New Dog Owner

[DogNewbie]

Hello,

I am in the process of looking for my first dog. I am 24 years old, and a grouse and pheasant hunter. I'm interested in either a German Wirehaired Pointer or a Wiredhaired Pointing Griffon. I have zero experience buying dogs so I was wondering if anyone had any advice for me. Even down to the very basics of buying a dog, i.e. timeline, avg cost, what to look for/watch out for in a breeder. I've noticed a difference in price of dogs from gun dog breeders verses non gun dog breeders. How much of the extra cost is for training? If a dog stays/trains at a kennel for a longer period does the price increase dramatically? I am interested in training the dog myself, but I do live in a residential area so getting the dog accustomed to gun fire and familiar with birds would be more of a weekend thing than a daily one. Is that a major disadvantage and would it be worth a little more cash to have a breeder start that process for me. Sorry if this a bit of a ramble. Thanks in advance for the help!

Tim

[Greg Jennings]

Welcome to GDF!

[displaced_texan]

I have owned and trained dogs that were good dogs and lived their entire lives in town. One of the best dogs I've ever hunted over spent it's first year in an apartment due to a divorce...

I wouldn't worry about price of the pup much, it's a drop in the bucket of the cost of ownership of a dog. Pick a breeding you like and just suck it up and pay it. (I know that's easier said than done!)

[DogNewbie]

Thanks for the quick responses. So, in your opinion, the main difference between a $600 dog and a $2000 dog of the same breed is simply the time put into training by the breeder? Also, I hate have to focus so much on the financial aspect of the dog, but being fresh out of college and trying to pay back student loans/pay rent/insurance/living in the real world, I need to know I can take care of the dog as well. I'm thinking about $100/month for food/ misc dog needs? I don't want to go into this without a realistic idea of total initial cost/monthly cost and find myself having to get rid of the dog. If the main difference between a $600 and $2000 dog is the amount of time I have to spend training it I'll take the cheaper dog. BTW, for those breeds I mentioned I kinda pulled the smaller figure outta the air. Is $600 even a realistic figure? Again, sorry for having to focus on the money side of things but I want to make sure I'm being realistic. Thanks!

Tim

[High Voltage]

You should check out NAVHDA, there are several chapters in Minnesota. Go to http://www.navhda.org/ under membership & chapters there is a chapter locater to find one close to you. You can go check out a training day, watch the dogs work and talk to people who have the breeds you are looking at. I have seen people spend $100's more on a dog then someone else with the same breed but it wasn't as good as a dog. Higher price does not always = better dog IMHO.

[Prairie Hunter]

Usually the difference between a $600 puppy and a $2000 puppy is breeding. Breeders that have put a lot of time, effort, and money into developing their breeding program, and campaigning and testing their dogs, will usually charge more for them. But, a high price does not guarantee you will get the kind of dog you want. My recommendation would be to decide on a breed first, then do a lot of research. Talk to people that own that breed. Decide what characteristics you want and don’t want in your dog. Talk to breeders about their dogs to see if their dogs meet your requirements. As you narrow down your selection of breeders, talk to people that own dogs produced by that breeder. If possible, go take a look at the breeder’s dogs, and see them in the field for yourself. I would travel across the country to look at dogs if I was interested, but was unfamiliar with those lines. As someone else said, the cost of the puppy is a drop in the bucket compared to the total cost of ownership over that dog’s lifetime. A dog is, or at least should be, a long term investment. The more research you do, the better the chance you will get a dog you’ll be happy with for years to come.

As far as living in the city with a bird dog, that is not a problem. I have always lived in the city, and I have been fortunate enough to own some pretty good dogs. You don’t need to have your dog on birds daily to end up with a good dog. In fact, I believe the more contact you have with your dog, the greater the bond, and the greater the bond, the more the dog will want to work with you. You don’t need to put your dog on birds every day to have it become a good bird dog. If you can put it on birds on the weekends, have a good training plan, and be consistent with your training, you will most likely end up with a good dog. If you don’t know much about training, invest in some good training videos. You might also want to consider joining a local NAVHDA Chap. There are usually several knowledgeable trainers in the chapters that will be willing to help you.

[Greg Jennings]

I've never seen a $2,000 puppy that wasn't some kind of rare breed. $300 to $1,200, yeah.

$2,000 or more would, in my mind, be a "Started Dog" and would be a year or more old.

[DogNewbie]

Awesome. Very helpful feed back. I'll definitely check out that NAVHDA site. It'd be nice to have some training guidance. Any suggestions for good basic dog training books? I'd take suggestions for gun dog training books as well now that I think about it!

Thanks!
Tim

[kevinpowellbrittanys]

Have you thought about a Brittany? They can be excellent bird hunters and family dogs. I have 3 pups left posted on the for sale forum. A sister of these pups is in Minnesota near St. Paul. One female is in Montana, with brothers in Missouri and Cedar Rapids, Iowa. The dam bloodlines are from the Maverick line in Minnesota and bred by Dave Anderson of Maple River Kennels. Great dispositions and super hunters!

[DogNewbie]

I did consider a brittany since both breeds are in a similar price range, but when it came down to it I just love the look of a GWP.

My landlord is a little worried about his wood floors getting damaged buy a dog. Anyone have any suggestions for preventing this? I've looked into getting a dremel to help keep the dogs nails short and smooth, and the dog would be kenneled during the day so any accidents wont stain the wood, but I'm curious as to any other methods that people use.

Thanks!

Tim

[DogNewbie]

Are there any GWP owners out there that kennel their dog all day? I've read they aren't very good kennel dogs.

[Ryman Gun Dog]

DogNewbie,
Welcome to the Gun Dog Forum, hope you like it here. The dogs you are interested in are both Versatile hunting dogs, so the NAVHDA is a good place to start.
Some things to look for are these, A reputable breeder with a proven repetative breed line who guarantees his animals, for both heath and hunting genetic imprint.
Repetative HD documentation, and recommendations from other owners. Planning to train your self is a great way to bond with your 1st animal, you are going to make some mistakes with your 1st gun dog, so try to keep them to a minimum, if possible acquire a good training mentor. You might want to check out the Silent training method by the Smith brothers also. Good luck with your purchase and happy hunting!
RGD/Dave

[Sharon]

I did consider a brittany since both breeds are in a similar price range, but when it came down to it I just love the look of a GWP.

My landlord is a little worried about his wood floors getting damaged buy a dog. Anyone have any suggestions for preventing this? I've looked into getting a dremel to help keep the dogs nails short and smooth, and the dog would be kenneled during the day so any accidents wont stain the wood, but I'm curious as to any other methods that people use.

Thanks!

Tim

Are the hardwood floors varathaned? Mine are and 3 dogs haven't left a mark . Personally I don't think a dog should be crated more than 5 hours before being allowed out.If you are gone from 8-5+ hours you really need someone to come in a lunch and give the dog some exercise/pee break. jmo
If he will be in an outdoor kennel, the neighbors will tell you if he barks all day. A no bark collar may be needed.

PS Puppies need their daily caloric allotment, divided into 2-3 meals a day.

Water drops is a hardwood floors worst enemy.

[DogNewbie]

Yeah, I'm planning on going home everyday for lunch so the little guy can get out for a bit. Good to know about the meals as well. I'm not sure what the floors are. I'm just the renter so..

[mcbosco]

Woo Doggy....you are renting? Any yard? Apartment or House?

The wirehaired dogs are not the best kennel dogs....the Griffs & Spinone are definetly not for a kennel. They are clingy and like to be with people.

[DogNewbie]

renting a house with a fenced yard. I'm planning on giving him a rigorous workout in the morning, letting him out at lunch, and then either walking him or do some training after work. You think that's a realistic solution to him being in a kennel during the day? Or am I kidding myself here?

[mcbosco]

Honestly?

[DogNewbie]

honesty is always appreciated!

[mcbosco]

I think without someone home, it is just hard with a pup. Maybe a grown up Lab would be a better choice. The seem to get along ok kenneled and are calm enough. The Griff is a relatively calm dog, but owners tell me they are similar to Spinones, where they like being around people. Not that you can't leave them and go out, but all day, every day and especially a pup.

[DogNewbie]

I guess I could do a daycare thing a couple times a week as well. Might not be a bad choice for early on

[Debf]

I think that if you're only going to kennel the dog while you're at work it isn't a big deal. We always do that with our dogs (DD/GWP) until they are old enough to be trusted in the house. Kenneling is only bad if you stick them outside & forget you have a dog until hunting season. Day care is a great option a day or two a week.

If you have time go out to Game Fair this weekend - the GWP club has a booth in the dog tent & can give you more info on the breed. You should also be able to meet a few GWPs and/or Griffons out with their owners. If you notice a bunch of wirehairs calmly lounging around one of the dog food tents...go speak to the owner of the dogs. He's a DD breeder and has some of the calmest, most even tempered dogs around. HOWEVER, don't buy a puppy on impulse out there. The club heard of a bad case of buyers remorse last weekend - within 12 hours the puppy was back with the breeder.

There are many NAVHDA tests coming up locally over the next few weeks and I do know the one at Kelley Farms (Marine on St. Croix area) on Labor Day weekend will have some GWP pups running in NA and I'd be surprised if there weren't a few Grifs also. If you have questions about GWPs or DDs in the Twin Cities area you can find my contact info on the Twin Cities GWP website. I won't pretend to have all the answers but, can usually direct you to people that know quite a bit.

Good luck in your search,

Deb

[Ahumphers91a]

Do your home work on the lines, look around, and get what you want and what you can afford. If you put the time in the dog, you should have a great bird dog regardless. The instinct is bred into these pointing dog's, some training will help with that natural instinct!

Good Luck

[mcbosco]

I think that if you're only going to kennel the dog while you're at work it isn't a big deal. We always do that with our dogs (DD/GWP) until they are old enough to be trusted in the house. Kenneling is only bad if you stick them outside & forget you have a dog until hunting season. Day care is a great option a day or two a week.

If you have time go out to Game Fair this weekend - the GWP club has a booth in the dog tent & can give you more info on the breed. You should also be able to meet a few GWPs and/or Griffons out with their owners. If you notice a bunch of wirehairs calmly lounging around one of the dog food tents...go speak to the owner of the dogs. He's a DD breeder and has some of the calmest, most even tempered dogs around. HOWEVER, don't buy a puppy on impulse out there. The club heard of a bad case of buyers remorse last weekend - within 12 hours the puppy was back with the breeder.

There are many NAVHDA tests coming up locally over the next few weeks and I do know the one at Kelley Farms (Marine on St. Croix area) on Labor Day weekend will have some GWP pups running in NA and I'd be surprised if there weren't a few Grifs also. If you have questions about GWPs or DDs in the Twin Cities area you can find my contact info on the Twin Cities GWP website. I won't pretend to have all the answers but, can usually direct you to people that know quite a bit.

Good luck in your search,

Deb

You would advise kenneling a puppy? Alone? This person doesn't have other dogs around. That is a big deal.

[fuzznut]

Long time GWP owner, and I'll agree with Deb. Wires can be horrible kennel dogs, or ok in the kennel... all according to how you raise them and what their genetics are. Some are fine, others a royal pain in the butt!!

I would suggest you really take the time to meet at least the mother of any possible puppy and spend some time around her. If she is nervous, can't sit still, clingy then this might not be the best bitch to get a puppy from. I do believe seperation anxiety is passed down from sire and dam to the kids.

Look for a nice calm dog, one that is self confident, able to go and lie down, not be on top of you all the time. Ask the owner of the sire and dam about their temperaments and personalities. Take note of what they tell you. A good GWP should be able to turn it off in the house, or during down time.

But, all GWP's need exercise and lot's of it! A walk around the block just ain't gonna cut it. They take considerable amount of patience when they are youngsters, training for the most part needs to be calm but emphatic. No must mean NO! Don't let that cute little fuzzy face fool you......there is a devil hiding in those whiskers!

But when you train them right, make them your best buddy, give them everything they need... and you will never find a more faithful companion or better working dog.

Oh yea, one more thing... you better have a good sense of humor!!! Your dog will!
Fuzz

[DogNewbie]

Great input. Very helpful. Thanks! I was looking into the game fair this weekend, but unfortunately (well and fortunately) my sister and brother in-law are in town and Mom has a full weekend planned...I'm pretty sure she'll disown me if I skipped out for the fair. Again, thanks for the info and advice! This is a great site!

Tim

[Ahumphers91a]

there is a litter of nice shorthairs ready to go, pm me if interested.

[gsps4evr]

Where abouts are you located in Mn? I know a few guys in the Southern Mn Navhda chapter that have Gwp/DDs and there nice dogs. I'm sure they'd be willing to answer questions that you have. Like its been listed go check out some of the tests that are coming up or go to the gamefair if you can sneek away and talk with some of the breeders out there.

[RoostersMom]

If you are getting a pup and working fulltime with nobody there to help out much, I would seriously consider getting a winter/fall puppy. Several of my dogs (Vizsla, EP and GSP) were practically raised in the crate in my vehicle. I took them to work with me and then would give them a Kong or other toy while I was working, then they'd get the 10am break (walk around the area) then the nooner (ha ha) - a full hour of a park right next to the office, then a 3pm break. This won't work if temps aren't good for leaving a dog in the vehicle - or if you're concerned about theft. I managed raising 3 birddogs and 2 beagles this way. All are excellent in the crate and I managed to deal with them, keeping them happy by myself since I didn't have anyone to help with raising them.

I agree heartily with joining a group BEFORE you get a pup. You'll likely find a dog you love and you'll want a pup from that line of dogs - that's how I met my first pointer (NSTRA events I observed at) and my Vizsla (hunted over the parents several times). Spend time looking at and meeting/hunting over dogs that you think you'd like to have - that way you have a really good idea of what you'll be getting from that particular line of dogs. You don't want the attitude, drive, personality to be a suprise when you get a pup - with a good reputable breeder, you should have a pretty good idea of what you're going to end up with.

[DogNewbie]

Hey everyone,

Just wanted to say thanks for all the advise this past week. I made a decision this weekend and went and picked up Briar my new 12 week old GWP! I took Monday and Tuesday off this week to spend time with him and he has been great! He's a very smart and responsive puppy. Last night he finally slept all night so it was nice to catch up on some much needed rest. He's gotten used to walking and running on the leash already and gets really excited every time he sees it come out of the drawer. Today is my first day back at work, so we'll see how that goes for him. Thanks again for all the help!

Tim

[proudag08]

Tim,

Let us know how he does.

[DogNewbie]

Will do! I'll also post some pics once I get around to getting some shots onto my computer! Thanks again!

Tim

[High Voltage]

Can't wait for pics!