FORCE FETCHING

[llewellinsetter]

Hey I'm not clear how to teach force fetching, i would love to hear some peoples methods on teaching and reinforcing force fetching.

[Redfishkilla]

Buy Evan Graham's "Smart Work". Follow it to a T.

[birddog1968]

Its not an easy thing to describe because so much depends on the dog and reading the dog....It also has alot to do with how you conduct yourself while doing it....

Basicly its composed of teaching hold and then teaching and forcing fetch or dead or what ever command you chose, then progressing from taking it from hand to taking it off the ground or table to going distances down a table or ground and returning it to you.....so much depends on how its administered and how the dog responds and then having the trainer respond in kind to the dog. The force can be applied in the process in numerous ways from ear pinch to collar pressure to my favorite toe hitch pressure. More pressure is seldom the answer , patience and proper application of as little pressure as it takes without forgetting praise is what it takes.

[ultracarry]

Bill gibbons also has a good method. Check out maga bird dogs web site and he has some stuff for sale...

[gonehuntin']

Buy Evan Graham's "Smart Work". Follow it to a T.

+1. It's the bible. Nothing else out there as good.

[birddogger]

Buy Evan Graham's "Smart Work". Follow it to a T.

+1. It's the bible. Nothing else out there as good.

+2

Charlie

[Maurice]

Bill gibbons also has a good method. Check out maga bird dogs web site and he has some stuff for sale...

Bill still use the pinch collar in the early FF work?

Mo

[ultracarry]

Don't know of him personally as of right now....

The method uses the pinch collar.

[MHWH]

I would ask why do you want to force fetch your dog in the first place?
Is there a problem?

If you have a good reason and don't know how to do it, don't. Have a pro do it
who has done it a lot and is a guy you know you can trust. Maybe try to be there
to learn. Going it alone the first time is, in my opinion, a recipe for disaster.

Never saw the need myself, and never did it. I have read and heard all sorts of things
about FF. Most trainers agree this is not for a rookie. Do some more reading about it,
then find someone to do it for you.

IMHO

Mike

[birddog1968]

It's true it is a tough process for a rookie, but you can tilt the odds in your favor by doing alot of reading and research on the subject.


I am hunting waterfowl and upland birds now with the first dog I ever FF'd (10 years now), is he perfect? No..... has he been an excellent dog with a great desire
to retrieve my birds despite the semi-poor/rookie job i did? absolutely ! Its not magic , its just a process that takes some serious research, patience
and will to succeed to accomplish.

[Maurice]

Don't know of him personally as of right now....

The method uses the pinch collar.

It works good but can be rough on your back if you have several dogs going through the training, course I'm older now too.

Mo

[Hattrick]

I think you should do it urself , getting help from someone who has experence is the best method. Its real hard to read ur progress till have done it. I would of given up if i didn't have help. Its best thing you can do even tho its tough it sets the foundation for rest of your training at the next level. good luck!!

[ACooper]

Agreed if you always find someone else to do it, you will always need someone else to do it. The hardest part of force fetch for most people is being able to be consistent while at the same time not rushing through. Find a proven plan/method and stick with it to the end. No short cuts.

[deke]

Not to hijack but i was wondering what you guys think about FF for a dog who already loves to retrieve and always brings the bird back?

[ACooper]

Deke it depends on your plans for the dog. But if the dog has a great retrieve, then I wouldnt worry about it.

[ultracarry]

Don't know of him personally as of right now....

The method uses the pinch collar.

It works good but can be rough on your back if you have several dogs going through the training, course I'm older now too.

Mo

I can see how it could be. I just kept it to 5 minute sessions 2-3 times a day.

[llewellinsetter]

Im not convinced i will need to do it. I dont even have my dog yet i really just wanted to hear peoples thoughts about it.

[birddog1968]

I force em all regardless, i like the results and the mindset it puts the dog in.

[birddogger]

Agreed if you always find someone else to do it, you will always need someone else to do it. The hardest part of force fetch for most people is being able to be consistent while at the same time not rushing through. Find a proven plan/method and stick with it to the end. No short cuts.

Well said and there is no reason why anybody can't do it if you do your research and are committed.

Charlie

[ST8 UPPOINTERS]

Imo a novice trainer should never try to ff a dog! The chances of good results arnt good.. There are exceptions to every rule, but imo u should have an accoplished trainer do this for you..

[birddogger]

Imo a novice trainer should never try to ff a dog! The chances of good results arnt good.. There are exceptions to every rule, but imo u should have an accoplished trainer do this for you..

IMO, you have a point if a person is a first time dog owner and has never trained or handled a dog. Other than that, everything has to be done for the first time at some point.

Charlie

[birddog1968]

One would never learn if one did not ever try. Your first try my not be the best but with care you will also not ruin a dog.

Don't you agree TcAce?

[gonehuntin']

Agreed if you always find someone else to do it, you will always need someone else to do it. The hardest part of force fetch for most people is being able to be consistent while at the same time not rushing through. Find a proven plan/method and stick with it to the end. No short cuts.

Well said and there is no reason why anybody can't do it if you do your research and are committed.

Charlie

+1. I do all of my dog's, need it or not.

[gonehuntin']

Imo a novice trainer should never try to ff a dog! The chances of good results arnt good.. There are exceptions to every rule, but imo u should have an accoplished trainer do this for you..

IMO, you have a point if a person is a first time dog owner and has never trained or handled a dog. Other than that, everything has to be done for the first time at some point.

Charlie

When I first started with dogs, some 50+ years ago, I wanted to try EVERYTHING and considered any problem a challenge to be worked out. Back then, there were barely any books available on training and tapes and CD's weren't invented. You figured it out and learned it yourself.

So, yup, from teaching whoa, sit, or heel to ff, you gotta get wet feet sometime.

[llewellinsetter]

I feel like trying to do it , i feel like it will help me grow as a dog owner and a young trainer.

[birddog1968]

I feel like trying to do it , i feel like it will help me grow as a dog owner and a young trainer.

Do as much reading and video watching of the subject as you can.....before you get to that point.

Evans method "Smart Fetch" must be good as so many folks are pleased with it......thats not to say other methods /older methods
aren't just as effective. Education is your friend.

[ST8 UPPOINTERS]

I agree you have to start some where! I dont think ff a dog right off the bat is the best way to get your feet wet!

[MHWH]

I tried to post here yesterday, but must have missed something, as it never appeared.

I have heard in the past and again here how FF is considered a foundation to other
training. Even heard some who believe it should be done on all dogs for this reason.

I have been there and done that a little, several years ago. I am not a pro trainer, and don't
think I know all about training, but i do have some ideas on this.

FF requiers the trainer to use pain on the dog for compliance hence the term Force fetch. Using either
the ear pinch or the toe hitch the pain is removed when the dog complies.

This being a foundation then means the foundation of the training is based on the trainer inflicting pain on the
dog. I don't want my foundation to involve pain.

I hand fed a dog that was a year old with the idea of creating a fast and strong bond. It worked very well for
that dog. People make the pup wait to eat until told to do so by the owner/trainer, and there are other methods
that establish who is in charge.

I also like dogs that naturally have a very good retrieve in them. These don't need to FFed in my opinion.

I think some pros due to time restraints use things like this that the average guy does not need to employ.

Just my opinion, wondering what other think about this.

Mike

[snips]

I tried to post here yesterday, but must have missed something, as it never appeared.

I have heard in the past and again here how FF is considered a foundation to other
training. Even heard some who believe it should be done on all dogs for this reason.

I have been there and done that a little, several years ago. I am not a pro trainer, and don't
think I know all about training, but i do have some ideas on this.

FF requiers the trainer to use pain on the dog for compliance hence the term Force fetch. Using either
the ear pinch or the toe hitch the pain is removed when the dog complies.

This being a foundation then means the foundation of the training is based on the trainer inflicting pain on the
dog. I don't want my foundation to involve pain.

I hand fed a dog that was a year old with the idea of creating a fast and strong bond. It worked very well for
that dog. People make the pup wait to eat until told to do so by the owner/trainer, and there are other methods
that establish who is in charge.

I also like dogs that naturally have a very good retrieve in them. These don't need to FFed in my opinion.

I think some pros due to time restraints use things like this that the average guy does not need to employ.

Just my opinion, wondering what other think about this.

Mike

Yes, there is discomfort in the FF process...But there is also LOTS of praise that generates into a dog loving to do it. (If it is done right) Dogs learn to love complying and getting that praise and stroking when done right, once again...99% of the dogs I do love retrieving when finished. It can be rewarding for the person doing it as well as the dog on the receiving end. It is a pita to do, but nothing but pride when finishhed.I sent u an message if u want my article it it pretty step by step. I just recommend letting the dog fully mature before doing it...And, I have had great natural retrievers and am just as happy with that than going thru unnecessary FF...JUST ME....