Running a Puppy

DogNewbie · Post by **DogNewbie** » Mon Sep 19, 2011 8:45 am

Hello,

I've heard some mixed opinions on the subject of whether it's ok to run a puppy or not. I ask because I have 3.5mon old GWP that loves to run. On walks he pulls so intensely he contorts his body in a way that almost worries me (this isn't the whole walk, but happens usually right at the beginning or whenever he gets the scent of a duck or squirrel and when that happens he's pulling hard to go chase.) I really don't mind the pulling so much because it is definitely testament to his natural drive and I don't want to discourage that behavior, but it does seem tough on his body. I have run with him and he never pulls and it seems to me like a much less straining exercise for him than walks. He simply trots next to me and seem much more natural. He'll still want to chase squirrels and ducks but since I'm running as well it's not nearly the same kind of pulling as when I'm walking. Just hoping to hear some opinions on the matter and how you guys would handle the situation. I am considering heel training at this point, but I am worried about killing his drive. Thanks for the help!

Tim

Brittguy · Post by **Brittguy** » Mon Sep 19, 2011 8:52 am

It will not harm the puppy to run him, but you will be much happier if you teach him to heel, it will not discourage his drive. He knows the difference when he is on a leash or free to run.

DogNewbie · Post by **DogNewbie** » Mon Sep 19, 2011 9:02 am

Brittguy wrote:It will not harm the puppy to run him, but you will be much happier if you teach him to heel, it will not discourage his drive. He knows the difference when he is on a leash or free to run.

Yeah, I can definitely see why heel will eventually be a must. Would you suggest a choke chain for heel training? Treats as incentive or just a pat on the head?

Tim

GUNDOGS · Post by **GUNDOGS** » Mon Sep 19, 2011 9:08 am

how about if you take him for on lead walks in public areas, on the sidewalks ect...use that time to teach proper behavior on lead such as heel and no pulling and definitly teach NO chasing of squirrels, cats or any other animal for that matter..i think it would be much harder to teach the pup to have some control on lead in a field at this point as the field and a walk down a street are totally different things but if you teach him the proper behaviors out of the field then he will have the foundation to apply that in the field later..you wont take any desire in your pup by teaching obedience, he will know the difference..i have always taken jersey out to the field for "happy time" with very little speaking and save all that i want her to learn for yard work or on walks in school yards, our town, obedience class, our backyard or the park and apply those commands shes learned in the field as needed..also i recommend the prong collar for the pulling and teaching heel, it takes the pulling right out and if he walks in front of you just stop say heel, pull him to you in the heel position and then walk, if he starts to pull ahead a bit stop again pull him back to heel postition while saying heel and continue to walk again..if he sees squirrels ect and tries to pull tell him leave it and give a quick tug on the lead and if he so much as looks at the squirrel tell him leave it and keep walking..these things have worked for me so hope they help you out some too, good luck..ruth

Post by **Sharon** » Mon Sep 19, 2011 12:32 pm

Don't use a tool unless you have to..choke collars, prong collars etc. Start out with a leash. I tap puppy's nose with the leash every time he/she starts to move ahead of me. Start with that and move to something else if necessary. I have 3 dogs that heel off leash in the bush when asked . "Don't use a sledge hammer if a fly swatter will do the job. ":) Pup is only 3.5 months old. He doesn't have to get it perfect yet.

PS People worry about running , jumping in and out of the car, because a puppies' bones are still growing. They grow until about 2 so you can't wait that let pup run. I would not allow jumping in and out of the car or on and off the couch/chair.

DogNewbie · Post by **DogNewbie** » Mon Sep 19, 2011 12:38 pm

Sharon wrote:Don't use a tool unless you have to..choke collars, ...........etc. Start out with a leash. I tap puppy's nose with the leash every time he/she starts to move ahead of me. Start with that and move to something else if necessary. I have 3 dogs that heel off leash in the bush when asked . "Don't use a sledge hammer if a fly swatter will do the job. ":)

Isn't a choke collar doing the same thing you are with tapping the pups nose with the lead, but, IMO, making it more consistent? It seems to me your method is to simply get the pups attention back on to you with a simple flick of the nose. My understanding is the choke collar does the same thing but with a different contact point. So why do you shy away from using a helpful tool like a choke collar? Just personal preference?

Tim

phermes1 · Post by **phermes1** » Mon Sep 19, 2011 12:43 pm

When you have him on a lead, he should know to handle himself properly, so definitely teach him that - but that's not your original question.

I would not run a dog on lead on hard surfaces until they are least 18-24 months old. That kind of hard impact is not good for the joints or growth plates, and some studies indicate an increased risk of joint problems and hip dysplasia due to it.

If you want to run him off-lead in a park or on a beach, go for it. Let him go crazy. If you're talking jogging on a sidewalk, then I wouldn't recommend it.

ultracarry · Post by **ultracarry** » Mon Sep 19, 2011 12:50 pm

Teach the dog to walk in a leash. I use a pinch collar.

Then let the dog run and Chase things when he is off.

If your just wanting to run the dog or jog with it then limit the distance to a mile. I have had to run my dog since I got her at 11 weeks .

Post by **Sharon** » Mon Sep 19, 2011 12:52 pm

DogNewbie wrote:
Sharon wrote:Don't use a tool unless you have to..choke collars, ...........etc. Start out with a leash. I tap puppy's nose with the leash every time he/she starts to move ahead of me. Start with that and move to something else if necessary. I have 3 dogs that heel off leash in the bush when asked . "Don't use a sledge hammer if a fly swatter will do the job. ":)
Isn't a choke collar doing the same thing you are with tapping the pups nose with the lead, but, IMO, making it more consistent? It seems to me your method is to simply get the pups attention back on to you with a simple flick of the nose. My understanding is the choke collar does the same thing but with a different contact point. So why do you shy away from using a helpful tool like a choke collar? Just personal preference?

Tim

I'm old and old school. I shy away from unnecessary tools if one isn't needed.A leash is part of your day while a choke collar is "special". You're right . They both do the same job but the difference is $$$ too.

DogNewbie · Post by **DogNewbie** » Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:05 pm

Sharon wrote:
DogNewbie wrote:
Sharon wrote:Don't use a tool unless you have to..choke collars, ...........etc. Start out with a leash. I tap puppy's nose with the leash every time he/she starts to move ahead of me. Start with that and move to something else if necessary. I have 3 dogs that heel off leash in the bush when asked . "Don't use a sledge hammer if a fly swatter will do the job. ":)
Isn't a choke collar doing the same thing you are with tapping the pups nose with the lead, but, IMO, making it more consistent? It seems to me your method is to simply get the pups attention back on to you with a simple flick of the nose. My understanding is the choke collar does the same thing but with a different contact point. So why do you shy away from using a helpful tool like a choke collar? Just personal preference?

Tim

I'm old and old school. I shy away from unnecessary tools if one isn't needed.A leash is part of your day while a choke collar is "special". You're right . They both do the same job but the difference is $$$ too.

Ok, cool. I'm fortunate enough to have family and friends that have held on to some of their old dog supplies so I actually got a free choke chain from my uncle. Well maybe I can try both out and see which method Briar responds to best. Since he's so used to pulling from is collar maybe flicking his nose will be a better, more unexpected, contact point as well. Thanks for the advice Sharon!

Tim

GUNDOGS · Post by **GUNDOGS** » Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:06 pm

tim, everyone has different methods/tools for training and its all in what you are comfortable with and what works best for you and your dog..i started using the prong collar on jersey at about your pups age because she would pull non stop on walks as if she was in a hurry to get somewhere but didnt know where

i could see the pulling becoming a habit since the moment we hit the outdoors on a walk she started and it was a constant battle to slow her down and i didnt want to spend my walks constantly pulling her back to me, stopping, or correcting her so i bought one to see if it would help and it worked instantly

i used it only to teach her not to pull on walks and to enforce heel with the verbal command with VERY little effort as just a slight pull back on the lead gets the point across with a prong collar..i only needed it for a few months until she "got it" then i went to a regular nylon and leather collar and just put the prong collar on but didnt clip onto it then removed it all together, now shes 9 months old and my 4 year old can walk her and she will heel for her.. pulling on the leash will only get worse if you dont fix it now and the older they get the bigger they get therefore the harder they pull and i value my shoulder

..if you decide to use one just make sure it fits right and its up high on the neck properly while you are walking, you will see barley any effort goes into your walks and you will enjoy them therefore it will be a more productive lesson, jmo...ruth

jersey at 4 months with prong collar on...

DogNewbie · Post by **DogNewbie** » Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:11 pm

GUNDOGS wrote:tim, everyone has different methods/tools for training and its all in what you are comfortable with and what works best for you and your dog..i started using the prong collar on jersey at about your pups age because she would pull non stop on walks as if she was in a hurry to get somewhere but didnt know where i could see the pulling becoming a habit since the moment we hit the outdoors on a walk she started and it was a constant battle to slow her down and i didnt want to spend my walks constantly pulling her back to me, stopping, or correcting her so i bought one to see if it would help and it worked instantly i used it only to teach her not to pull on walks and to enforce heel with the verbal command with VERY little effort as just a slight pull back on the lead gets the point across with a prong collar..i only needed it for a few months until she "got it" then i went to a regular nylon and leather collar and just put the prong collar on but didnt clip onto it then removed it all together, now shes 9 months old and my 4 year old can walk her and she will heel for her.. pulling on the leash will only get worse if you dont fix it now and the older they get the bigger they get therefore the harder they pull and i value my shoulder ..if you decide to use one just make sure it fits right and its up high on the neck properly while you are walking, you will see barley any effort goes into your walks and you will enjoy them therefore it will be a more productive lesson, jmo...ruth

jersey at 4 months with prong collar on...

Cool. Thanks for the post! If it becomes clear that Briar isn't responding well to heel training I may try that out. Thanks again Ruth!

Tim

Cajun Casey · Post by **Cajun Casey** » Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:17 pm

Get a goatroper's piggin' string and watch a couple of the Smith boys. Ronnie just put an article on heeling up on his website. www.ronniesmithkennels.com

mcclinj · Post by **mcclinj** » Mon Sep 19, 2011 3:01 pm

My pup pulled and pulled and was a pain to walk and I was afraid she was gonna hurt herself pulling. I got a command lead a few months back and she learned to heel almost immediately.

-John

DogNewbie · Post by **DogNewbie** » Mon Sep 19, 2011 3:16 pm

mcclinj wrote:My pup pulled and pulled and was a pain to walk and I was afraid she was gonna hurt herself pulling. I got a command lead a few months back and she learned to heel almost immediately.

-John

That's comforting. What exactly is a command lead?

Cajun Casey · Post by **Cajun Casey** » Mon Sep 19, 2011 3:35 pm

DogNewbie wrote:
mcclinj wrote:My pup pulled and pulled and was a pain to walk and I was afraid she was gonna hurt herself pulling. I got a command lead a few months back and she learned to heel almost immediately.

-John
That's comforting. What exactly is a command lead?

Pretty much a piggin' string with fancy rubber stoppers. Used to be called a Wonder Lead. I don't like it because of the weight and lack of flexibility, so my trainer sent me off for goat sized strings. I love the lighter, more flexible size and they come in designer colors!

DougB · Post by **DougB** » Mon Sep 19, 2011 6:39 pm

Just a thought-see if you have a local group that teaches obedience. They actually teach the owner how to teach the dog. Most dogs can be trained without punishment, using treats and affection. Some need firmness, but most respond well to rewards for proper behavior. Group classes encourage you to work with the dog regularly. An obedience trained dog is just pleasant to have around.

gotpointers · Post by **gotpointers** » Tue Sep 20, 2011 12:09 am

Well put Dougb, it is the AKC canine good citizen test i think you are refering to. I agree with you it is well worth the effort and it will make living with a dog more enjoyable and safer. The heel command has saved my dogs from rattlesnake bites and other dangerous situations.

DogNewbie · Post by **DogNewbie** » Tue Sep 20, 2011 8:08 am

Sharon wrote:
DogNewbie wrote:
Sharon wrote:Don't use a tool unless you have to..choke collars, ...........etc. Start out with a leash. I tap puppy's nose with the leash every time he/she starts to move ahead of me. Start with that and move to something else if necessary. I have 3 dogs that heel off leash in the bush when asked . "Don't use a sledge hammer if a fly swatter will do the job. ":)
Isn't a choke collar doing the same thing you are with tapping the pups nose with the lead, but, IMO, making it more consistent? It seems to me your method is to simply get the pups attention back on to you with a simple flick of the nose. My understanding is the choke collar does the same thing but with a different contact point. So why do you shy away from using a helpful tool like a choke collar? Just personal preference?

Tim

I'm old and old school. I shy away from unnecessary tools if one isn't needed.A leash is part of your day while a choke collar is "special". You're right . They both do the same job but the difference is $$$ too.

I tried your "old school" method of heel training this morning. It took about 10 minutes of Briar constantly getting his nose hit by the leather lead until he figured out that he has to pay attention to me. Finally he started to walk next to me and of course, right when he's succeeding the neighbors let their dog out into their yard...but all in all I think it was a positive exercise.

laxhcky4 · Post by **laxhcky4** » Tue Sep 20, 2011 9:48 am

I used a pinch collar, prefer that to a choke chain. My dog responds a lot better. Then I transferred to the ecollar

Post by **Sharon** » Tue Sep 20, 2011 9:50 am

Good for you. You gave me a morning smile.

Vonzeppelinkennels · Post by **Vonzeppelinkennels** » Tue Sep 20, 2011 9:53 am

+1 on the pinch collar & transition to the e-collar & I do the same with the CC & pinch collar & E-collar,seems to make the transition quick & easy with out confusion.Hence both corrections at the neck!!

Ecw21 · Post by **Ecw21** » Tue Sep 20, 2011 7:54 pm

I live downtown in Chicago and I've managed to train my dog into automatically heeling...it took constant diligent work and I reinforce daily. Her heel manners in the field are such a convenience...I fought with her for awhile early on and the command lead ultimately did the deed...I have since taught all manners of dogs (none of my family or friends seem to be able to teach heel) with just a leash as Sharon says....consistent, consistent, consistent. Heeling almost constantly has done zero to decrease her desire...in fact, it might INCREASE it...To me, it is a true asset in everyday life with an energetic dog and almost no one enforces it. Prob because it is hard....just my 2 cents! Best of luck!

Eric

DogNewbie · Post by **DogNewbie** » Wed Sep 21, 2011 8:07 am

Thanks Eric,

So how exactly is the command lead different than a choke chain?

Tim

Post by **ezzy333** » Wed Sep 21, 2011 8:55 am

I never advise anyone to use a choke chain on any dog. They are a great tool to damage the throat permently. A pinch collar or even a regular collar will work just as well to control the dog and since they learn by repetion they will learn just as fast if you are consistant in your training.

Ezzy

DonF · Post by **DonF** » Wed Sep 21, 2011 10:07 am

Every method your reading about will work, been proved to many times in the past. Which ever one you use, you'll mneed to keep your dogs attention on what it's doing. So which ever one you use, you can let up on the pressure a bit if, when your dog get's out of place, make a move either directly into or away from him. If you turn into him, drop your left knee down and bump him in the side with it. If you dog is not paying attention to you, you have a problem. All any of the collars and the Wonder Lead really do is recapture the dogs attention with one type disipline or another. Some of them make the correction more severe and some less, but used properly none will hurt the dog.

If you go with a choke collar, there is a right way to put it on. When it's on the dog, it should fit loosely but the slack needs to come out right away. Then with the dog on your left, that's where the dog will be in an obedience class, the ring you hook your leash to goes over it's neck and is between you and the dog. The sliding end will come from under the neck to the side your heeling the dog. With the collar put on that way, when you release the pressure, the other end of the collar will pull the leash end down and back thru it, loosening the collar. If you go the other way what will happen is the leash end drops down past the other end and the collar never release's properly. If the collar is to big it makes that just that much worse and to long a collar will come up and slap the dog on the side of the face, don't do that.

There is a right way to use the choke collar. Do tugs with it but only after youv'e got the dog paying attention to you. The tug regains the dogs attention. Start out giving the dog plenty of slack and let it move around. Watch for your opening, the dog will be in a position to easily get to a heel position, and call it to heel. Turn directly away from it and pull it up on your left side. Soon as it's there, release the pressure. It will wander off then, just say heel again and give a few gentle tugs till its back in position. As long as its where it should be, the leash needs to be loose.

Ezzy brought up that the choke can damage a dogs throat, he's right but then used improperly all the collars can do that. Other than my preesent dogs, the only way I've ever taught a dog to heel is with the choke collar, but I learned it in an obedience class and that is what the instructor used. I've tried replacing it with a pinch collar, it was to stiff and would not release right. Have never used that German claw collar, just can't imagine how much disipline that could deliver if used wrong, but it will release immediately. A regular leather collar will work also but you end up dragging the dog around to much unless you do a lot of turns into it and change directions soon as you see you've lost its attention. The leather collar delivers next to no disipline but used right it will work very well. All I used on my boys working on heel was their leather collar. I'm ashamed to admit I don't keep after it much so they don't retain as well as they should.

Post by **Sharon** » Wed Sep 21, 2011 11:57 am

DogNewbie wrote:
mcclinj wrote:My pup pulled and pulled and was a pain to walk and I was afraid she was gonna hurt herself pulling. I got a command lead a few months back and she learned to heel almost immediately.

-John
That's comforting. What exactly is a command lead?

Hard to explain but well worth the $20.00.
Links might help:

http://www.delmarsmithkennels.com/specials.html

http://www.pointersupply.com/products/D ... -6-ft.html

DogNewbie · Post by **DogNewbie** » Wed Sep 21, 2011 12:05 pm

Thanks for the links!

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