Couple of dog questions for a new hunter.

Ghosted3 · Post by **Ghosted3** » Sat Mar 10, 2012 11:38 pm

I would like to apologize for these questions in advance if they seem silly for those of you who have been hunting for awhile. I was just wondering if breeds such as a springer spaniel will flush and retrieve off of instinct, or are those things that need to be trained to do? I was also wondering if there is a "better breed" for someone who is just beginning to hunt with a dog. Thanks for your time and feedback I really appreciate it.

Corry

dakotashooter2 · Post by **dakotashooter2** » Sun Mar 11, 2012 12:27 am

I just got my 3rd springer (pup). My first 2 both showed a lot of natural instinct when it came to flushing and retrieving. Training has basically been fine tuning those instincts. My 10 week old will chase down a ball and bring it back several times before getting bored. My first springer quartered beautifully when working cover with only the training involving not ranging out too far. My first springer I couldn't keep out of the water my second one was a bit more reluctant and had to be persuaded to go in swimming depth water but both would retrieve in water also. The one issue I have had with springers if you want to call it a problem is that they are pretty much a nose oriented hunter. They don't seem to "see" game right in front of them. It can be in plain view and if they don't smell it they will walk past. My previous 2 springers were large for the breed. Both weighed in at around 65# but were by no means overweight. My current pup came from stock that runs 35#-45# but that about what the parents of my other two were so who knows. It kind of defeated my original intent of having a multi use dog smaller than a lab. They are not as cold tollerant as labs when used in the water. My previous springers had no fear of big Canada geese. They had a hard time retrieving them but would run them down and bowl them over.

cjhills · Post by **cjhills** » Sun Mar 11, 2012 7:01 am

Very hard to beat a well bred springer for pheasant hunting. This from a GSP guy

DonF · Post by **DonF** » Sun Mar 11, 2012 8:26 am

Nothing beats a springer for pheasants in heavy cover. I've had several and there wasn't much to training them. They just didn't run off but had to be able to stop them on a trail if the bird was running. Pretty much natural retriever's just coax them back with whatever you threw for them, easy to get them using their nose, hide things for them and take them out to look for it. When you get ready for birds, use birds with the flight feather's cut. Makes them think they can catch them all and help's keep them from blinking.

DougB · Post by **DougB** » Sun Mar 11, 2012 8:45 am

Springers come in field bred and bench bred varieties. Almost two different breeds, as they have been carefully bred for a lot of generations for their specific function. Both will hunt, but on average the FB has more drive and hunt, and hair and body bred for the field. The BB is truly beautiful, in a long tangly haired way. The FB probably is born with more hunt knowledge than the average hunter. The dogs like to hunt in close,where they can see their boss and will quarter naturally. Training will of course improve every thing, including the hunters ability to read the dog. Always know where your dog is when you shoot, as flushers are frequently grabbing tail feathers when birds jump. Mine has saved me some shells by just bringing back birds she took out of the air-apparently she doesn't trust my shooting much any more.
Regarding the retrieve, my little girl will not chase balls or the dummy. But her birds are brought back with pride and elan. Not probably proper, but she holds the bird high and struts back to me, walks around me a couple of times to be sure I see how wonderful she is, then gives me the bird.
Be aware that a young ESS well bred for hunting, can be a lunatic in the house for a few years. Very high energy level. They do settle down.

If you want a dog for hunting and family pet, that looks good, really wants to please, and is not found on every street, the ESS is a great choice. But I am a little partial.

Post by **Sharon** » Sun Mar 11, 2012 1:16 pm

Ghosted3 wrote:I would like to apologize for these questions in advance if they seem silly for those of you who have been hunting for awhile. I was just wondering if breeds such as a springer spaniel will flush and retrieve off of instinct, or are those things that need to be trained to do? I was also wondering if there is a "better breed" for someone who is just beginning to hunt with a dog. Thanks for your time and feedback I really appreciate it.

Corry

One would hope they were starting with a bundle of great instinct, but training is still needed. You don't just want the dog to flush and retrieve , you want the dog to flush and retrieve when asked.
i think a well bred lab is the easiest dog for a new trainer to teach. They are so co-operative/tractable. The kind of hunting you intend to do , should influence your dog choice. Good question.

Ralph Ford · Post by **Ralph Ford** » Sun Mar 11, 2012 1:25 pm

Have you ruled out the pointing breeds?

bossman · Post by **bossman** » Sun Mar 11, 2012 1:32 pm

Yeah...What is the primary bird you will be hunting?

Ghosted3 · Post by **Ghosted3** » Sun Mar 11, 2012 2:10 pm

I will mostly be hunting dove, quail, pheasant, and duck. The breed that I really wanted was a GSP, but with a wife that is allergic to short haired breeds and doesn't really want a larger dog, after some research it looked to me as if a ESS was a perfect fit for myself, the Mrs., as well as our 2 kids.

Again, thank you all for the feedback!

Corry

Ryman Gun Dog · Post by **Ryman Gun Dog** » Sun Mar 11, 2012 4:20 pm

Corry,
There are lots of good hunting dog breeds, you need to do a little home work as to which you like to hunt behind and what your home needs are also. ESS dogs can be a handful for a 1st time owner/trainer, not that they bad dogs either, you must realize 1st they are a high energy dog, both in the field and home. I love these ESS dogs to death, but as Ken use to tell me, they are not for everyone.
Investigate which kind of dog you would most like to hunt behind, if you can see the dogs hunt do it, ask questions about HD and other health issures of the breed, then make your decission. This decission also depends on where you live and what you are going to hunt most with your dog.
RGD/Dave

Ron R · Post by **Ron R** » Sun Mar 11, 2012 4:28 pm

Ghosted3 wrote: I was also wondering if there is a "better breed" for someone who is just beginning to hunt with a dog.

English Pointer, German Shorthaired Pointer (GSP), Brittany, English Setter. Not in any particular order. It's just easy and affordable to get a good one and most take very little effort to become hunt broke. Good Luck.

JIM K · Post by **JIM K** » Sun Mar 11, 2012 9:39 pm

no expert, only what i see.
springers will retrieve if trained to do it.
i have yet to see one that does.
why? i can only guess that owners did not train them to do so.
high octane dogs.

my friend has 2. he lets them out of truck to hunt grouse.THEY TAKE OFF.go out 50 yds.

FLUSH pheasants out of range to shoot.

hunters shoot anyways at 100 yds in air, dont laugh, i see it every year at sgl252 ,
they are hunting machines but if not trained to hunt close and retrieve, get your walking shoes on.

Francois P vd Walt · Post by **Francois P vd Walt** » Mon Mar 12, 2012 12:55 am

As a novice myself....

The most importend will be to get the right dog for your need. You can train a Jack Russel to retrieve, but it is not in their make up.

Make sure you go and look at the breeds history and what were they bred to do origenally. Pointers are great if you like them but could hate them if you were looking for a brittan they to point and retrieve, but is by far a better lapdog due to its size. Springers should flush and retrieve that is what they were bred for even geese they will push them out and drag them to land, just MAKE SURE YOU BUY FROM WELL BRED HUNTING LINES !

Ghosted3 · Post by **Ghosted3** » Mon Mar 12, 2012 6:30 pm

The main issues that I have at the moment are 1) my wife is allergic to short haired breeds of dogs, 2) she doesn't want a larger dog inside, otherwise I would have purchased a GSP by now lol. My wife's allergies have led me down the path of ESS, Brittanies, and GWP. I am wanting to do some waterfowl hunting on the side so that kind of ruled out Brits....and the wife not wanting the a larger breed kinda rules out the GWP

Gotta love balancing the fam. and having fun.

Thanks,
Corry

MillerClemsonHD · Post by **MillerClemsonHD** » Tue Mar 13, 2012 7:00 am

Look at Boykins. There are some good breeders in SC still breeding working dogs and not just pets. They love to retrieve especially from water. They do great in a dove field. They are also smaller dogs that are great in the house.

Ghosted3 wrote:The main issues that I have at the moment are 1) my wife is allergic to short haired breeds of dogs, 2) she doesn't want a larger dog inside, otherwise I would have purchased a GSP by now lol. My wife's allergies have led me down the path of ESS, Brittanies, and GWP. I am wanting to do some waterfowl hunting on the side so that kind of ruled out Brits....and the wife not wanting the a larger breed kinda rules out the GWP Gotta love balancing the fam. and having fun.

Thanks,
Corry

AHGSP · Post by **AHGSP** » Tue Mar 13, 2012 7:18 am

There are those that will laugh, but personally, I think there is a pretty serious cool factor and they fit your bill for hunting both Upland and Waterfowl, are Hypo-allergenic and should measure just over 15" at the whithers..... a STANDARD POODLE.
To add to that, I could point you to a Breeder in GA, Louter Creek Hunting Poodles, that are proving their dogs in all of the Retrieving venues at Master level.
http://www.redhuntingpoodles.com/

fishvik · Post by **fishvik** » Tue Mar 13, 2012 7:29 am

MillerClemsonHD wrote:Look at Boykins.

Either Boykins or even an English Cocker. But from my experience for a new dog using hunter, a flushing breed is easier to train than a pointing one. Generally they just need to stay closer to the hunter, find, flush and bring back a hit bird. Most of the training is obedience and in my opinion the rest comes from just liking to feel feathers in their mouth.

aulrich · Post by **aulrich** » Tue Mar 13, 2012 8:02 am

Allergies had kept me out of the game for all of my life up till now + 8 weeks or so. But over Christmas break my wife was walking and saw what she thought was a lovely dog, not too big but not a punter, turns out the dog was a Large Munsterlander, her big sell to me was it hunts too! To make a long story short we were able to connect with that person through the breeder and was able to do a snif test, and they passed.
And now we have a deposit down on a puppy that was born in the last day or two(have not heard officially).

The pups we saw after the initial excitment of new people settled down pretty well.

For me , and without actual medical test , it looks like the oily coated breeds were the bigget offenders I could tell a lab was in the room in about 5 min.

RayGubernat · Post by **RayGubernat** » Tue Mar 13, 2012 8:17 am

Corry -

I would be careful about the allergy thing. I personally have never heard of someone being allergic to JUST short haired dogs. I'm not saying it ain't so, just that , well, animal dander is animal dander and all working dogs I am aware of, except poodles...shed. I personally would have your spouse go through a sensitivity test before you bring a dog home and fall in love with it...only to have to ship it off. That would suck. Finding out if your wife is allergic to the breed of dog you wish to bring into your home is only being fair to both her and the dog, IMO.

If it comes to it, keeping a dog outside might turn out to be your only viable option. Honestly, for most sporting breeds, it is a very workable option. For a breed like a pointer or GSP...they do just fine in an outside kennel as long as you mess with them on a daily basis. Sooo, you could get your shorthair if that is what works best for you in the field.

Just something to consider.

RayG

Benny · Post by **Benny** » Tue Mar 13, 2012 11:10 am

RayGubernat wrote:Corry -

I would be careful about the allergy thing. I personally have never heard of someone being allergic to JUST short haired dogs. I'm not saying it ain't so, just that , well, animal dander is animal dander and all working dogs I am aware of, except poodles...shed. I personally would have your spouse go through a sensitivity test before you bring a dog home and fall in love with it...only to have to ship it off. That would suck. Finding out if your wife is allergic to the breed of dog you wish to bring into your home is only being fair to both her and the dog, IMO.

If it comes to it, keeping a dog outside might turn out to be your only viable option. Honestly, for most sporting breeds, it is a very workable option. For a breed like a pointer or GSP...they do just fine in an outside kennel as long as you mess with them on a daily basis. Sooo, you could get your shorthair if that is what works best for you in the field.

Just something to consider.

RayG

+1 That might be the ultimate solution. I can't imagine an allergy bias to shorthairs and springers. I can imagine a general bias though

nikegundog · Post by **nikegundog** » Tue Mar 13, 2012 8:45 pm

My springer runs outside and is the mildest mannered dog I've ever had in the house. Like any dog if you don't train it, it will run on you, a little time in the field is all it takes to get them quartering within range. If you want a duck dog that retrieves like a lab, by all means buy a lab because few dogs will come close to their retrieving abilities. If you want a great pheasant dog that also retrieves ducks a springer is a great choice. As stated previously get a field bred springer not a bench bred one. The downside is their hair collects everything in the field, cutting burrs off him is a daily activety.

birddogger · Post by **birddogger** » Tue Mar 13, 2012 8:57 pm

Benny wrote:
RayGubernat wrote:Corry -

I would be careful about the allergy thing. I personally have never heard of someone being allergic to JUST short haired dogs. I'm not saying it ain't so, just that , well, animal dander is animal dander and all working dogs I am aware of, except poodles...shed. I personally would have your spouse go through a sensitivity test before you bring a dog home and fall in love with it...only to have to ship it off. That would suck. Finding out if your wife is allergic to the breed of dog you wish to bring into your home is only being fair to both her and the dog, IMO.

If it comes to it, keeping a dog outside might turn out to be your only viable option. Honestly, for most sporting breeds, it is a very workable option. For a breed like a pointer or GSP...they do just fine in an outside kennel as long as you mess with them on a daily basis. Sooo, you could get your shorthair if that is what works best for you in the field.

Just something to consider.

RayG
+1 That might be the ultimate solution. I can't imagine an allergy bias to shorthairs and springers. I can imagine a general bias though

+2

Charlie

Ghosted3 · Post by **Ghosted3** » Tue Mar 13, 2012 9:32 pm

I am not really sure how to explain the allergy thing, long story short when we met I had a pekingese and a doberman both in my home. If the Doby would lick her, rub against her, or she would pet him, instant sneezing and hives would appear, sadly he had to go outside (I treat my dogs like family and want them in the home with me). The pek. he is has been in the house the whole time, my wife does have issues with him from time to time, but nothing like the doby. She can hold him for 30 min or so and have like a small red spot on her wrist or her eyes may get a little puffy once in awhile, but she can easily tolerate the longer haired breeds than she can the shorter haired ones. I am not sure if its the extra shedding issues or what not.

My wife did agree with a few of some of the previous posters about maybe just keeping the dog outside for the most part... I have always just liked the idea of the dog inside with the family. Illinois s known to have some crappy winters lol.

Corry

Post by **ezzy333** » Tue Mar 13, 2012 9:43 pm

Very true about the IL winters but we have never had one that the dogs couldn't handle very well with a good run and good dog house. We have in the past when the winters were colder and snowier had 15 to 30 dogs out in unheated houses and never had an issue.

Ezzy

Ghosted3 · Post by **Ghosted3** » Tue Mar 13, 2012 9:58 pm

Lol right now we are in deal mode... She is trying to get what she can outta me for what I want for hunting... She really wants a Yorkie *sob*

Linescreamer · Post by **Linescreamer** » Wed Mar 14, 2012 9:47 am

There's an old saying - keep the fish throw back the old lady.

I have a V, he's the cat's meow. However, you can't do waterfowl with him below 40 degrees.

RoostersMom · Post by **RoostersMom** » Wed Mar 14, 2012 10:28 am

Sorta off topic, but has she been to an allergist? There are shots and things she can do to manage an allergy. My dad is severely allergic to dogs and has 2. I would suggest a doc's visit to an allergist and some type of shot regime. She might have already done that if so... just get the breed you like and keep up with a good grooming regime. A good quality or raw diet also seems to keep the dander and fur from flying as much.

DougB · Post by **DougB** » Wed Mar 14, 2012 10:39 am

Ghosted3 wrote:Lol right now we are in deal mode... She is trying to get what she can outta me for what I want for hunting... She really wants a Yorkie *sob*

Great for muskie fishing.

Ghosted3 · Post by **Ghosted3** » Wed Mar 14, 2012 11:50 pm

RoostersMom wrote:Sorta off topic, but has she been to an allergist? There are shots and things she can do to manage an allergy. My dad is severely allergic to dogs and has 2. I would suggest a doc's visit to an allergist and some type of shot regime. She might have already done that if so... just get the breed you like and keep up with a good grooming regime. A good quality or raw diet also seems to keep the dander and fur from flying as much.

Ya she went through that twice, once in early teens, then again when she was 20 I believe to see if she outgrew any of them. She is currently talking Singulair for her asthma which also has allergy meds in it as well, and she has tried taking zyrtek on the side too and she said she cant tell a difference. At least she is willing to work with me. Gonna buy a new vacuum to help keep the hair down, and try to have the dog in the house when she is either gone or in bed, ect. ect..

deke · Post by **deke** » Thu Mar 15, 2012 9:56 am

My girlfriend has the same thing. If our pup lays on her or touches her she gets a red spot on her and soon it turns into hives. Our older dog can cuddle her on the couch all day with no reprecussion. they are both labs, eat the same food, and get the same everything. Mind Blowing.

Gun Dog Forum

Couple of dog questions for a new hunter.

Couple of dog questions for a new hunter.

Re: Couple of dog questions for a new hunter.

Re: Couple of dog questions for a new hunter.

Re: Couple of dog questions for a new hunter.

Re: Couple of dog questions for a new hunter.

Re: Couple of dog questions for a new hunter.

Re: Couple of dog questions for a new hunter.

Re: Couple of dog questions for a new hunter.

Re: Couple of dog questions for a new hunter.

Re: Couple of dog questions for a new hunter.

Re: Couple of dog questions for a new hunter.

Re: Couple of dog questions for a new hunter.

Re: Couple of dog questions for a new hunter.

Re: Couple of dog questions for a new hunter.

Re: Couple of dog questions for a new hunter.

Re: Couple of dog questions for a new hunter.

Re: Couple of dog questions for a new hunter.

Re: Couple of dog questions for a new hunter.

Re: Couple of dog questions for a new hunter.

Re: Couple of dog questions for a new hunter.

Re: Couple of dog questions for a new hunter.

Re: Couple of dog questions for a new hunter.

Re: Couple of dog questions for a new hunter.

Re: Couple of dog questions for a new hunter.

Re: Couple of dog questions for a new hunter.

Re: Couple of dog questions for a new hunter.

Re: Couple of dog questions for a new hunter.

Re: Couple of dog questions for a new hunter.

Re: Couple of dog questions for a new hunter.

Re: Couple of dog questions for a new hunter.