Pointer Bloodline Traits

[JoshHaker]

I have been researching pointers and learning about the different bloodlines. I have read the poll that was posted but it didn't shed much light on the characteristics of the different lines such as looks (like the white dogs, Miller) size, temperament and so on.

Recently I was around a miller female that looked like riggins white night (awesome looking dog) the woman that owned her said that she was amazed at the natural ability of that dog. She also sais that she was like a cat in the house you barely knew she was there but in the field boy could she run. Is this typical of miller dogs or is there great variation?

[Stoneface]

Moxy's the first Pointer that I've owned. I've owned other hard-core breeds, like my Malinois, that should only be owned by an experienced owner, so I put stock in the rumors I heard about Pointers being terrible pets. Over the past year-and-half I've really isolated my involvement with birddogs to just Pointers and I'll tell you, I feel like I've stumbled onto a pot of gold.

Right now I've got two Pointers in the house, Moxy and a male I'm holding/training for a friend because he has decided to try out Pointers, too. This dog's name is Slim. Moxy's like the energizer bunny and when she's in the house she's buzzing all over, looking for flies, but I wouldn't say she's hard-headed. Until she came into a little bit of a rebellious stage recently she's been VERY biddable and maleable and only wouldn't listen when people were walking by and she was going to them for some lovin'. I can call her off of birds, rabbits, cats, anything, but she'll push through an eCollar if there's someone walking down the side walk and Moxy decides it's time to become the center of attention. At night I slip on my bed and Moxy sleeps on me. Simple as that. If I'm going to toss or turn, I just say "Moxy," then she gets off me and stands there until I'm turned, then I say "come on" and she's back climbing Mt. Rowdy.

In the house Slim's a little different. I've never seen a dog like to retreive as much as him. His first priority when he comes in is to make trips from the hamper to me, bringing me every piece of dirty clothes, one piece at a time. When I have the whole hamper's worth at my feet, he starts looking for rags near the edge of the counter to pull off and bring to me. When I let him out of the dog box he always pick up something, from a bucket to an eCollar, and carries it around the yard until we go in. When he's done with his retrieving ritual he lays down by my feet and goes to sleep. He's going home in one week from today, I'm going to miss him.

When he first came to stay with us I put him out back because he wasn't house broke (he was raised in a dog run until he was over a year old then and when I started letting him in the house he only messed twice and never again) and he started barking. I tried a figure eight, I tried a bark collar, nothing worked. Finally, one night when he woke me up after a long night, I went out back, cussed him pretty good and he just melted. He didn't bark again for a couple nights, then the girls came into season at the same time and he was not a happy camper! That was a marathon, but after they came out of season I scolded him again for barking and he shut up. That simple.

In the field, I've come to love Pointers. They take training so well and Slim, I'm sure, is an intellectual mutant. I've never seen anything like him. To teach him to Whoa I pulled up on his collar firmly, said Whoa, then walked away. He's broken a Whoa twice, once because the bird flew right over his head, but I gave a verbal comman and he stopped (when I say I "taught" him to Whoa, I mean I've been working with him, but I haven't made him stay put while I chuck birds at him or anything). A pigeon that I released actually landed while the dogs were chasing them one day and Slim tackled it. Picked it up and carried it around for awhile. When I finally wrestled it away from him the bird was fine, save some saliva, so I chucked him into the air and he went back to the coop.

Moxy retrieves, too, and I'll often times take my hat off and have a round of fetch with her when we're just bored, hanging out. She's super intense on point and was self-steadied. What I mean is, after just several session of releasing birds in the field and letting her work them on her own, without interference from me, she went on to take first in four of the seven stakes she was entered in during her first year of trialing. She really just makes me shake my head every day, but I'm sure most people on this board knows what I mean. Birddogs are amazing in general and the more I'm around them the more I find myself grinning and just shaking my head. They are anomalies in the dog world. What's most noticeable about Moxy is her charisma. She's always wagging her tail. I always know when I'm petting a dog if it's Moxy (when I'm not looking at the dog) because her body is moving just a little from the momentum of her tail wagging.

In just the year-and-half I've been really investing my time to learn the breed and be around as many as possible I've found out that they really are wonderful dogs. I was at a trial in October when one almost took my leg off! But, he's the exception to the rule and every breed has their odd balls. Overall, I think Pointers have a bum wrap as braingless, fire-breathing, ground-eating, frigid kennel dogs. It's a shame because I think a lot of people just never give them a chance because of that reputation/image. I believe nothing could be farther from the truth than this stereotype.

I'm anxious to see what others post about Pointers on this thread. It's a good topic. Sorry I couldn't post more on specific traits with respect to specific lines, but I don't want to speak out of ignorance.

[Cajun Casey]

Most pointers are 180 on/off dogs, regardless of the bloodline. I have a Miller looking rescue dog that curls up in an itty bitty ball when he rides up front, so the cat comparison is valid.

[bonasa]

Pointers are athletes and need to run it off. My young female 13months more so than my 5yo male. He gets roaded 40 min 3 or 4 days a week and free run an hour two other days. The young one gets free running and various exercises about an hour a day, everyday. Both are in the house and "catlike" curled up somewhere. Should I choose not to run either of them and they are full of energy much in the same way that stoneface described.

[tommyboy72]

Right now I have 3 pointers and have had several others and as Casey stated to a T everyone was a 180 on/off dog. Everyone was a joy in the house and just want attention and to find a place to lay down. Even the female I took in and whelped out a litter for Texasdogtrainer was the same and she had been a kennel dog for her entire life as far as I am aware. I have a Fiddler/Miller female, a full Miller female and a male some on this website have called scatter bred but I like to call him heavy bred Fiddler, whatever, and all are calm and docile in the house, love attention and house trained very easily but in the field they run big, are fast, have good stamina and find birds as good as any other pointers I have been around. All the pointers out of several different bloodlines have all been this way.

[rinker]

I have had several pointers over the years. I have migrated from mostly elhew pointers to mostly miller pointers. The traits that I like in the millers are present in all pointer lines, but I find them a little more consistently with the millers. I find a high percentage of them to be natural front runners. They find the front on their own and stay there, and find it again quickly when you change directions. Most have good noses. Most of them look good running and on point. They are trainable and intelligent. Again, you can find these traits in any line or breed of pointing dog, but I am finding that the miller dogs consistently have them.

[Stoneface]

Pointers are cole, frigid dogs that don't like people.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MoB84-oZmw4&feature=plcp

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xlO_KInPlJU&feature=plcp

[gotpointers]

I have had several pointers over the years. I have migrated from mostly elhew pointers to mostly miller pointers. The traits that I like in the millers are present in all pointer lines, but I find them a little more consistently with the millers. I find a high percentage of them to be natural front runners. They find the front on their own and stay there, and find it again quickly when you change directions. Most have good noses. Most of them look good running and on point. They are trainable and intelligent. Again, you can find these traits in any line or breed of pointing dog, but I am finding that the miller dogs consistently have them.

I will second that.

[JoshHaker]

How about size? What is an average size of a miller dog verse an HTA or Elhew. How about color? Some have said that HTA dogs can be colored like shorthairs. Does anyone have pics of some of the different bloodlines.

[gotpointers]

How about size? What is an average size of a miller dog verse an HTA or Elhew. How about color? Some have said that HTA dogs can be colored like shorthairs. Does anyone have pics of some of the different bloodlines.

Riggins White Knight is one i really like the look of.
if you want something like that look towards Miller, Whippoorwill, Additions Go Boy, Lesters breedings.

Both my Hta direct offspring had been small with lots of liver much like you mention a shorthair coloration.

My Miller dogs are tall and nearly all white with slight orange or lemon ticking on their ears.
True Elhew dogs were usually evenly masked and usually liver, orange or black. Whele tried hard not to have what he called abscence of color dogs. Don't jump my butt but i think he said he hated lemon. They can also be sizeable dogs and most often have a jawline i can recognize
Many of the lines that dominate certain venues also are going to be appropriately sized. Grouse woods often a smaller dog. The AA are going to be big dogs usually.
There's many pointer lines out there . I can't even begin to give you a good perfectly accurate history. But i can point you in the right directionof someone who did. Over on the field trialer there's a thread you may enjoy that has many past and present pointer lines and many pictures of the greats. Its called the english pointer and his family tree. Its by Steeple and he's still adding chapters to the story. I will link it. Its a great read especially for someone considering their first pointer and wondering what line is for them.

[gotpointers]

Heres the link to " the American Pointer and his family tree."

http://www.thefieldtrialer.com/forum/vi ... =12&t=2348

[Stoneface]

GP, you're right about Wehle. He said he didn't exclude any color from his program except the "pale yellow." And I'm with you on an Elhew head, you can spot them from a mile away.

This is Moxy the day I brought her home (and she decided she was an interior decorator, taking it upon herself the rearrange the apartment). I posted some photos of her and everyone thought she was a Shorthair. She's a direct grand daughter of Go Boy on bottom and Attitude on top. These days when you see her you can see she favors Attitude more than Go Boy.

[gotpointers]

I have had several pointers over the years. I have migrated from mostly elhew pointers to mostly miller pointers. The traits that I like in the millers are present in all pointer lines, but I find them a little more consistently with the millers. I find a high percentage of them to be natural front runners. They find the front on their own and stay there, and find it again quickly when you change directions. Most have good noses. Most of them look good running and on point. They are trainable and intelligent. Again, you can find these traits in any line or breed of pointing dog, but I am finding that the miller dogs consistently have them.

I agree completely. I am taking my Millers Ghost Rider. And White Powder sons back to most of my other females with the exception of my Elhew to Rockacre and my HTA to Go-boy.