A True Versatile Gun Dog
A True Versatile Gun Dog
He moved the cows and put the horses away so we could shoot, then retrieved all to beer cooler as trained. Hasn't been beat in a FRPSA (Fresno Redneck Porch Shooters Association) event to date. Helps that he is the only dog entered I guess. But we have some new prospects that look promising.
“Heaven goes by favor. If it went by merit, you would stay out and your dog would go in.”
- Mark Twain-
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Re: A True Versatile Gun Dog
But he's not german so he stinks
Good dog!
Good dog!
We have done something with nothing for so long we are now qualified to do everything with anything....
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- Cajun Casey
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Re: A True Versatile Gun Dog
I hope the guy with the heeler mix pup sees this.
Never try to teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time and annoys the pig.
Re: A True Versatile Gun Dog
I know the Australian/Fresneck training and conditioning methods are a bit unconventional but it has seemed to pay great dividends around the porch.Buckeye_V wrote:But he's not german so he stinks
Good dog!
1. You must leave the dog with your friends free feeding mother in the off season. (We found through our annual event that the Dog is much more likely to hold tight in the blind until shots are fired. To those who are new to the sport this is often confused with sleeping under the porch. It does take a trained eye to notice the nuances of the sport)
2. Make sure that tail is nice and tight so it doesn't knock over your beverage.
“Heaven goes by favor. If it went by merit, you would stay out and your dog would go in.”
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Re: A True Versatile Gun Dog
But the big question is, will he guard your truck?
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Re: A True Versatile Gun Dog
Cajun Casey wrote:I hope the guy with the heeler mix pup sees this.
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Re: A True Versatile Gun Dog
ElhewPointer wrote:But the big question is, will he guard your truck?
The word Versatile, as used by Bird Hunters is a canard, and disingenuous in how its used and errantly applied by so many here.
It means a dog that can switch gears, is under control, and can hunt Fur, Feather and Waterfowl, sometimes in the same day, under any conditions.
If it can guard, that for me is a bonus.
I also hunted with an offbreed, owned a few GSDs, and took them along, Not quite the same performance but I learned a little bit. The irony of this thread, is that that Cattle Dog is probably more Versatile than most of the trial hounds here.
If you want to see the definition of a real American Versatile Dog, this is it...video..
Elk recovery for the state, Deer, Dove, Duck, Hog, Quail & Phez with the same dog, and its all in the day for the breed, if one knows the breed.
http://www.vommoorehaus.com/truly-versatile-video.php
Re: A True Versatile Gun Dog
Bill your deffinition of versatile is way different then the FRPSA definition. I would very much appreciate it if you would withhold further comment until you are thoroughly familiar with the official rules of the event.BillThomas wrote:ElhewPointer wrote:But the big question is, will he guard your truck?
The word Versatile, as used by Bird Hunters is a canard, and disingenuous in how its used and errantly applied by so many here.
It means a dog that can switch gears, is under control, and can hunt Fur, Feather and Waterfowl, sometimes in the same day, under any conditions.
If it can guard, that for me is a bonus.
I also hunted with an offbreed, owned a few GSDs, and took them along, Not quite the same performance but I learned a little bit. The irony of this thread, is that that Cattle Dog is probably more Versatile than most of the trial hounds here.
If you want to see the definition of a real American Versatile Dog, this is it...video..Elk, Deer, ove, Duck, Hog Quail & Phez
http://www.vommoorehaus.com/truly-versatile-video.php
Example In section 2.3 you would of also noticed that a dog must be steady on all unattended Tri-tip sandwiches and never cross the path of a horseshoe pit while a game is in progress.
You just can't know these things until you have participated.
Thanks
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Re: A True Versatile Gun Dog
Garrison wrote: Bill your deffinition of versatile is way different then the FRPSA definition. I would very much appreciate it if you would withhold further comment until you are thoroughly familiar with the official rules of the event.
The Concept OF The Versatile Dog was develeoped IN Europe, Coined IN Europe and elsewhere, is still practiced IN Europe by the Umbrella agency for the repesctive breed clubs.
I simply paraphrase their definition. Id appreciate if Youd use the Correct definition of the word Versatile as it applies TO European dogs and hunting tradition, not horseshoes, social events and/or Not a dictionary version.
I really dont think youd know a Versatile dog if it bit you in the rear end.
Fetching doves doesnt make a dog Versatile, nor does fetching bumpers from a lake, or fish, or teaching your dog tricks..
"The JGV-USA is a full member organization of the JGHV (Jagdgebrauchshundverband) in Germany.
The JGHV is the umbrella organization of all versatile hunting dog clubs in Germany.
They have been largely responsible for the immense success of the German performance based breeding system by providing standardized tests for all versatile hunting dogs.
Existing for almost a century now, JGHV testing standards bind all breeding organizations, including those represented here in the U.S. By evaluating the breeding quality of dogs through examination of their performance record and that of their offspring, German breeders consistently produce dogs most suitable for the modern foot hunter.
These dogs exhibit a high degree of cooperation and trainability coupled with the ability to handle any game their master desires to hunt.'
The Deutsch Drahthaar was created in Germany in the late 19th century by a small group of dedicated breeders who set out to develop a versatile hunting dog that would satisfy all aspects of German hunting in field, forest, and water.
This group of breeders succeeded in creating a versatile hunting dog that took its traits from the best dogs of the existing coarse hair breeds, cross bred with the shorthair blood. These ancestors included the Stichelhaar, Pudelpointer, Griffon, and the Deutsch-Kurzhaar.
Organization Structure:
Jagdgebrauchshundverband
A testing organization that establishes standards for the testing of all versatile dogs.
Versatile Breed Associations
Several versatile breed associations conform to the standard testing regulations of the Jagdgebrauchshundverband. Verein Deutsch Drahthaar is a versatile breed association with established breeding requirements for maintaining and improving the Deutsch Drahthaar breed.
Group North America
One of thirty-four member groups of the Verein Deutsch Drahthaar that adheres to requirements for the breeding and testing of Deutsch Drahthaar.
Last edited by BillThomas on Wed Jun 13, 2012 1:59 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: A True Versatile Gun Dog
"Bill your deffinition of versatile is way different then the FRPSA definition. I would very much appreciate it if you would withhold further comment until you are thoroughly familiar with the official rules of the event.
Example In section 2.3 you would of also noticed that a dog must be steady on all unattended Tri-tip sandwiches and never cross the path of a horseshoe pit while a game is in progress.
You just can't know these things until you have participated.
Thanks"
That is funny right there!
Example In section 2.3 you would of also noticed that a dog must be steady on all unattended Tri-tip sandwiches and never cross the path of a horseshoe pit while a game is in progress.
You just can't know these things until you have participated.
Thanks"
That is funny right there!
Re: A True Versatile Gun Dog
What are the membership dues and when do you guys have training days?
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Re: A True Versatile Gun Dog
Does the FRPSA also include getting the newspaper? And if so, does the Sunday paper recieve more points?
Re: A True Versatile Gun Dog
Bill, this is my association developed in Fresno and it is our definition for American bred dogs, once again I would appreciate it if you would stop pushing your views of what a Versatile hunting dog should be on me and my fellow competitors. Germany does not own the word Versatile, especially as it applies to the FRPSA. Thank you for your consideration in this matter.BillThomas wrote:Garrison wrote: Bill your deffinition of versatile is way different then the FRPSA definition. I would very much appreciate it if you would withhold further comment until you are thoroughly familiar with the official rules of the event.
The Concept OF The Versatile Dog was develeoped IN Europe, Coined IN Europe and elsewhere, is still practiced IN Europe by the Umbrella agency for the repesctive breed clubs.
I simply paraphrase their definition. Id appreciate if Youd use the Correct definition of the word Versatile as it applies TO European dogs and hunting tradition, not horseshoes, social events and/or Not a dictionary version.
I really dont think youd know a Versatile dog if it bit you in the rear end.
Fetching doves doesnt make a dog Versatile, nor does fetching bumpers from a lake, or fish, or teaching your dog tricks..
"The JGV-USA is a full member organization of the JGHV (Jagdgebrauchshundverband) in Germany.
The JGHV is the umbrella organization of all versatile hunting dog clubs in Germany.
They have been largely responsible for the immense success of the German performance based breeding system by providing standardized tests for all versatile hunting dogs.
Existing for almost a century now, JGHV testing standards bind all breeding organizations, including those represented here in the U.S. By evaluating the breeding quality of dogs through examination of their performance record and that of their offspring, German breeders consistently produce dogs most suitable for the modern foot hunter.
These dogs exhibit a high degree of cooperation and trainability coupled with the ability to handle any game their master desires to hunt.'
The Deutsch Drahthaar was created in Germany in the late 19th century by a small group of dedicated breeders who set out to develop a versatile hunting dog that would satisfy all aspects of German hunting in field, forest, and water.
This group of breeders succeeded in creating a versatile hunting dog that took its traits from the best dogs of the existing coarse hair breeds, cross bred with the shorthair blood. These ancestors included the Stichelhaar, Pudelpointer, Griffon, and the Deutsch-Kurzhaar.
Organization Structure:
Jagdgebrauchshundverband
A testing organization that establishes standards for the testing of all versatile dogs.
Versatile Breed Associations
Several versatile breed associations conform to the standard testing regulations of the Jagdgebrauchshundverband. Verein Deutsch Drahthaar is a versatile breed association with established breeding requirements for maintaining and improving the Deutsch Drahthaar breed.
Group North America
One of thirty-four member groups of the Verein Deutsch Drahthaar that adheres to requirements for the breeding and testing of Deutsch Drahthaar.
“Heaven goes by favor. If it went by merit, you would stay out and your dog would go in.”
- Mark Twain-
- Mark Twain-
Re: A True Versatile Gun Dog
You were grandfathered in! A little gas money and a 12 pack.brad27 wrote:What are the membership dues and when do you guys have training days?
“Heaven goes by favor. If it went by merit, you would stay out and your dog would go in.”
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Re: A True Versatile Gun Dog
brad27 wrote:What are the membership dues and when do you guys have training days?
I bet a case of beer would cover it
- ElhewPointer
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Re: A True Versatile Gun Dog
ver·sa·tile/ˈvərsətl/
Adjective: 1.Able to adapt or be adapted to many different functions or activities
Id say the dog meets the "standard". According to Webster and the FRPSA.
Adjective: 1.Able to adapt or be adapted to many different functions or activities
Id say the dog meets the "standard". According to Webster and the FRPSA.
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Re: A True Versatile Gun Dog
What in the bloody heck does Websters know about the concept of Versatile Dogs?ElhewPointer wrote:ver·sa·tile/ˈvərsətl/
Adjective: 1.Able to adapt or be adapted to many different functions or activities
Id say the dog meets the "standard". According to Webster and the FRPSA.
The broad definition of 'versatile' is being misapplied TO euro hunting dogs.
Im telling you that the Creators/Founders of these types of dogs defined what, how and why, and its clearly provided.
You make yourself look foolish quoting Websters, Wiki or other non hunting sources.
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Re: A True Versatile Gun Dog
Bill, Bill, Bill. These are the FRPSA standards. Sorry, just playing by the guidelines.BillThomas wrote:What in the bloody heck does Websters know about the concept of Versatile Dogs?ElhewPointer wrote:ver·sa·tile/ˈvərsətl/
Adjective: 1.Able to adapt or be adapted to many different functions or activities
Id say the dog meets the "standard". According to Webster and the FRPSA.
The broad definition of 'versatile' is being misapplied TO euro hunting dogs.
Im telling you that the Creators/Founders of these types of dogs defined what, how and why, and its clearly provided.
You make yourself look foolish quoting Websters, Wiki or other non hunting sources.
Re: A True Versatile Gun Dog
BillElhewPointer wrote:Bill, Bill, Bill. These are the FRPSA standards. Sorry, just playing by the guidelines.BillThomas wrote:What in the bloody heck does Websters know about the concept of Versatile Dogs?ElhewPointer wrote:ver·sa·tile/ˈvərsətl/
Adjective: 1.Able to adapt or be adapted to many different functions or activities
Id say the dog meets the "standard". According to Webster and the FRPSA.
The broad definition of 'versatile' is being misapplied TO euro hunting dogs.
Im telling you that the Creators/Founders of these types of dogs defined what, how and why, and its clearly provided.
You make yourself look foolish quoting Websters, Wiki or other non hunting sources.
As the creator/founder of th FRPSA I can use the websters definition if I so choose. It applies very well to our one registered animal so I am going to choose to use it. Thank you for your contribution to the betterment of the sport Elhew!
“Heaven goes by favor. If it went by merit, you would stay out and your dog would go in.”
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Re: A True Versatile Gun Dog
You can.Garrison wrote: Bill
As the creator/founder of th FRPSA I can use the websters definition if I so choose. It applies very well to our one registered animal so I am going to choose to use it. Thank you for your contribution to the betterment of the sport Elhew!
And it wouldnt make you look any less foolish around Versatile dog men.
This is a versatile (Breed) dog.
Retrieving Seal in Iceland
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Re: A True Versatile Gun Dog
Yeah... Garrison is the one who looks foolish right now.
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Re: A True Versatile Gun Dog
Forgot this one!!!
Re: A True Versatile Gun Dog
+1romeo212000 wrote:Yeah... Garrison is the one who looks foolish right now.
Re: A True Versatile Gun Dog
I had given up...but with my man Garrison and the tru blue American version of the versatile, hope springs eternal. I will gladly buy the chapter a drink on my next trip to the central valley
Re: A True Versatile Gun Dog
Bill
We have thought about adding those elements to our event but with the state of the economy and all we spent our last $6 on shells. Needless to say we didn't have the economic means to acquire the needed lobbyist to change current state law. Then we got to the Iceland seal thing, well the dog gets car sick and we didn't want to put him on the plane.
I had no idea that Ohio was the new Safari destination.
We have thought about adding those elements to our event but with the state of the economy and all we spent our last $6 on shells. Needless to say we didn't have the economic means to acquire the needed lobbyist to change current state law. Then we got to the Iceland seal thing, well the dog gets car sick and we didn't want to put him on the plane.
I had no idea that Ohio was the new Safari destination.
“Heaven goes by favor. If it went by merit, you would stay out and your dog would go in.”
- Mark Twain-
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Re: A True Versatile Gun Dog
The FRPSA gives me new found hope for the state of California... well done gentlemen... now, can I still attend said training days, with my case of beer as dues and bring my "versatile" dog according to Mr. Thomas' German definition in hopes of learning the appropriate techniques to also be also judged versatile according to the Webster definition?
Re: A True Versatile Gun Dog
And the club would be proud to return the favor! Feel free to bring any of your trial dogs, Old Sparky would be happy to show them the ropes.Chukar12 wrote:I had given up...but with my man Garrison and the tru blue American version of the versatile, hope springs eternal. I will gladly buy the chapter a drink on my next trip to the central valley
“Heaven goes by favor. If it went by merit, you would stay out and your dog would go in.”
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Re: A True Versatile Gun Dog
Deuce wrote:The FRPSA gives me new found hope for the state of California... well done gentlemen... now, can I still attend said training days, with my case of beer as dues and bring my "versatile" dog according to Mr. Thomas' German definition in hopes of learning the appropriate techniques to also be also judged versatile according to the Webster definition?
Sure, but I am running out of porch real quick!
“Heaven goes by favor. If it went by merit, you would stay out and your dog would go in.”
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Re: A True Versatile Gun Dog
What you mean, Bill, is that it means what you want it to mean. No more and no less.BillThomas wrote: The word Versatile, as used by Bird Hunters is a canard, and disingenuous in how its used and errantly applied by so many here.
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Re: A True Versatile Gun Dog
Bill, no doubt you have a wonderful versatile dog. And you are completely within your right to be proud of that dog and his breeding. However, most here don't appreciate a dog that potters around with his nose to the ground searching for anything that gives off scent. Many here prefer 100% bird dogs (me included) and they come in many forms. It's obvious you are here to stir $hit and that's fine to an extent. It's been very entertaining. I think most would agree that our beautiful 100% bird dogs flying across the ground would not do as well in your "genre", same as your 25% bird dog would not fair well in the field trials that so many here enjoy. No sense in arguing, it's getting old.
Good luck in your endeavors,
Steve
Oh, and by the way Garrison, great job on the dove hunt.
Good luck in your endeavors,
Steve
Oh, and by the way Garrison, great job on the dove hunt.
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Re: A True Versatile Gun Dog
Garrison: Now that is a dog a real dog that truly works for the rights of all Americans to enjoy life liberty and beer. One more event that may fit right in is the run off the trolls like Bill Thomas.
That dog reflects why good all American Versatility works in what ever we strive to do. Love it.
Bill Thomas: no one else will say it so I will ( they are too decent and don't want to stoop to your level) But I will. You are a blooming idiot with no sense of humor no gentalmanly qualities, no intellegence and no real reason to exist on this forum other than to be a complete AZZ$$$ and to stir up the pot to get reactions and you have done it very well. How many of the photos were of you and your quarry? Is the photo of the chick you and this is your cycle week and just trying to make men suffer your wrath. Or did your fine versatile dog run out of steam after a mear three or four hours and you just need to fill your time. Your life must really suck.
I always thought the english were supposed to be more proper than we Americans.
Rick
That dog reflects why good all American Versatility works in what ever we strive to do. Love it.
Bill Thomas: no one else will say it so I will ( they are too decent and don't want to stoop to your level) But I will. You are a blooming idiot with no sense of humor no gentalmanly qualities, no intellegence and no real reason to exist on this forum other than to be a complete AZZ$$$ and to stir up the pot to get reactions and you have done it very well. How many of the photos were of you and your quarry? Is the photo of the chick you and this is your cycle week and just trying to make men suffer your wrath. Or did your fine versatile dog run out of steam after a mear three or four hours and you just need to fill your time. Your life must really suck.
I always thought the english were supposed to be more proper than we Americans.
Rick
The best part of training is seeing the light come on in your little prot'eg'e.
Rick
Rick
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Re: A True Versatile Gun Dog
Boy if I didn't live half way across the country, I would join your group in a heart beat! That sounds like the real deal to me and the true meaning of versatile . I may send a donation anyway and in the meantime, maybe try to get a chapter started here in the midwest. I am rethinking my breed of choice...You got any pups coming soon???! Great job Garrison!!!
Charlie
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Re: A True Versatile Gun Dog
At every poker table, one player is usually considered by the rest to be "an easy mark." If you don't know who that is, it's you! Bill T., in this case, I'd say you're it...
Re: A True Versatile Gun Dog
Now that right there is just funny! Canard???? Errantly???? Really????????????????The word Versatile, as used by Bird Hunters is a canard, and disingenuous in how its used and errantly applied by so many here.
I'm wondering how many beers a dog has to fetch, and from what it must be fetched from to qualify for a top dog award? Are there style points for getting it out of a fridge? Cooler? And can you explain the point system?
I may just have one of those dogs sitting here...
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Re: A True Versatile Gun Dog
Sorry Charlie no pups on the way, my buddy had to get him clipped because he was a little too good at hunting fur!birddogger wrote:Boy if I didn't live half way across the country, I would join your group in a heart beat! That sounds like the real deal to me and the true meaning of versatile . I may send a donation anyway and in the meantime, maybe try to get a chapter started here in the midwest. I am rethinking my breed of choice...You got any pups coming soon???! Great job Garrison!!!
Charlie
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Re: A True Versatile Gun Dog
Bill, or Bull, or what ever. Shut the heck up, you obviously dont which end of a dog to feed. You and chiggers are the only thing that get under my skin!
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Re: A True Versatile Gun Dog
Garrison,too late for entries? They fast but handle.
Fear the beard
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Re: A True Versatile Gun Dog
The second kick from a mule is of very little educational value - from Wing and Shot.
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Re: A True Versatile Gun Dog
tn red wrote:Garrison,too late for entries? They fast but handle.
Fear the beard
TN Red
The second dog pictured is no problem, but some of the membership has voiced concerns about the first dog looking to be a little pointerish, go ahead send over a copy of the pedigree and I am sure it will clear everything up.
“Heaven goes by favor. If it went by merit, you would stay out and your dog would go in.”
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Re: A True Versatile Gun Dog
Sorry to hear that anyone would question lil White Rails Rebel pedigree
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Re: A True Versatile Gun Dog
Too funny!
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Re: A True Versatile Gun Dog
I am not sure what made me laugh harder, the intent of the thread or the guy trying to hi-jack it! Either way, I spit my coffee out more than once. Thanks for the laughs!
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Re: A True Versatile Gun Dog
Anyone happen to know when cheetah season opens? Think I'm gonna give it a try with my AA-bred pointer this year.
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Re: A True Versatile Gun Dog
Guess I need to surf the web and post up some pictures of other peoples dogs doing things that I have never done.
Re: A True Versatile Gun Dog
The dog doesn't actually have to fetch the beer, it just has to look good while attempting to. Picking up of said bottle or can tends to lower the head and move the tail to a 11:45 position, totally unacceptable.fuzznut wrote:Now that right there is just funny! Canard???? Errantly???? Really????????????????The word Versatile, as used by Bird Hunters is a canard, and disingenuous in how its used and errantly applied by so many here.
I'm wondering how many beers a dog has to fetch, and from what it must be fetched from to qualify for a top dog award? Are there style points for getting it out of a fridge? Cooler? And can you explain the point system?
I may just have one of those dogs sitting here...
Fuzz
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Re: A True Versatile Gun Dog
Here's a fair point systemjarbo03 wrote:The dog doesn't actually have to fetch the beer, it just has to look good while attempting to. Picking up of said bottle or can tends to lower the head and move the tail to a 11:45 position, totally unacceptable.fuzznut wrote:Now that right there is just funny! Canard???? Errantly???? Really????????????????The word Versatile, as used by Bird Hunters is a canard, and disingenuous in how its used and errantly applied by so many here.
I'm wondering how many beers a dog has to fetch, and from what it must be fetched from to qualify for a top dog award? Are there style points for getting it out of a fridge? Cooler? And can you explain the point system?
I may just have one of those dogs sitting here...
Fuzz
3 points for a retreive to hand on the beer
bonus if he opens said beer
2 points to open the fridge
1 point to guard the truck
DQ for not guarding the truck
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Re: A True Versatile Gun Dog
I'm going to have to look into one of labs that looks suspiciously like a rott.ElhewPointer wrote: DQ for not guarding the truck
Re: A True Versatile Gun Dog
TraditionsGSPs2010 wrote:I am not sure what made me laugh harder, the intent of the thread or the guy trying to hi-jack it! Either way, I spit my coffee out more than once. Thanks for the laughs!
Sometimes you have to go trolling for the trolls!
Last edited by Garrison on Wed Jun 13, 2012 9:20 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: A True Versatile Gun Dog
[quote=]
The dog doesn't actually have to fetch the beer, it just has to look good while attempting to. Picking up of said bottle or can tends to lower the head and move the tail to a 11:45 position, totally unacceptable.[/quote]
Here's a fair point system
3 points for a retreive to hand on the beer
bonus if he opens said beer
2 points to open the fridge
1 point to guard the truck
DQ for not guarding the truck[/quote]
I could see this being very difficult for the Irish Setter
The dog doesn't actually have to fetch the beer, it just has to look good while attempting to. Picking up of said bottle or can tends to lower the head and move the tail to a 11:45 position, totally unacceptable.[/quote]
Here's a fair point system
3 points for a retreive to hand on the beer
bonus if he opens said beer
2 points to open the fridge
1 point to guard the truck
DQ for not guarding the truck[/quote]
I could see this being very difficult for the Irish Setter
- prairiefirepointers
- Rank: 5X Champion
- Posts: 1142
- Joined: Mon Sep 01, 2008 11:34 am
- Location: Pretty Prairie, Kansas USA
Re: A True Versatile Gun Dog
It falls somewhere in-between Musk Ox and Yak season.ckirsch wrote:Anyone happen to know when cheetah season opens? Think I'm gonna give it a try with my AA-bred pointer this year.
Coop,ACooper wrote:Guess I need to surf the web and post up some pictures of other peoples dogs doing things that I have never done.
Make sure you have "Safe Search" on... Otherwise, you may indeed find some things done with dogs you have never done. LMBO
Jess Stucky
Prairie Fire Pointers & Supply
Pretty Prairie, KS
http://www.prairiefirepointers.com
http://www.prairiefirepointersupply.com
'Distinguished Dogs for the Discriminating Hunter'
Doesn't Your Dog Deserve The Best?
"Add clarity to your life, see through the eyes of a dog"
Prairie Fire Pointers & Supply
Pretty Prairie, KS
http://www.prairiefirepointers.com
http://www.prairiefirepointersupply.com
'Distinguished Dogs for the Discriminating Hunter'
Doesn't Your Dog Deserve The Best?
"Add clarity to your life, see through the eyes of a dog"