biologists from other states or other areas of your state to trap and relocate birds to an area where you have performed habitat restoration, installed guzzlers, and planted food plots it is basically all for nothing. You cannot attract and protect what is not there. Also QU seemed to specialize in bobwhites and while we have some coveys out here mostly we have blue or scaled quail out where I live and their habitat needs and food needs vary some from bobwhites. This all goes back to lack of bobwhites in my area. JMO

[ezzy333]

As for not needing to be a member, what about CRP? What about managment of CRP acres to benefit quail. Do you think this program just automatically gets funded and passed by itself? It is a major component of PF and QF's strategy to improve and increase the quality of CRP acres. They do it by lobbying and sending local landowners to testify in D.C. They do it by getting chapter members to attend USDA listening stations. Did you know we almost didn't have ANY CRP signup this year until USDA held listening stations that were attended by huge numbers of PF/QF volunteers - especially the one in Kansas. These volunteers spread the word that we wanted more habitat for birds and low and behold, the USDA Secretary of AG came to PF's Pheasant Fest in Omaha two weeks ago and announced another signup for this March.

Yep, I don't think any wildlife organization had a thing to do with CRP. However, the wildlife took advantage of the improved habitat it provided and then the organizations got interested and started to lobby for more. But the way it works it is pretty much up to the farmers if they want to enroll or can afford to. But the start was strictly to take acres out of production since we had more grain than we could use. But it was to be a temporary program and now with prices up because we have a shorter supply you are seeing many acres coming out of the program since the government can't pay enough to keep it in. So now the emphasis is on filter strips and such to help control erosion which is a good program and they are also trying to enroll wet acres into a wetland program. But the program was strictly between the farmers and the government and some of the wildlife organizations are trying to take a lot more credit than they are due. But if there is something they can do I am all for it but its going to be pretty hard to do much when we need to cut the federal budget and we need the acres for production.

Ezzy

[ymepointer]

Anyone familar with this group? Used to be part of Quail Unlimited I beleive

http://quailcoalition.org/

[RoostersMom]

Ezzy,

You are right that in the beginning, CRP was just a crop reduction and erosion control program. Not anymore. I know I'm new, but it's delusional to think that the gov't just all of the sudden, decided that "oh yeah" in this recession, when we said we were not going to add new acres to CRP.... and then they had meetings with the quail and pheasant folks, then there was a fly-in to D.C.,by said quail and pheasant folks from their districts, THEN USDA agreed to hold Listening Sessions because of this.... and then they changed their tune from no CRP signup to having two in a 8 month span.... that shows me exactly who was behind this most recent (and the last) signup.

What about CP33 - that was TOTALLY a program developed by the folks working on the NBCI (National Bobwhite Conservation Initiative) AND I mean we totally developed it, sold it to FSA and are helping sell it in our respective states.

What about CP38 - the SAFE program (State Acres for Wildlife), that is a newer program developed TOTALLY by PF/QF biologists, brought to FSA and USDA by QF and PF .... and now working as excellent quality bird habitat.

Yes, the landowners own the ground, but it is organizations like QF and PF that are making these programs a viable alternative for the producer ---- who do you think sits on your state's technical committee? PF and QF biologists among other conservation groups. Who is pushing for higher rental rate payments for programs like filter strips and CRP? That would be these organizations.

So I beg to disagree with you here - and I'm speaking as a person that sits on the USDA committees, travels to D.C. and helps landowners enroll in these programs on the ground here. We are making a difference, we are getting more acres for wildlife .... and it would NOT happen without our work on this, there are too many competing interests. The two programs I mentioned would NEVER have been available for landowners if not for the conservationists working on it.

[Vonzeppelinkennels]

IMO the ODNR has been part of the problem on depleting the Quail population here in Ohio.
The actually trapped birds from the S Western & lower S Central part of the state & replanted them above I 70 which is in the snow belt of Ohio & never was a stronghold
for Bobwhite Quail.Now tell me how that works.

[mcclinj]

There was actually a whole article in last months Delta Waterfowl magazine about how competition (in this case with DU) breeds innovation and produces better outcomes for all involved. It seems likely that the same would hold true with Quail conservation orgs.

-John

[ezzy333]

Ezzy,

You are right that in the beginning, CRP was just a crop reduction and erosion control program. Not anymore. I know I'm new, but it's delusional to think that the gov't just all of the sudden, decided that "oh yeah" in this recession, when we said we were not going to add new acres to CRP.... and then they had meetings with the quail and pheasant folks, then there was a fly-in to D.C.,by said quail and pheasant folks from their districts, THEN USDA agreed to hold Listening Sessions because of this.... and then they changed their tune from no CRP signup to having two in a 8 month span.... that shows me exactly who was behind this most recent (and the last) signup.

What about CP33 - that was TOTALLY a program developed by the folks working on the NBCI (National Bobwhite Conservation Initiative) AND I mean we totally developed it, sold it to FSA and are helping sell it in our respective states.

What about CP38 - the SAFE program (State Acres for Wildlife), that is a newer program developed TOTALLY by PF/QF biologists, brought to FSA and USDA by QF and PF .... and now working as excellent quality bird habitat.

Yes, the landowners own the ground, but it is organizations like QF and PF that are making these programs a viable alternative for the producer ---- who do you think sits on your state's technical committee? PF and QF biologists among other conservation groups. Who is pushing for higher rental rate payments for programs like filter strips and CRP? That would be these organizations.

So I beg to disagree with you here - and I'm speaking as a person that sits on the USDA committees, travels to D.C. and helps landowners enroll in these programs on the ground here. We are making a difference, we are getting more acres for wildlife .... and it would NOT happen without our work on this, there are too many competing interests. The two programs I mentioned would NEVER have been available for landowners if not for the conservationists working on it.

But the program is still the farmer setting a price for what he will rent them the ground for and if the FSA thinks it is too high they won't accept it. So no new acres even though the plan is available. Also no one can sign up unless they have a crop history over the last five years. IN OTHER WORDS IF IT IS ALL READY IN CLOVER AND HASN'T RAISED A CROP IN THE PAST FIVE YEARS IT ISN'T ELIGABLE TO BE SIGNED UP.

[Cajun Casey]

From Pheasant Fest:

USDA Secretary Vilsack Announces New CRP Signup at Pheasant Fest
Pheasants Forever also Celebrates 3 Million Acres of Habitat Improvements in Nebraska

For the second year in a row, U.S. Ag Secretary Tom Vilsack announced a CRP general signup at Pheasant Fest.
Omaha, Neb. - January 28 -
Today at Pheasants Forever's National Pheasant Fest, USDA Secretary Tom Vilsack announced plans for a new Conservation Reserve Program (CRP) general signup. The last two CRP general signups have been announced by the Secretary in conjunction with Pheasants Forever's signature event.

The Secretary acknowledged Pheasant Fest as a fitting place to celebrate CRP during the program's 25th year and remarked on CRP's importance to farmers, ranchers, wildlife, hunters and everyone concerned about America's soils and water quality. He said the 2011 CRP general signup would occur from March 14 to April 15 targeting up to 4 million acres for acceptance. The Secretary reiterated the importance of keeping CRP near its 32 million acre cap (approximately 31 million acres are currently enrolled).

"Over the past 25 years, support for CRP has grown thanks to strong backing from partners like Pheasants Forever, farmers, ranchers, conservationists, hunters, fishermen and other outdoor sports enthusiasts," said Vilsack. "Not only has CRP contributed to the national effort to improve water and air quality, it has preserved habitat for wildlife, and prevented soil erosion by protecting the most sensitive areas including those prone to flash flooding and runoff. Today’s announcement continues the Obama Administration’s effort to conserve sensitive areas and improve wildlife habitat."

Vilsack made the announcement from the Pheasant Fest show floor blanketed by a contingent of Nebraska Pheasants Forever members and landowners that had gathered to celebrate Pheasants Forever's 3 million acres of wildlife habitat improvements in the state. Such habitat success wouldn't have been possible without CRP, as the program has allowed Pheasants Forever to impact habitat planning (Pheasants Forever employs nine Farm Bill Wildlife Biologists in Nebraska that work with private landowners to enroll them in conservation programs), implementation (Pheasants Forever supplies CRP grass seed mixes and seed drills), management (Pheasants Forever helps with prescribed burning to rejuvenate old grasslands) and even hunting (CRP-MAP is a program with Pheasants Forever and the Nebraska Game and Parks Commission that improves habitat while providing statewide public access for walk-in hunting).

"It's been a great day for the birds," remarked Howard Vincent, President and CEO of Pheasants Forever & Quail Forever. "On the day we thank the chapters, agency partners, and landowners of Nebraska for reaching the three million acre milestone, Secretary Vilsack joins us with news that will help create millions more acres of habitat next year through CRP. We are very pleased."

"The recipe to three million acres of habitat improvements has been dedicated volunteers and stalwart partners," explained Pete Berthelsen, Pheasants Forever Senior Field Coordinator and the organization's primary representative for Nebraska since 1991. "A new CRP general signup will allow that dedication to start on the next 3 million acres."

Last February at Pheasant Fest in Des Moines, the Secretary announced the first CRP general signup since 2006 and also reallocated new acres into practices targeting habitat improvements for quail, ducks and state-specific wildlife initiatives. Last summer, the USDA accepted 4.3 million acres worth of new CRP contracts from the 4.8 million acres offered during the 27-day signup period.

Anthony Hauck (651) 209-4972 AHauck@pheasantsforever.org

[big steve46]

All efforts to improve quail habitat are important, and we need to do more. However, the need to investigate farm chemical's effect on reproduction seems to be mostly ignored. The effect of predators and nestrobbers don't seem to get investigated much. I realize all these factors are interrelated, but I daresay the grants for research are directed in ways not to offend certain groups, which is why they only concentrate on habitat.

[southernblues]

But the program is still the farmer setting a price for what he will rent them the ground for and if the FSA thinks it is too high they won't accept it. So no new acres even though the plan is available. Also no one can sign up unless they have a crop history over the last five years. IN OTHER WORDS IF IT IS ALL READY IN CLOVER AND HASN'T RAISED A CROP IN THE PAST FIVE YEARS IT ISN'T ELIGABLE TO BE SIGNED UP.

Incorrect. The price is set by FSA based on soil types. Farmer does NOT set the price. I am enrolling in CP38 right now as we speak. Waiting for the GPS maps to come back with accurate acreage allotted so we can sign contracts, get my UP FRONT incentive payment ($100 per acre), calculate the rental payment (based on soil types/avg) and then start the plan...AND then reimburse for cost share which ends up being 85-90% of cost to turn this tillable in acreage.

The buffer strips are awesome as we can square off point rows, convert poor soil back into grasses and help prevent erosion of topsoil in areas where runoff or terracing is a problem. In addition, the family we rent our land out to has huge equipment and each fall after they chisel, it seems the chisel keeps grabbing another foot or two along the edges of the fields which will definitely hurt wildlife....this way they CAN'T touch the CRP/buffer.

To your second point- you are correct, you cannot enroll clover or other land that is already in grasses into buffer strips (it wouldn't be a buffer). If you have existing clover or grassland that you want to develop into better quail habitat then look at other programs such as WHIP.

[southernblues]

here is my cp38 plan. sorry for hijacking -- will start another thread

[ezzy333]

Incorrect. The price is set by FSA based on soil types. Farmer does NOT set the price.

That is true. They have a max. that they will pay so if you can't get along with that price or less there is no need to sign up. But then they iake the acres the farmers have bid in at the lowest price per acre. In other words if I want 200 and acre and you want 175 they will take all of your land before they will touch mine. And once the money runs out the program is over. As a result of these policies CRP may be offered in one country and not the next as there is not enough money to go around.

I am not saying this is a bad policy but just how it works. We have a whole farm that we have been raising hay off of and we can't enroll it so whatever we do we have to do it on our own. Of course we could plow everything up and raise corn or beans on it for five years but we might not have much soil left by then. But that is the way the cookie crumbles so we are trying to do what we can when we have the money available. But the last two years now we have had no income off of it so things will be pretty tight again for a few years.

Ezzy

[RoostersMom]

For general CRP, thats not how it works. Yes, you can bid lower, ie. take a lower payment than what your soil rate is, but that rate only gains you a certain amount of points. The EBI, or environmental benefits index is an index of all your points you can gain (one of them is gaining points by offering a lower price per acre - but that is only one consideration). Here in MO, there are quail priority geographies (guess who set those... that would be the state committee - of which QF has a seat) and you get extra points for being in the priority area, you get extra points for planting a diverse mix of grasses and wildflowers, you get extra points for planting pollinator habitat.... etc, etc. Lowering your offer for the acres is not likely to get you enough extra points to make it worthwhile - you'd do better by planting a high quality grass/forb mixture. In the past several signups, we haven't had "wildlife friendly" contracts get passed over because they didn't bid in at a lower rate - and we don't recommend that landowners bid lower - they get more points, sure, but not usually enough to matter. If they max out on the environmental benefits, then they generally get in. There are some "unknown" quantities, like size of tract offered and some National points awarded, but mostly, if you're doing the right thing for wildlife, you won't need to reduce your offering price.

[ezzy333]

For general CRP, thats not how it works. Yes, you can bid lower, ie. take a lower payment than what your soil rate is, but that rate only gains you a certain amount of points. The EBI, or environmental benefits index is an index of all your points you can gain (one of them is gaining points by offering a lower price per acre - but that is only one consideration). Here in MO, there are quail priority geographies (guess who set those... that would be the state committee - of which QF has a seat) and you get extra points for being in the priority area, you get extra points for planting a diverse mix of grasses and wildflowers, you get extra points for planting pollinator habitat.... etc, etc. Lowering your offer for the acres is not likely to get you enough extra points to make it worthwhile - you'd do better by planting a high quality grass/forb mixture. In the past several signups, we haven't had "wildlife friendly" contracts get passed over because they didn't bid in at a lower rate - and we don't recommend that landowners bid lower - they get more points, sure, but not usually enough to matter. If they max out on the environmental benefits, then they generally get in. There are some "unknown" quantities, like size of tract offered and some National points awarded, but mostly, if you're doing the right thing for wildlife, you won't need to reduce your offering price.

That sounds like the MO program and not the federal plan.

Ezzy

[Cajun Casey]

Buffers for bees?

[RoostersMom]

Ezzy,

The quail focal areas are unique to Missouri - but some other states have similar geographies that they have identified, for example in IL, there were many counties labeled "quail counties" for CP33 signup.

All the rest of the stuff that I mentioned about CRP is Nationwide. The scoring for CRP is national, not regional, so you're competing against all other states as well as individuals in your area.

Cajun,

Buffers for Bees indeed. Pollinators are having a really hard time of it... and good bee and butterfly habitat=good quail habitat. We'll take anything we can get, from anyone that will give it to us.


If anyone has a genuine interest in learning more about the CRP signups, PF and QF are holding multiple meeting in most states about how you can improve your score and get into CRP if that's what you want. We held 8 here in MO for the last signup - nationally QF/PF held over 100 meetings for landowners/producers.

[Cajun Casey]

The Oklahoma Wildlife Department can't seem to get their bobwhite initiative off the ground. Sad, because we were once one of the greatest bobwhite states around and have a long legacy of great field trial dogs, too. We don't have the pheasant lure that Kansas and South Dakota have, so we are pretty much just drifting on upland right now. Except for Sutton and their fence tagging for prairie chickens!

[CowboyBirdDogs]

I was a member of QU for a while. It will take a LONG time to gain my trust again, seems like all they were interested in is Georgia Plantation Celebrity Quail hunts and banquets. Quail Coalition is compiled of the Texas Chapters of QU. I haven't joined them yet, or heard much about them aside from the fact that they got $3 million for Dale Robbins and his research program. PF is doing something right for sure, I plan on becoming a member asap. I can only hope and pray that QF follows and is just as successful. Texas used to be the place to go for covey on top of covey quail hunting, it's been reduced to zilch. Does PF or QF have any chapters in Texas? Or more specifically the DFW area? There are a lot of guys around here that travel to many different states to hunt pheasant and other game birds.

[Cajun Casey]

I was a member of QU for a while. It will take a LONG time to gain my trust again, seems like all they were interested in is Georgia Plantation Celebrity Quail hunts and banquets. Quail Coalition is compiled of the Texas Chapters of QU. I haven't joined them yet, or heard much about them aside from the fact that they got $3 million for Dale Robbins and his research program. PF is doing something right for sure, I plan on becoming a member asap. I can only hope and pray that QF follows and is just as successful. Texas used to be the place to go for covey on top of covey quail hunting, it's been reduced to zilch. Does PF or QF have any chapters in Texas? Or more specifically the DFW area? There are a lot of guys around here that travel to many different states to hunt pheasant and other game birds.

Quail Forever is Pheasants Forever, under its own organization. Here's the Texas chapters. If you can't join a local, then join through the national.

http://quailforever.org/page/1/FindaCha ... p?state=TX

By the way, you might want to read Aldo Leopold's A Sand County Almanac. Much of the philosophy of conservation organizations begins there.