Trial cost

Court628 · Post by **Court628** » Thu Sep 08, 2011 7:26 am

I am curious what kind of cost you would be looking at to have a dog with a Pro. For example; a shooting dog with a major handler that hits most of te trials. Basically the guy has your dog all the time.

ElhewPointer · Post by **ElhewPointer** » Thu Sep 08, 2011 9:13 am

$12-$15K a yr. This depends on if the dog is qualified for the National, Masters, Invitational.

Chukar12 · Post by **Chukar12** » Thu Sep 08, 2011 9:17 am

I send my dog north on the western Brittany circuit to the northern trials my schedule doesn't allow me to attend, with a pro and my direct experience is limited to that circuit. Training/handling is usually 400/600 per month, depending on bird costs on the road and a share of the travel expenses. I speculate that AF guys are similar depending on who you get. During trial season with entries I would expect you are looking at $800 to $1200 per month inclusive of entry fees.

ultracarry · Post by **ultracarry** » Thu Sep 08, 2011 9:22 am

Is your dog in OR yet chukar?

I would say 9k to 15k. Depending in the handler, how much they have to work the dog, how much you want to run it, and what level.

Chukar12 · Post by **Chukar12** » Thu Sep 08, 2011 9:24 am

I went to Oregon and handled myself and then sent my male on to Washington, I will pick him up in Boise at the end of the month. I had to come back to work, I wish I had been born rich instead of so darned good looking.

ultracarry · Post by **ultracarry** » Thu Sep 08, 2011 9:31 am

I feel ya. Mine just pulled into mile post 9... good looks only help if your female:(

ElhewPointer · Post by **ElhewPointer** » Thu Sep 08, 2011 9:43 am

Ultra, it doesn't matter how much they have to work your dog. You're gonna get billed the same.

Here's an avg. breakdown for you as you asked for a SD that hits most of the trials with a major handler.

$400ish month for 9 months= almost $4k
avg. of $800ish for entry fees=$7K
summer camp=$1000 to $1500

total= $12k ish

I know one month, I had the National, Invitaional, Southeastern, Masters on one bill. OUCH. National is 500, Inv. is 400, the other 2 are 300 I think. So that month was 1500 for entry fees. Not a fun one. But 3 of those trials you have to be qualified for, so you better go to em if you got a ticket.

Chukar12 · Post by **Chukar12** » Thu Sep 08, 2011 9:48 am

Elhew,

That was a good breakdown to show where the cost is. Sometimes I think people believe that a pro is getting 15k per year for a dog with dog food as about the only expense. It would be cheaper for me to keep my dog with a pro than pay for my expenses to go as much as I do.

ultracarry · Post by **ultracarry** » Thu Sep 08, 2011 9:57 am

Chukar12 wrote:Elhew,

That was a good breakdown to show where the cost is. Sometimes I think people believe that a pro is getting 15k per year for a dog with dog food as about the only expense. It would be cheaper for me to keep my dog with a pro than pay for my expenses to go as much as I do.

+1. Just a 3 hour trip to ca city with a good hotel ( had to for wife). I was already at the monthly rate for my trainer.

Now entry fees for AKC and the nationals aren't as expensive but still hit your pocket. Nationals are 175 a brace and AKC trials average 50, then you run two braces so its 400.00 a month.

pinebrookkennel · Post by **pinebrookkennel** » Thu Sep 08, 2011 10:51 am

Is there a purse @ these event?
If so where is that money going. Straight to the handler, or do the owners get a percentage of winnings

Jered

ElhewPointer · Post by **ElhewPointer** » Thu Sep 08, 2011 10:56 am

Thats between you and your handler. Everyone is different.

ultracarry · Post by **ultracarry** » Thu Sep 08, 2011 10:58 am

I have only had my dog in one money stake. The conversation was if you can win with her keep the money, I get everything else.

Forgot to mention another expense... when/if they finish your dog. Dinner and drinks for who ever want to go is on you.

RayGubernat · Post by **RayGubernat** » Thu Sep 08, 2011 10:59 am

As far as pro costs are concerned, you also will pay travel and lodging expenses for the pro and their scout in accordance with how many of your dogs are on the the pro's string. You will pay pickup and dropoff costs at airports.

Depending on the pro, you may pay a handling fee for each dog run in a trial and you may or may not share in the purse(AF).

You will of course, pay all vet bills costs, for worming and flea protection, etc.

Some, probably most pros will charge for birds killed, especially if it is a significant number.

RayG

brad27 · Post by **brad27** » Thu Sep 08, 2011 11:01 am

ultracarry wrote:I have only had my dog in one money stake. The conversation was if you can win with her keep the money, I get everything else.

Forgot to mention another expense... when/if they finish your dog. Dinner and drinks for who ever want to go is on you.

that rule applies even when the owner isn't there. dinner is still on them.

ultracarry · Post by **ultracarry** » Thu Sep 08, 2011 11:03 am

I know. You get a verbal bill on the phone and a thanks.

ROTTnBRITT · Post by **ROTTnBRITT** » Thu Sep 08, 2011 12:06 pm

If people are spending 9-15k a year to do this, what are they gettting in return? Seems like an awful lot of money just to have a champion dog.

ElhewPointer · Post by **ElhewPointer** » Thu Sep 08, 2011 12:22 pm

Some people spend $10K a year to golf. They chase a white ball around a course, I chase a white dog around the country. And, if you have a good one, I mean good, people will breed to him. Only 1 stud fee a month at $800. Thats $9600. Pretty much pays for the season.

Chukar12 · Post by **Chukar12** » Thu Sep 08, 2011 12:22 pm

by ROTTnBRITT » Thu Sep 08, 2011 11:06 am

If people are spending 9-15k a year to do this, what are they gettting in return? Seems like an awful lot of money just to have a champion dog

...just some ribbons. Something to do with the dog before October and after January. A chance to see oodles of other dogs work that I could never equal out on hunting trips.Cammeraderie with very learned dog people that helps to satisfy obsessive compulsive behavior to training and pointing dogs in general. A chance to stay in competition without the frustration and boredom of the driving range. A chance to ride my horse in open country. An excuse to celebrate with bourbon and cigars. A chance to wear chaps without being in a controversial parade. An outlet to enjoy athletics without human contract negotiations, weapons charges, tabloid scandles, or drunk driving....shall I go on?

ElhewPointer · Post by **ElhewPointer** » Thu Sep 08, 2011 12:24 pm

Chukar12 wrote:
by ROTTnBRITT » Thu Sep 08, 2011 11:06 am

If people are spending 9-15k a year to do this, what are they gettting in return? Seems like an awful lot of money just to have a champion dog

...just some ribbons. Something to do with the dog before October and after January. A chance to see oodles of other dogs work that I could never equal out on hunting trips.Cammeraderie with very learned dog people that helps to satisfy obsessive compulsive behavior to training and pointing dogs in general. A chance to stay in competition without the frustration and boredom of the driving range. A chance to ride my horse in open country. An excuse to celebrate with bourbon and cigars. A chance to wear chaps without being in a controversial parade. An outlet to enjoy athletics without human contract negotiations, weapons charges, tabloid scandles, or drunk driving....shall I go on?

+1

ROTTnBRITT · Post by **ROTTnBRITT** » Thu Sep 08, 2011 12:33 pm

That all makes sense, there are plenty of hobbies out that that cost alot with no return. I kind of figured that was the responce I would get. I was just curious.
Wish I had the time and money to be involved in it all. Sound like good fun.
We'll see what the future brings.

ElhewPointer · Post by **ElhewPointer** » Thu Sep 08, 2011 12:36 pm

ROTTnBRITT wrote:That all makes sense, there are plenty of hobbies out that that cost alot with no return. I kind of figured that was the responce I would get. I was just curious.
Wish I had the time and money to be involved in it all. Sound like good fun.
We'll see what the future brings.

This is why you will see a lot of multiple owners on some of the top notch dogs. It makes it a lot easier. This summer I purchased a very nice, championship quality animal, and went in on him with a partner.

Chukar12 · Post by **Chukar12** » Thu Sep 08, 2011 12:37 pm

Trial cost
by ROTTnBRITT » Thu Sep 08, 2011 11:33 am

That all makes sense

Please call my wife and let her know...555-cld-shldr

ElhewPointer · Post by **ElhewPointer** » Thu Sep 08, 2011 12:45 pm

Chukar12 wrote:
Trial cost
by ROTTnBRITT » Thu Sep 08, 2011 11:33 am

That all makes sense
Please call my wife and let her know...555-cld-shldr

Thats super funny. To late for me. I went by the ol field trial motto:
Dogs, Horses, then Divorces.

ultracarry · Post by **ultracarry** » Thu Sep 08, 2011 1:26 pm

That MOTO sounds good. I was thinking the same until I asked my wife what she would do with my dog if I died lol. She will be going to some trials this coming season. If all else fails, guilt prevails.

DGFavor · Post by **DGFavor** » Thu Sep 08, 2011 1:37 pm

Rookies, rookies, rookies. No harm in letting the Mrs. mingle with the horses...

or work the dogs...

or blank the birds...

but never, never, let her look into the bank account to see how much you spend doin' it!!

ultracarry · Post by **ultracarry** » Thu Sep 08, 2011 1:50 pm

You are a very lucky man!

Chukar12 · Post by **Chukar12** » Thu Sep 08, 2011 1:51 pm

Re: Trial cost
by DGFavor » Thu Sep 08, 2011 11:37 am

Rookies, rookies, rookies. No harm in letting the Mrs. mingle with the horses...

Look at what that horse is packing in the first picture...it must be crazy far to Doug's laundry room

pinebrookkennel · Post by **pinebrookkennel** » Fri Sep 09, 2011 9:42 am

Can't let my wife see that pic she will want a horse to go shoping on. :roll: those bags get real heavy sometimes

Jered

Post by **Sharon** » Fri Sep 09, 2011 1:11 pm

Ontario: $1000. a month + trial fees + birds See Ray's post about other things to discuss ahead of time.

kbshorthairs · Post by **kbshorthairs** » Fri Sep 09, 2011 1:31 pm

[quote="DGFavor"]Rookies, rookies, rookies. No harm in letting the Mrs. mingle with the horses...

one more reason that I am envious, Doc! You really do have it ALL!!!!

birdogg42 · Post by **birdogg42** » Fri Sep 09, 2011 5:43 pm

Doc is that your daughter?

Mike

dan v · Post by **dan v** » Fri Sep 09, 2011 5:43 pm

Doc clearly out punted his coverage.

ACooper · Post by **ACooper** » Fri Sep 09, 2011 5:55 pm

kbshorthairs wrote:
DGFavor wrote:Rookies, rookies, rookies. No harm in letting the Mrs. mingle with the horses...

one more reason that I am envious, Doc! You really do have it ALL!!!!

I guess this is the super model/dog handler we hear about showing up at trials.

DGFavor · Post by **DGFavor** » Fri Sep 09, 2011 7:10 pm

Everyone's a comedian!! I like it!!

This spring I entered three dogs in the Oregon SD Ch. at I think 200 clams each. Total time all my dogs were on the ground combined was maybe 30 minutes, 40 tops. Single worst day/outing I've ever had at a trial...yet. I was actually starting to feel a tinge of guilt at the ridiculousness of it and confessed to my wife who'd been scouting that we'd just spent $600 for a half hour of not so much fun. I tried to justify it by telling her that if we'd won, we'd have well gotten our money back plus...she says "heck, this is like gambling...if we had another dog I'd enter it right now!!" Yahhh, she's on the team!!

There are some significant expenses involved in the game that's for sure. I sort of justify it as "my cruise to the Caribean", "my trip to Europe", or whatever else it is that normal people do with their spare time and vacations.

Post by **Sharon** » Fri Sep 09, 2011 8:30 pm

Chukar12 wrote:
by ROTTnBRITT » Thu Sep 08, 2011 11:06 am

If people are spending 9-15k a year to do this, what are they gettting in return? Seems like an awful lot of money just to have a champion dog

...just some ribbons. Something to do with the dog before October and after January. A chance to see oodles of other dogs work that I could never equal out on hunting trips.Cammeraderie with very learned dog people that helps to satisfy obsessive compulsive behavior to training and pointing dogs in general. A chance to stay in competition without the frustration and boredom of the driving range. A chance to ride my horse in open country. An excuse to celebrate with bourbon and cigars. A chance to wear chaps without being in a controversial parade. An outlet to enjoy athletics without human contract negotiations, weapons charges, tabloid scandles, or drunk driving....shall I go on?

Well said.

gotpointers · Post by **gotpointers** » Fri Sep 09, 2011 9:47 pm

Thanks for shareing, it sounds like my dogs are going to have to wait until my kids get out of private schools.
On second thought.
But then there's College !
I think i am going to just have to be happy out chaseing quail with my kids and dogs. I should have.enough money left over for a 12 pack of good beer for when i get home.

PkerStr8Tail · Post by **PkerStr8Tail** » Sat Sep 10, 2011 6:47 am

This discussion has been focusing in on an all or nothing senario. Saying it will run $10-15K to trial a dog is true if you are talking a Pro who hits the whole circuit. There are other options like competing in Amatuer events yourself or finding a Pro that is maybe more regional and only hits a few championships a year. Sure you don't go to every championship, but if you can't afford the $10-15K, you can still play the game on a limited basis for maybe $2-4K/year.

PntrRookie · Post by **PntrRookie** » Sat Sep 10, 2011 8:29 am

PkerStr8Tail wrote: There are other options like competing in Amatuer events yourself or finding a Pro that is maybe more regional and only hits a few championships a year. Sure you don't go to every championship, but if you can't afford the $10-15K, you can still play the game on a limited basis for maybe $2-4K/year.

That is my scenario and love it. Do want I can with what the good Lord has blessed me with. Doc...appreciate your response and photos!

ElhewPointer · Post by **ElhewPointer** » Sat Sep 10, 2011 8:51 am

PkerStr8Tail wrote:This discussion has been focusing in on an all or nothing senario. Saying it will run $10-15K to trial a dog is true if you are talking a Pro who hits the whole circuit. There are other options like competing in Amatuer events yourself or finding a Pro that is maybe more regional and only hits a few championships a year. Sure you don't go to every championship, but if you can't afford the $10-15K, you can still play the game on a limited basis for maybe $2-4K/year.

I agree with you, but the was the OP's question and thats why I answered it as such.

PkerStr8Tail · Post by **PkerStr8Tail** » Sat Sep 10, 2011 5:07 pm

ElhewPointer wrote:
PkerStr8Tail wrote:This discussion has been focusing in on an all or nothing senario. Saying it will run $10-15K to trial a dog is true if you are talking a Pro who hits the whole circuit. There are other options like competing in Amatuer events yourself or finding a Pro that is maybe more regional and only hits a few championships a year. Sure you don't go to every championship, but if you can't afford the $10-15K, you can still play the game on a limited basis for maybe $2-4K/year.
I agree with you, but the was the OP's question and thats why I answered it as such.

You're right that is what he asked. I was just wanting to make sure anyone who might be interested in trialing doesn't see the big price tag and not even consider it. I would like to see as many people get involved as possible. There are cheap options to trial for someone starting.

ultracarry · Post by **ultracarry** » Sat Sep 10, 2011 6:33 pm

I would find a local pro if there are any and discuss options before throwing it out. If you have time to donate, may take it off the price when field trial season starts.

JKP · Post by **JKP** » Sun Sep 11, 2011 9:24 am

you can still play the game on a limited basis for maybe $2-4K/year.

I assume playing is different than winning....what % of winners are doing it this way?

RayGubernat · Post by **RayGubernat** » Sun Sep 11, 2011 10:16 am

JKP wrote:
you can still play the game on a limited basis for maybe $2-4K/year.
I assume playing is different than winning....what % of winners are doing it this way?

JKP

Focusing on winning at field trials is like looking at the butt end of the dog. Competing in field trials, for those who do it over a long timeframe...is about a great deal more than winning. Nobody enters a field trial to lose, but when there are forty entries, there are going to be thirty nine losers, so if winning is what you are all about...you won't last long in field trialing.

The vast majority of amateurs train their own dogs and handle their own dogs in amateur competition. A fair percentage of those amateurs utilize the services of a pro in one or more ways... to help train, finish, polish and/or keep their dogs razor sharp and in shape.

There are a few amateurs who do compete in open stakes against pros. Those that do so regularly also win fairly regularly.

It is a fact that in AF Open Shooting Dog competitions there is a small handful of pro handlers that do the bulk of the winning. In Open All Age competition, a different but similarly small group of handlers once again does the bulk of the winning.

How many THOUSANDS of golfers play and enjoy the game their entire lives, spending gazillions of dollarsin the process, without ever once even coming close to being on the leader board of any sort of competition? Why in the world would folks spend all that time, energy and money going all over the country and sometimes, all over the world to hit a little ball with a bag full of very expensive, very funny shaped sticks?

RayG

pinebrookkennel · Post by **pinebrookkennel** » Sun Sep 11, 2011 10:30 am

Ray
You are right about golf there is a ton off money spent on all pastimes. Your average suburb white collar worker can play golf once a week and hang up the sticks. There are no chores to be done twice a day no matter the weather. Or trying to clean hoves or file teeth all the while trying not to get bitten or kicked. To each there own. Its all about what makes you happy.
Jered

myerstenn · Post by **myerstenn** » Sun Sep 11, 2011 2:35 pm

JKP wrote:
you can still play the game on a limited basis for maybe $2-4K/year.
I assume playing is different than winning....what % of winners are doing it this way?

When you have one on the major circut thats about what you will be doing, playing, watching or paying, mostly the latter, if yo get a lot of enjoyment out of cutting a check and and telling everbody about your dog on the internet thats the way to go!!! It aint about the money, anybody can do that. Its what you can PERSONALY ACHIEVE WITH YOUR TIME AND YOUR DOG that makes it rewarding.