The Economy and Vets

Post by **Sharon** » Thu Feb 09, 2012 3:14 pm

I talked to my vet to-day . The economy is in bad shape here in Ontario. She said that she is practically working part time. People do not have the money for a vet.
I knew the economy was bad here , but never translated that into vet appts.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe-in ... le2325356/

ultracarry · Post by **ultracarry** » Thu Feb 09, 2012 3:25 pm

That's why I started asking some people how to do stitches, staples, remove foreign objects etc... Saved a lot of money this season!

Buckeye_V · Post by **Buckeye_V** » Thu Feb 09, 2012 3:34 pm

There is a large animal vet shortage in Ohio, but it is hard to get people to get into the field when people don;t want to pay what a good vet is worth. I pay my vet's bill without question. They charge a fair price and take great care of my animals, large and small. I get a chuckle out of some people freaking about vet bills. They do not hesitate to plunk down the money for an e-collar, gps, gun or bird launchers but shiver when the vet gives them a bill for 200 to make sure their investment can keep performing the way they do.... Go figure :roll:

bb560m · Post by **bb560m** » Thu Feb 09, 2012 4:14 pm

Cost me $450 for a barbed wire accident - 4 stitches x 2 spots (total of 8 stitches). I imagine he'll only get into more accidents. How hard is it to suture yourself?

Post by **topher40** » Thu Feb 09, 2012 4:32 pm

Surely never hurts to know how to do it yourself, regardless of the number of dogs or the economy. I have saved myself THOUSANDS over the years knowing what to do. Knowledge is power.

ultracarry · Post by **ultracarry** » Thu Feb 09, 2012 4:46 pm

bb560m wrote:Cost me $450 for a barbed wire accident - 4 stitches x 2 spots (total of 8 stitches). I imagine he'll only get into more accidents. How hard is it to suture yourself?

Very very easy. Cost you about $20.00 out of pocket.

markj · Post by **markj** » Thu Feb 09, 2012 4:50 pm

Super glue is yer best friend. I also do all my own shots cept rabies.

Mountaineer · Post by **Mountaineer** » Thu Feb 09, 2012 4:54 pm

Animal and pet care is often the first to go....further exemplified by the number of pets dumped in the country during tougher times.

Cajun Casey · Post by **Cajun Casey** » Thu Feb 09, 2012 4:58 pm

I don't feel like supporting a cluster of vet techs and admins, so I go to private practices. VCA is the Devil, IMO.

Benny · Post by **Benny** » Thu Feb 09, 2012 5:10 pm

Buckeye_V wrote:There is a large animal vet shortage in Ohio, but it is hard to get people to get into the field when people don;t want to pay what a good vet is worth. I pay my vet's bill without question. They charge a fair price and take great care of my animals, large and small. I get a chuckle out of some people freaking about vet bills. They do not hesitate to plunk down the money for an e-collar, gps, gun or bird launchers but shiver when the vet gives them a bill for 200 to make sure their investment can keep performing the way they do.... Go figure :roll:

There's a lot of truth to that!

DIY health care can be a risky one too. You might know how to field stitch your dog and dress wounds, but can you diagnose an infection that could spread once sewn up? Are you also looking out for the other possible injuries our damage to your dog that vets often point out because as owners we're exceptionally tunnel visioned on one ailment.

Gertie · Post by **Gertie** » Thu Feb 09, 2012 5:20 pm

I put together a good first aid kit and I know how to do the basics but when it comes down to it I appreciate having a good vet that I trust and can take my dog to. I know a lot of folks aren't advocates of the pet insurance but I really like having it. Deductible is $200 and they pick up the bill after that (and usually if there's an incident it's going to be more than that) plus it covers wellness stuff like vaccines, teeth cleaning, etc. Hate to sound like a commercial but it's only $30/month and I've been real happy with it. I know it's a lot of money if you flat out don't have it, but if you can afford it it's a good route to go IMO.

smoothbean · Post by **smoothbean** » Thu Feb 09, 2012 5:42 pm

Who do you have your insurance through?

Post by **Sharon** » Thu Feb 09, 2012 5:48 pm

Benny wrote:
Buckeye_V wrote:
DIY health care can be a risky one too. You might know how to field stitch your dog and dress wounds, but can you diagnose an infection that could spread once sewn up? Are you also looking out for the other possible injuries our damage to your dog that vets often point out because as owners we're exceptionally tunnel visioned on one ailment.

I agree. My dog had a stick go through his bottom eye lid and up through the top lid ( skewer like wound). I though i could take care of it with aome antibiotic and time to heal. A week later, I felt the dog was still favoring that eye so we went to the vet. Turns out the tear duct was torn and the cornea scratched. Not things the untrained eye would notice. Easy to slap on a few stitches or a bit of glue , but it's the sealed in infection that can cause long term problems.

Post by **ezzy333** » Thu Feb 09, 2012 5:49 pm

Gertie wrote:I put together a good first aid kit and I know how to do the basics but when it comes down to it I appreciate having a good vet that I trust and can take my dog to. I know a lot of folks aren't advocates of the pet insurance but I really like having it. Deductible is $200 and they pick up the bill after that (and usually if there's an incident it's going to be more than that) plus it covers wellness stuff like vaccines, teeth cleaning, etc. Hate to sound like a commercial but it's only $30/month and I've been real happy with it. I know it's a lot of money if you flat out don't have it, but if you can afford it it's a good route to go IMO.

The problem is if you can afford to have it you can afford not to. $360 per dog per year means a lot of us would be paying a thousand or two a year. And that is just plain out of line. As a rule vets are too high priced anymore but when you really need one you have no choice. Our small time vet in Amboy is still reasonable and seems to be making a good living for her family. Our group of six vets here in town just built a new facility even though they had a real nice one already. They employee three office girls and a couple of vet techs and charge twice as much. And even though there are six of them to cover more hours per day they won't do that but will charge you double price if you need help during the off hours.

Like so many other aspects of modern living jobs are just a money maker for most and not a service for your friends and customers to help them when it's needed. Everyone should be able to make a decent wage but it doesn't work that way unless there is competition that forces it.

Ezzy

Gertie · Post by **Gertie** » Thu Feb 09, 2012 6:00 pm

The name of the company I use is Pets Best Insurance but there are a few of them out there. I'm sure I wouldn't be able to afford it if I had more than a couple dogs but as it is I only have the one and it has worked out really well. Too bad everything has to be so dang expensive but that just seems to be the way it is these days. Everything, including the vet, are expensive in the town I currently live in. Makes me really miss my home town sometimes where a trip to the vet didn't cost an arm and a leg, it's still that way out there but there aren't many good jobs out there either. Trade-offs I guess.

nikegundog · Post by **nikegundog** » Thu Feb 09, 2012 7:03 pm

If the economy is having an effect on Vets you sure can't tell it by looking at the size of the new vet clinics that have been built recently. I think young vets need to have a course in business economics, some don't realize if you put up a half a million dollar building you then have to pay for it, then they try to double their fees and their costumers leave and they don't understand.

Post by **ezzy333** » Thu Feb 09, 2012 7:06 pm

nikegundog wrote:If the economy is having an effect on Vets you sure can't tell it by looking at the size of the new vet clinics that have been built recently. I think young vets need to have a course in business economics, some don't realize if you put up a half a million dollar building you then have to pay for it, then they try to double their fees and their costumers leave and they don't understand.

Exactly

Post by **jcbuttry8** » Thu Feb 09, 2012 7:27 pm

I am married to a nurse who has stitched up more of my dogs than my kids. She is an ER nurse. So, I kinda think if she is good enough to fix everyone that walks into the ER then my dogs are fine. One of the dr's that she works with is dating a Vet. When, Kona ended up with kennel cough I vaccinated her with the shot myself and asked the Vet if we need to bring her in to get some meds she said no. Just give her some of the cough syrup that you have for the kids. It is the same thing. Now, I spend 10 bucks on that but the vet wants to charge a lot more for the same thing. That is a problem.

I give all my shots to my dog. I only go to the vet when needed. Sorry, if the Vet industry is hurting. Just have them open the blinds and look at the rest of the world. We are all in the same boat. Times are hard everywhere. They just took a little longer to see the effects. I have seen three of my friends put down their pets due to a surgery that was way to expensive for them to pay for and the vet told them their option was the the big shot if they couldn't afford the surgery.

Joe

wberry85 · Post by **wberry85** » Thu Feb 09, 2012 8:18 pm

Vets rob you blind where I live. Kills me when I dump several hundreds into something I could have easily taken care of myself. Half the time the vet doesnt even get it right and you end up going back for something they missed and it costs you even more. I am done with vets unless the dog needs surgery or its something that is over my head. I used to take my dog in for every scratch but when I watch them patch him up with stuff I can get from my local drug store and then slap me with a $200 bill at the counter its just not much motivation for me to come back next time. If vets want more business they need to get realistic about cost and not charge me a minimum of a hundred bucks every time I walk through the door.

SD Pheasant Slayer · Post by **SD Pheasant Slayer** » Thu Feb 09, 2012 9:27 pm

wberry85 wrote: I used to take my dog in for every scratch but when I watch them patch him up with stuff I can get from my local drug store and then slap me with a $200 bill at the counter its just not much motivation for me to come back next time.

How did your vet prep the wound? Did he/she use surgical scrub? Perhaps it was iodine? Or alcohol? What did he/she do to ensure that your dog didn't end up with razor burn from clipper? What did your vet choose for a lavage fluid? Lactated ringer? Distilled water? Isotonic saline? Did your vet debride the wound? Was that necessary? How much did tissue did he/she take? What type of suture material did your vet use? Braided? Monofilament? Absorbable? Synthetic? What size suture was used? How about the needle? Was it taper point? Cutting? Reverse cutting? Was suture pattern did he/she choose? Continuous or interrupted? How far apart were the sutures? Did he/she need to worry about closing up the subcutaneous dead space? Did your dog need antibiotics? Which drug?

Can you make all those decisions and explain why your choices were the best for your dog? I bet your vet can. The point is that anyone that thinks they can do a vet's job on their own is delusional. Sure, anyone can sew their dog up with supplies from the local drug store, but that doesn't mean they're doing it well. Each and every one of those decisions plays a role in your dog's recovery. Are some of them somewhat trivial? Absolutely - but the benefits to making the right decisions are cumulative. The reason your vet charges you X dollars is because he/she spent at least 4 years and well over $100,000 (and that's not even counting undergraduate work) acquiring the knowledge to not only execute the simple stitches, but to make a dozen decisions to maximize the likelihood of a positive outcome. You all can go on doing what you're doing, and for the most part, you'll probably get by okay. But as Sharon alluded to, there are factors at play that most people don't even know exist, and it only takes one poor decision or a little bad luck to cost you. And then that $200 is going to look pretty cheap.

nikegundog · Post by **nikegundog** » Thu Feb 09, 2012 9:41 pm

Some vets will charge $130 for x-rays for OFA then others will charge $550 for the same procedure.

rkappes · Post by **rkappes** » Fri Feb 10, 2012 7:05 am

I thought about pet insurance at one point, I still think about it, but I took someone's advice and started putting the $50+ per month that I'd pay for the insurance into a seperate checking account for dog 'stuff' and now I have a nice chunk of $$$ to use if needed. The plus, if we don't end up using that money at least we still have it and it wasn't spent on premiums. Down the road maybe a chunk of it can be used to purchase a puppy

I see both sides of 'to insure' and 'not to insure'. I suppose insurance does give you a peace of mind espcially if you go the route I did saving money because initially you don't have a lot saved up. I figured at the beginning of my saving if any catastrophic events happened I'd just have to use my credit card.

Buckeye_V · Post by **Buckeye_V** » Fri Feb 10, 2012 7:37 am

It is true that some vets charge way more than theyneed to. We got to a vet that has reasonable rates and I never bat an eye when they give me the bill. Like any business (read between the lines - in business to keep their doors open and to feed their families) went through the risk to open their practice and invest their money and has every right to reap their reward that comes with that risk. I can't stand going to class and taking tests, so I go to them for their expertise and I happily pay for it. it's no different than a mechanic or repairman or anything other good or service I pay for. Only, these dogs are part of my family and worth every penny. I spend wisely, for sure, but I use common sense in when to take them to the vet.

Everyone is going to do what they think is best, but understand there are many of us who recognize where the value of a good vet comes in. I have a good one and I am quite lucky, I understand.

Hookadooka BirdDogs · Post by **Hookadooka BirdDogs** » Fri Feb 10, 2012 7:59 am

About 5 years ago our granddaughter brought a yard sale give away kitten to us. It had it's tail partially chewed off by a raccoon, but survived. It took no crap from our Llewellins' at all.
Last summer it got out of the house and over the fence only to be swooped up by a large barn owl, flown away, but returned home around midnight, dragging its way up to our front door. We got it to the vet in the morning, He repaired some deep wounds on its leg and found it's hip cracked at the leg socket, presumably from being dropped by the owl from some distance.

I never thought we would spend $1000. on a give away cat, but he gives our family so much joy. Our vet did a wonderful job.Well worth the money.

I didn't get to hunt as much this winter because the grand came out of my hunt funds.

The cat is our #4 partner playing Wahoo (marbles). He loves to bat dice and marbles on the floor from his chair.

I also am one to give my dogs shots at home though.

Karen · Post by **Karen** » Fri Feb 10, 2012 8:09 am

I give shots at home, see the vet when someone is sick, and have rabies done in the office. I can't afford 6 dogs AND a monthly trip to the vet for shots. The dogs are all house dogs, and 4 of the 6 are shown, so all are groomed frequently, so we know pretty fast when someone isn't feeling well or is developing a lump, bump or something abnormal.

markj · Post by **markj** » Fri Feb 10, 2012 3:24 pm

Me dear old mommy was a scrub nurse, she assisted many an operation and has the tools needed if it is too large for me to do. The country vet will come out to look over the cattle for 35.00 and if asked he will bring stuff for the dogs, usual shot fee is 8 or 9 bucks. City vets cost me 24 for a shot and an examination fee whatever that is. My cousin is a vet tech too but I dont use them. I call the old Doc up and he comes out day or night. But after doing it ourselves all my life wel.... why stop now?

prairiefirepointers · Post by **prairiefirepointers** » Fri Feb 10, 2012 4:11 pm

topher40 wrote:Surely never hurts to know how to do it yourself, regardless of the number of dogs or the economy. I have saved myself THOUSANDS over the years knowing what to do. Knowledge is power.

+1

I don't hesitate to call the vet when I need to though. I have an outstanding vet. Cute little country gal

I do try and keep on hand metacam, cephalexin, wormers and all that kind of stuff. Heck this fall when I got a nasty cold, I raided the dog med cabinet for the fish antibiotics! I have healthcare, but if I have it here, I'm not too good to use it.

tahi193 · Post by **tahi193** » Sat Feb 11, 2012 10:50 am

I noticed that my vet recently started opening for half a day on Saturdays. Looks like she's trying to reel in more business. When I was going in for puppy shots back in the summer, I was usually the only person there.

prairiefirepointers · Post by **prairiefirepointers** » Sat Feb 11, 2012 11:40 am

If you want to make yourself sick, go in and have them give your dogs the vaccinations and pay your bill. Then next time go in and ask to buy the vaccinations to give them yourself. Go home, take out both receipts and compare the two. It'll churn your stomach to know how much they charged you to draw out and mix the vaccine, then re-draw and push a plunger down on a syringe.

Winchey · Post by **Winchey** » Sat Feb 11, 2012 12:00 pm

I like our vet. Doesn't even charge us half the time for minor stuff. Always try's to talk me out of vaccination he doesn't think we need. And showed me the proper dosages for Ivermectin so I wouldn't have to buy Revolution or Sentinel from him.

SetterNut · Post by **SetterNut** » Sat Feb 11, 2012 12:07 pm

bb560m wrote:Cost me $450 for a barbed wire accident - 4 stitches x 2 spots (total of 8 stitches). I imagine he'll only get into more accidents. How hard is it to suture yourself?

Holly Cow, I thought that my Vet was pricy. I had about the some cuts on my pup the last day of the seaon. It was about $110.
I asked the vet to let me watch the process of cleaning it up and stapling the cuts. It is really simple.

The Vet hunts with bird dogs as well and knows that there are times that you need to take care of this stuff when you are away from home.
I looked on line and for about $30 -40 you can get everything you need to fix those type of cuts up.

bluestemkennels · Post by **bluestemkennels** » Sat Feb 11, 2012 2:55 pm

Karen wrote:I give shots at home, see the vet when someone is sick, and have rabies done in the office. I can't afford 6 dogs AND a monthly trip to the vet for shots. The dogs are all house dogs, and 4 of the 6 are shown, so all are groomed frequently, so we know pretty fast when someone isn't feeling well or is developing a lump, bump or something abnormal.

This is a great way to spend your vet dollars wisely. Shots are easy. Save a few bucks here, then utilize the vet for the complex stuff (cuts etc). Our vet actually supports this approach. We detail out our home vaccine and worming program to the vet so they have a record of it. Talk through what you are doing with your vet. They are reasonable people and should understand your motivations.

(My dad used to stitch up dogs on his own, but after a tour in Vietnam as a medic, I would say that he was qualified. Heck, he used to patch me up too

.)

My .02,

Bluestem

Fester · Post by **Fester** » Sat Feb 11, 2012 6:42 pm

Its sad that a trip to the Vet has to turn into a rip off, I feel very fortunate to live where I have an old down to earth bird dog vet, he removed dew claws off 9 pups for 45 bucks I hope he live to be 100
Fester

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