Minnesota Financial Woes Could Impact Hunters

[Cajun Casey]

Hopefully they can work this out.

http://www.startribune.com/politics/sta ... 41078.html

[Sharon]

Why are they shutting down? ( I'm in Canada.)

[dan v]

Just further fear mongering by the Star & Sickle, or The Red Star.

[Sue]

Why are they shutting down? ( I'm in Canada.)

Huge arguments in many states lately about the cost of government... taxes and spending... how much of each... the arguments can result in gridlock, no funding for government, and thus shut down of all government services.

Sigh...

The biggest example of this right now... if the US congress does not come to an agreement so the debt ceiling can be raised, the US govt. will default on all its loans. The repercussions of that event will make small things like not being able to get a hunting license, seem like very minor inconveniences.

Can we say "destabilize the stock market, possible currency collapse, and watch your pension funds and retirement savings go poof!"

[baileydog2007]

Political bickering over how to balance the budget. They have 3.5 days.

As far as impacting those over the 4th of July that have not yet purchased a license for fishing, in a lock out, I dont think Game Wardens are considered "essential personell". Just sayin..............

[MN Bonasa]

The Republicans want to spend the money their way - Governor Dayton wants to spend it his way.

This shutdown has a direct effect on my job since I work in the Road Const industry. Alot of major projects are being put on hold and contractors are cancelling any new projects. This is the time of year that " I MAKE HAY " so with less work = less hours = less pay.

Good thing I already have my small game license, I would be shocked if this shutdown lasts more than a few weeks but I could be wrong!

[baileydog2007]

The Republicans want to spend the money their way - Governor Dayton wants to spend it his way.

This shutdown has a direct effect on my job since I work in the Road Const industry. Alot of major projects are being put on hold and contractors are cancelling any new projects. This is the time of year that " I MAKE HAY " so with less work = less hours = less pay.

Good thing I already have my small game license, I would be shocked if this shutdown lasts more than a few weeks but I could be wrong!

I agree. I work for a City in MN, I think the shut down will happen, but will be relatively short lived. The shut down benefits no one, and solves nothing. Its a political move that makes a bad situation, worse. But you cant tell that to a politician.

[nikegundog]

As stated previously political bs and the Star Tribune blowing things up. The chances of deer and duck hunting being closed down is 0, and the Tribune know it.

[ezzy333]

Why are they shutting down? ( I'm in Canada.)

Huge arguments in many states lately about the cost of government... taxes and spending... how much of each... the arguments can result in gridlock, no funding for government, and thus shut down of all government services.

Sigh...

The biggest example of this right now... if the US congress does not come to an agreement so the debt ceiling can be raised, the US govt. will default on all its loans. The repercussions of that event will make small things like not being able to get a hunting license, seem like very minor inconveniences.

Can we say "destabilize the stock market, possible currency collapse, and watch your pension funds and retirement savings go poof!"

This is the propaganda put out by the government but none of that is likely to happen. It does mean that the government would have to close some of it services and possibly some agencies. But they would still pay the military, social security, and medicare. Without a doubt the markets would be hurt a little but it wouldn't be the catastrophic they are trying to convince you of.

Ezzy

[baileydog2007]

As stated previously political bs and the Star Tribune blowing things up. The chances of deer and duck hunting being closed down is 0, and the Tribune know it.

Exactly. They like to sensationalize. If they think they have a budget problem now, cancel a few hunting/fishing seasons. LOL, that'll fix the problem..............

[Cajun Casey]

Or, the Feds could come in and run it.....

Original article was posted on The Upland Almanac's Twitter feed, for those who wish to follow.

[Sharon]

Why are they shutting down? ( I'm in Canada.)

Huge arguments in many states lately about the cost of government... taxes and spending... how much of each... the arguments can result in gridlock, no funding for government, and thus shut down of all government services.

Sigh...

The biggest example of this right now... if the US congress does not come to an agreement so the debt ceiling can be raised, the US govt. will default on all its loans. The repercussions of that event will make small things like not being able to get a hunting license, seem like very minor inconveniences.

.........................................................
Can we say "destabilize the stock market, possible currency collapse, and watch your pension funds and retirement savings go poof!"

This is the propaganda put out by the government but none of that is likely to happen. It does mean that the government would have to close some of it services and possibly some agencies. But they would still pay the military, social security, and medicare. Without a doubt the markets would be hurt a little but it wouldn't be the catastrophic they are trying to convince you of.

.......................................

Thank you . ( The Canadian Govt. just legislated Canada Post back to work here.)

Ezzy

[Sharon]

Why are they shutting down? ( I'm in Canada.)

Huge arguments in many states lately about the cost of government... taxes and spending... how much of each... the arguments can result in gridlock, no funding for government, and thus shut down of all government services.

Sigh...

The biggest example of this right now... if the US congress does not come to an agreement so the debt ceiling can be raised, the US govt. will default on all its loans. The repercussions of that event will make small things like not being able to get a hunting license, seem like very minor inconveniences.

.........................................................
Can we say "destabilize the stock market, possible currency collapse, and watch your pension funds and retirement savings go poof!"

This is the propaganda put out by the government but none of that is likely to happen. It does mean that the government would have to close some of it services and possibly some agencies. But they would still pay the military, social security, and medicare. Without a doubt the markets would be hurt a little but it wouldn't be the catastrophic they are trying to convince you of.

Ezzy[/quote]

.......................................

Thank you . ( The Canadian Govt. just legislated Canada Post back to work here.)

[Sue]

This is the propaganda put out by the government but none of that is likely to happen. It does mean that the government would have to close some of it services and possibly some agencies. But they would still pay the military, social security, and medicare. Without a doubt the markets would be hurt a little but it wouldn't be the catastrophic they are trying to convince you of.

Ezzy

Wanna find out?

http://www.examiner.com/political-buzz- ... to-default

http://www.davemanuel.com/what-would-ha ... s-debt-96/

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/b72e3018-9e97 ... ftcamp=rss

[OUBobcat06]

Just saw the Minnesota Government shut down... hope they can get this worked our for you guys up there soon... Things aren't looking much better here in Ohio...

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/43608137/ns ... _politics/

[ezzy333]

This is the propaganda put out by the government but none of that is likely to happen. It does mean that the government would have to close some of it services and possibly some agencies. But they would still pay the military, social security, and medicare. Without a doubt the markets would be hurt a little but it wouldn't be the catastrophic they are trying to convince you of.

Ezzy

Wanna find out?

http://www.examiner.com/political-buzz- ... to-default

http://www.davemanuel.com/what-would-ha ... s-debt-96/

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/b72e3018-9e97 ... ftcamp=rss

Yep I sure do if the alternative is raising taxes and not cutting spending. Whatever happens will be minor compared to what is going to happen if we don't.

Ezzy

[Sue]

This is the propaganda put out by the government but none of that is likely to happen. It does mean that the government would have to close some of it services and possibly some agencies. But they would still pay the military, social security, and medicare. Without a doubt the markets would be hurt a little but it wouldn't be the catastrophic they are trying to convince you of.

Ezzy

Wanna find out?

http://www.examiner.com/political-buzz- ... to-default

http://www.davemanuel.com/what-would-ha ... s-debt-96/

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/b72e3018-9e97 ... ftcamp=rss

Yep I sure do if the alternative is raising taxes and not cutting spending. Whatever happens will be minor compared to what is going to happen if we don't.

Ezzy

TBH, I have no idea what the answers are. I read stuff like this and wonder how we possibly get out of the pickle we are in.

http://ourfiniteworld.com/2011/04/08/wh ... -problems/

[nikegundog]

Thought I would update the thread. For 2 Weeks all (22,000 non-essential employees) were laid off, state parks, state lottery among other state agencies were closed and both the both sides of the issue refused to even meet, UNTIL it was announced that Miller/Coors would be pulled from the shelves because their license problem that couldn't get resolved. The next day both parties worked through the night and reached a deal. The shut down was ended because of beer, god bless beer.

[original mngsp]

I'm sure state employees weren't whining. They got unemployment and a extended vacation.

Howie

Im not a supporter of the governor, big expensive government, whinny public employees, or the dumbasses in this state that keep things headed down this crappy highway. But I do have to let you know that the my neighbor is a MnDot worker and he told me that they couldnt collect unemployment benefits until after 2 weeks of the government shutdown. Until then it was classified as a "temporary work interruption". I was appalled in talking with him how much BS is fed to these guys from AFSCME and other labor unions, how little understanding of fiscal policy there is, and absolutely how there is no view of "the big picture" that leads to these kinds of problems.

As long as so many people keep eating that "government cheese" this state and country is headed for disaster in the future.

[dan v]

The shut down was ended because of beer, god bless beer.

Beer is proof that God loves us, and wants us to be happy.

[A/C Guy]

Why are they shutting down? ( I'm in Canada.)

Huge arguments in many states lately about the cost of government... taxes and spending... how much of each... the arguments can result in gridlock, no funding for government, and thus shut down of all government services.

Sigh...

The biggest example of this right now... if the US congress does not come to an agreement so the debt ceiling can be raised, the US govt. will default on all its loans. The repercussions of that event will make small things like not being able to get a hunting license, seem like very minor inconveniences.

Can we say "destabilize the stock market, possible currency collapse, and watch your pension funds and retirement savings go poof!"

If the House stands firm and we do not raise taxes, the worst that will happen is that all the fear mongering rumor will be proven to be false. The the US voters will see what a fraud the media and politicians have been committing.

[Sue]

If the House stands firm and we do not raise taxes, the worst that will happen is that all the fear mongering rumor will be proven to be false. The the US voters will see what a fraud the media and politicians have been committing.

Looks increasingly likely we'll get to find out what happens.
Sure hope you are right!

[Sue]

Well, I was pretty happy with the compromise the congress/president finally settled on, but looks like things are going to heck anyway...

sigh...

[ezzy333]

Well, I was pretty happy with the compromise the congress/president finally settled on, but looks like things are going to heck anyway...

sigh...

I don't think anyway but more likely because of. It was a joke in reality.

Ezzy

[Sue]

Well, I was pretty happy with the compromise the congress/president finally settled on, but looks like things are going to heck anyway...

sigh...

I don't think anyway but more likely because of. It was a joke in reality.

Ezzy

Well, yeah, the whole mess is pretty unsolvable. Yes, spending is out of control, and the "compromise" was simply a small cut in the rate of increase in spending! Yes, a joke in that sense! I would have loved to see a bigger bite taken out of the debt/deficit issue, including closing tax loopholes on the oil companies.

I might just add that if we really want to cut spending, we are going to have to take a whack at the big ticket items: social security, medicare, medicaid, defense. I'm all for it, but there are big forces fighting against cutting each of those.

Of course we could not have defaulted on our debt... essentially "declare bankruptcy" and not suffer some huge consequences, so that was not a long term option. Playing "chicken" with the date of default was one thing, but deciding never to pay our "mortgage" is not any more realistic for a nation than for any of us.

The economy is in a huge slump and no way to fix it anytime soon. Stopping government spending won't create jobs, at least not quickly. Government spending might create a few jobs for a while (fixing roads etc) but will increase debt, so makes that problem worse and leads to a worse catastrophe in the future.

Without jobs, people won't buy stuff, 'cause they don't have spare money. Without people buying stuff, there are no jobs making stuff. It's catch .22.

Ultimately, the problem, I believe, is we are reaching peak oil. Oil prices go up a bit and folks stop buying stuff, because everything ultimately is either made of oil, or transported by oil (food, goods, transportation). As soon as the economy recovers a little bit, people have a bit of money and buy stuff, which pushes the price of oil up a little (supply/demand) then the higher oil price, puts us back into economic slump.

Here is a great article on all this. http://ourfiniteworld.com/2011/07/26/ho ... al-crisis/

I don't think either party has solutions that will work. The situation is very complicated. Anyone who thinks the answers are simple or quick, probably does not have a full grasp. Its going to be a tough couple of decades as we leave the era of cheap, plentiful fossil fuels. That is what the roaring last 50 years was built on and those times are coming to a close.

[Redfishkilla]

Sue, we can't wish for lower oil prices and, in the same post, wish for more taxes on oil producers here in the USA. If you make it harder for producers to produce here, we (the USA) will just have to buy more from the camel jockeys.

A little math for fun, the "loophole" for oil companies when talked about, is expensing labor to drill the well. The "loophole" they want to close would change the accounting to force the oil producers, (only the big guys, Exxon, BP, Shell, Chevron, COP....), to capitalize and depreciate labor costs. Does any other industry capitalize labor costs? I don't know. By making this change to the 5 or 6 big oil producers the government would take home an extra 2 billion a year. Yeah an extra 2 billion, right? Our deficit this year is 1.4 TRILLION not billion. So if the government changed this "loophole" (expensing labor to capitalizing labor costs) and collected the added tax revenue for 100 years it would cover roughly 2 months of our deficit, not total budget. We can raise taxes in this sorry economy, but the majority of work is going to have to be done by cutting spending. Both parties for too long have made more promises backed by the treasury to get elected than the taxpayers can pay for.

[volraider]

I don't know about Minn but the short answer is to stop punishing production (taxes).Other countries like China reward production. We need to ax the NAFTA and place tariffs on all countries without compariable labor laws. Cut medicare and other entitlements by drug testing. Last but not least guard the oil fields in Irag until they reimburse us for the Iraqi war. Place the national guard on borders and stop the free flow of drugs into our country.

My soap box

Brian

[Sue]

Redfish,
Yeah, I agree, there is not one simple answer. Taxes on oil companies won't help much with the deficit, and as you mention, come with their own downside. The same sorts of arguments can be made for every suggestion of how to cut the deficit.

To be clear, I'm actually not "for" cheap oil. We have a climate crisis too, so we need to get off oil anyway. You guys in the midwest and Texas are experiencing that quite clearly right now. You can dispute that if you want, and I know some folks call it a hoax, but the Planet doesn't care what we THINK is happening, or what we believe... you or me. We don't get a vote on this. Its Physics, not Politics. Increasing greenhouse gases by 40% in the last 100 years is having a measurable effect.

All I'm saying is there are no easy answers, and tough times are ahead, no matter what. No one is going to fix this. Not Obama, not Boehner, not Rick Perry, not Michelle Bachman or Mitt Romney. Ultimately the problem is we are using 1.3 planets of resources, and burning fossil sunlight. Its biology. We have surpassed the Carrying Capacity of the planet (the way we are using it) and many things are going to change. I believe we are starting to see the effects. Other opinions may vary.

"Interesting" times ahead.

[Sue]

I don't know about Minn but the short answer is to stop punishing production (taxes).Other countries like China reward production. We need to ax the NAFTA and place tariffs on all countries without compariable labor laws. Cut medicare and other entitlements by drug testing. Last but not least guard the oil fields in Irag until they reimburse us for the Iraqi war. Place the national guard on borders and stop the free flow of drugs into our country.

My soap box

Brian

Some good ideas here but I doubt even if all your ideas were enacted fully, that the US economy, much less the global economy, would change at all.

Let's say we gave bigger tax breaks to oil companies, stopped giving health care to folks abusing drugs, stopped all drugs coming into the USA, and took all the Iraqi oil for ourelves... what's your math and / or logic on how those things would create jobs here and improve the economy?

I understand your frustrations, but I don't follow your cause - and - effect reasoning....

[volraider]

The big oil companies are not the enemy, OPEC and foreign oil companies are the enemy’s. The more domestic oil we produce the cheaper it becomes. The current administration has cut thousands of jobs in the gulf with the oil drilling ban. There is a way drilling can be done in Anwar that could benefit wildlife. Clean coal technology and coal mining can create a lot of really good paying jobs.
People who abuse drugs would either come clean or would eventually face the consequences of their choices. We house, feed, and buy them drugs while they continue to abuse, commit crimes, and set on their butts day in and day out. Drive thru the projects and see what’s going on. Drug addicts are not working at fast food joints trying to get by, they are out stealing trying to pay for their habits.
If we get rid of NAFTA and start charging tariffs on imports from countries like China it would bring back the factories and give them a fighting chance at competing. The guys in D.C. are getting rich off NAFTA and that’s why will not see it changed.
Round up the illegals and send them back to their countries. Their jobs will be filled by the recovering addicts who choose to live and be a productive member of society. As people recover from their addictions these type of entry level jobs would work well for them.

Set the Iraq up on a payment plan. We pay our debts to China then Iraq can pay their debt to us.

Only if I were king for a day!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Ha!Ha!

[Sue]

OK Brian!
Sounds good, although I'm not sure the math would back up the hypothesis, in terms of outcomes... I know what you mean about being "king for a day" though. There are many things I would do if I had my "magic wand" I always wish for as well!
Sue