Need some training advice about our puppy...

[isuhunter]

So, I'm trying to stay on the forefront of this and am curious what others think we should do. Our 11 week old GSP has been a lot of fun. We have been working on the "No biting" she loves to bite at our hands and over the past 2 weeks she has gotten a lot better. However, she still lunges for our face or wife's hair (I think its playing in her mind) and still growls at our feet and tries to nip at slippers and pants. If its what I would consider a little more agressive play than we like we (wife or I) yelp and leave the room. If its more serious I have been showing her that isn't acceptable by grabbing her scruff and lifting her up and giving a stern NO. If she continues I will pin her down on her back until she relaxes. Well after the later part (two times) she has gone up to the couch and urinated.

Is this her way of saying "right back at ya" ? Are we doing something incorrect? How would you experienced owners proceed?
Thanks

[goldenpatch29]

haha....Im laughing with you and not at you because I have a boxer that used to do the same thing.....so aggrevating.
Now, when she does something that she is not supposed to....we make her sit in her crate, like sitting in time out, and that seems to work pretty good.
Im not saying that would work with your dog because all dogs are different just like people, but it is something you could try.

[Cajun Casey]

First, I never use a crate for "time out" or punishment of any kind. Second, why is the dog in a position to reach anyone's face or hair? Third, try having appropriate toys and chews handy so the dog has something to do besides nag you. She is old enough to play fetch with and this will give her some structure and you control over her mouth.

[isuhunter]

First, I never use a crate for "time out" or punishment of any kind. Second, why is the dog in a position to reach anyone's face or hair? Third, try having appropriate toys and chews handy so the dog has something to do besides nag you. She is old enough to play fetch with and this will give her some structure and you control over her mouth.

We haven't used the crate for a timeout ever. We are trying to make that her most pleasant place. If we are sitting on the floor with her playing is when she'll jump for hair or faces.

[goldenpatch29]

First, I never use a crate for "time out" or punishment of any kind. Second, why is the dog in a position to reach anyone's face or hair? Third, try having appropriate toys and chews handy so the dog has something to do besides nag you. She is old enough to play fetch with and this will give her some structure and you control over her mouth.

SORRY!....didnt mean to offend anyone with the suggestion of the crate....How horrible of me....please forgive me!

[Cajun Casey]

First, I never use a crate for "time out" or punishment of any kind. Second, why is the dog in a position to reach anyone's face or hair? Third, try having appropriate toys and chews handy so the dog has something to do besides nag you. She is old enough to play fetch with and this will give her some structure and you control over her mouth.

We haven't used the crate for a timeout ever. We are trying to make that her most pleasant place. If we are sitting on the floor with her playing is when she'll jump for hair or faces.

Okay, then it's time to play fetch. I also use bumpers or fleece braids they can grab at that age. I'd give her a little treat for releasing. If you want to correct the pup by pinning her, then pin her from the top, hand over her neck and shoulders, like her momma would do. Throwing her over on her back until she submits is more like rough play among puppies. Another trick a couple of my small dog breeder friends shared is to use a laser pointer to direct the pup away from you while getting her to run around and burn off energy. I've seen a video of shih tzu puppies chasing a laser. It's pretty funny.

[Sharon]

So, I'm trying to stay on the forefront of this and am curious what others think we should do. Our 11 week old GSP has been a lot of fun. We have been working on the "No biting" she loves to bite at our hands and over the past 2 weeks she has gotten a lot better. However, she still lunges for our face or wife's hair (I think its playing in her mind) and still growls at our feet and tries to nip at slippers and pants. If its what I would consider a little more agressive play than we like we (wife or I) yelp and leave the room. If its more serious I have been showing her that isn't acceptable by grabbing her scruff and lifting her up and giving a stern NO. If she continues I will pin her down on her back until she relaxes. Well after the later part (two times) she has gone up to the couch and urinated.

Is this her way of saying "right back at ya" ? Are we doing something incorrect? How would you experienced owners proceed?
Thanks

Dogs aren't human; they don't try to get back at you.(Some will disagree.)

Whenever there is a lot of play/excitement a puppy will need to pee. Best to take him outside right at the end of the playing time or sooner.

[AzDoggin]

With a pup, we always keep a basket of "ok to chew" items. If pup wants to chew a human, we quick swapped out the toy for our leg, or whatever. However, the pup doesn't learn all that much that way - it's just a diversionary tactic. It works to get them through the chewing stage.

I like kninebirddog's (member here) method for biting. It's based more in leadership by the humans. It's on her website with some other very good info for pup training - link below.

Biting and or nipping are undesired behaviors that should be nipped in the bud right at the start. This is the method that I like to use. When the pup starts to bite or nip I will take my 2 fingers and place them sideways in the mouth with my thumb under the jaw. I then place my other hand behind the head. This helps to brace the pup so they cannot harm themselves by pulling away. Hold this position till the pup stops struggling and vocalizing and where the pup relaxes and gives into your hand being in the mouth and as soon as the pup shows that acceptance and get your fingers out of the mouth, quickly say “release” and roll your fingers gently backwards to take them out.
This changes the rules of the pup’s game. I will then place my hand in front of the pup’s mouth; the pup should LICK your hand. This is a sign of accepting who is the alpha. If the pup should try and mouth your hand repeat the application. I have found that after a couple of applications this behavior ceases. And again I want to stress none of these actions are to ever harm or physically hurt the pup ever. The pup may whine and vocalize some discontent but never pain.

Read more: http://www.kninebirddog.com/puppy-found ... z1jZeiMUjN

[isuhunter]

Cajun, thanks for the advice. We'll give it a try next time its needed.

[ultracarry]

After the right back at ya... Snatch it up by the back of the neck and throw it out side. I would Tell you something else hut don't want the hate mail.... Dog wouldn't be happy though. GSP puppies are bullet proof and you can't be soft with them.

[Cajun Casey]

Cajun, thanks for the advice. We'll give it a try next time its needed.

I prefer to redirect and strengthen natural abilities rather than correct misbehavior. After raising several litters over the past nine years, I have never had a pup I raised have a mouth on people issue. Dogs I've gotten elsewhere, I've had the problem.

I had 5-1/2 week old pups out for the first time in the yard today and it is so cool to watch them choose sticks and leaves to carry and even cooler when they carry them to me. I have a two year old who, when he sees me, grabs anything he can to give me. Not good when it's the cat.

[birddogger]

Dogs aren't human; they don't try to get back at you.(Some will disagree.)

I won't!

After the right back at ya... Snatch it up by the back of the neck and throw it out side. I would Tell you something else hut don't want the hate mail.... Dog wouldn't be happy though. GSP puppies are bullet proof and you can't be soft with them.

Of course you may seriously injur or even kill the pup by doing this but hey, it's just a dog. Bullet proof...I don't think so.

Charlie

[ultracarry]

Sorry.... Tell the dog its ok and thank it for peeing on the couch. Redirect it to your bed for future purposeful peeing exploits. Dogs don't understand positive reinforcement at much as they remember consequences. I had mine think biting was ok to do and that's why my wife got her, because she bit her dad. Thought it was funny. Dog sunk its teeth into me twice in one afternoon when I was on the couch. After the second time she has never came close.

Another dog leaked on the floor every time she was mad... Doesn't do that either.

Let me know of a healthy puppy that will die from being picked up by the scruff of its neck like its mother would do.. or die from being put outside. If the dog is that weak and dies then you will be saving a ton of money in vet bills by not having of anymore. It is still a dog right?

Stop treating them like kids and protecting them.and maybe the dog will realize its a dog and not be upset when it gets put in its place.

[birddogger]

You know what you said. You said pick the pup up and throw it outside and you would suggest something else but didn't want to get hate mail. And there is no biting issue here. It is a normal puppy that nips and chews like they all do. It is an easy fix with good advise already given and it is not positive reinforcement either. As far as a peeing issue, he will have to be house broken with whatever method the owner wants to use. This sounds like a perfectly normal puppy which just needs a little discipline. Jumping at the head and face, again, normal behavior and can be taught that it is unacceptable without throwing, beating or whatever else you would suggest for a small puppy.

Charlie

[birddogger]

With a pup, we always keep a basket of "ok to chew" items. If pup wants to chew a human, we quick swapped out the toy for our leg, or whatever. However, the pup doesn't learn all that much that way - it's just a diversionary tactic. It works to get them through the chewing stage.

I like kninebirddog's (member here) method for biting. It's based more in leadership by the humans. It's on her website with some other very good info for pup training - link below.

Biting and or nipping are undesired behaviors that should be nipped in the bud right at the start. This is the method that I like to use. When the pup starts to bite or nip I will take my 2 fingers and place them sideways in the mouth with my thumb under the jaw. I then place my other hand behind the head. This helps to brace the pup so they cannot harm themselves by pulling away. Hold this position till the pup stops struggling and vocalizing and where the pup relaxes and gives into your hand being in the mouth and as soon as the pup shows that acceptance and get your fingers out of the mouth, quickly say “release” and roll your fingers gently backwards to take them out.
This changes the rules of the pup’s game. I will then place my hand in front of the pup’s mouth; the pup should LICK your hand. This is a sign of accepting who is the alpha. If the pup should try and mouth your hand repeat the application. I have found that after a couple of applications this behavior ceases. And again I want to stress none of these actions are to ever harm or physically hurt the pup ever. The pup may whine and vocalize some discontent but never pain.

Read more: http://www.kninebirddog.com/puppy-found ... z1jZeiMUjN

This is what I was talking about when I said there had already been good advise given on the nipping and that it wasn't positive reinforcement. There are other similar methods that work just as well. A couple of the others on here, not so much.

Charlie

[Benny]

I like the method above, I did a similar method not really knowing it was a "method" at the time. If my dog put her mouth on my hands I just pushed it farther back into her mouth till it was uncomfortable for her. They get the idea quickly.

As for how I would proceed with the couch-peeing...don't let the dog on the couch

[birddogger]

They get the idea quickly.

Usually after about 3 or 4 times and then maybe reinforced from time to time.

Charlie

[ultracarry]

Throw toss put it outside ... How every you want to word it.... Think you are a little sensitive and over reacting to a choice of words. Do you really think by throw I ment an overhand fastball? Lol

[wems2371]

She might've pee'd out of fear or surprise, if these were her first hard scoldings, or excitement from the whole affair. And once they pee in a spot, especially fabric that holds scent, they might be likely to repeat...especially when the scenario leading up to it is the same. The biting thing is pretty normal. When I had longer hair, one of ours thought that was pretty cool too at that age. Mostly when it was hands they were after, we'd make them gag a little, by holding our fingers in their mouth and taking the fun out of it. You don't even need to say anything, and they figure out they don't like fingers! Redirection with tasks is always good, like a fetching game. She'll grow out of biting, and not all shorthairs are the same with reprimands. My older dog is a sensative soul and the tone of my voice or even a look is enough to make her get the scolded look and leave the room. It doesn't sound like you did anything harsh at all, but I would try some of the other suggestions posted, and see what the outcome is. Remember how old she is too, and have patience. IMO, many times it's better to out think an animal, than get a heavier hand.

[RoostersMom]

I wouldn't ever use the crate for punishment, but I would be sure the pup was in the crate when I wasn't watching it 100%. I'd also look into NILIF, Nothing in Life is Free for your pup. I know he's small, but a pup that is already up on the couch, IMO, has way too many privileges. Yep, we have couch dwellers in my house, but they earn that, and they don't usually earn it within the first 9 months of life! Our young GSP is a nipper - always jumping up on you and grabbing hands or jackets or pants legs. She, and our 11 year old GSP are/were both hair biters. Gator, my older GSP, got her name from taking my braid and twisting much like a Gator does in the water with a deer. She would grab and spin her body around - this was on the couch - before the no puppies on the couch rule. The current pup loves to nibble and bite at my ponytail and hubby's beard. The thing that really helped us a lot was giving her a toy the minute we knew she'd be starting that behavior and letting her carry it. It has eliminated about 95% of that behavior. It has to be a toy she wants to have in her mouth though. It has really worked for us.

And I, like many others, don't believe dogs are spiteful, especially a young pup, it has to go, so it goes. I sure don't think a dog will make itself go if it doesn't have to, just to be spiteful. Stress and activity can cause peeing - my pup pees when the other dog growls at her....sometimes it takes a minute for her, but she almost always "needs to go" after she's had a questionable altercation with the older pointer (which we do try to limit!). Always use a good enzymatic cleaner on the areas where she has peed, natural remedies don't work from the dog's standpoint. I use Nature's Miracle.

[birddogger]

Throw toss put it outside ... How every you want to word it.... Think you are a little sensitive and over reacting to a choice of words. Do you really think by throw I ment an overhand fastball? Lol

Yep, that is what it sounded like because they are "bullet proof" and you can't hurt them. Look Ultra, I am as strict on my dogs as anybody...When I give a command, they better well obey or suffer the consequences. They know it and that's why it doesn't happen very often. But we are talking about a 11 wk. old pup here, who's behavior is normal for that age and can be easily corrected with very little pressure. Also, If you think disagreeing with what or how something is said is being sensitive then get used to it, because with your tone on this and other threads, it is probably going to happen often. Just try putting yourself in a brand new dog owner's place and read what you posted and ask yourself if it would be of any help or if it sounded like severe measures.

Charlie