Coyotes and Birddogs.

Stoneface · Post by **Stoneface** » Fri Jun 29, 2012 9:11 pm

Virtually all of America has coyotes and I've certainly heard or seen them when I've been out with dogs. There's plenty of them out where I train but they usually don't bother me or the dogs and do well to stay out of site. Today, though, I heard them howling in the trees about 60 yards away and then saw one at about 40 yards. She wasn't coming at us, but she wasn't definately a little interested. She was a juvenile so I'm thinking her cuiosity may have just got the best of her. I wound up getting in the pickup and chasing her back into the trees.

Anybody ever have trouble with coyotes on their dogs? You hear stories about wolves and big cats, but I've never heard anything about coyotes.

gmanksu · Post by **gmanksu** » Fri Jun 29, 2012 9:24 pm

never had trouble while running dogs. However, our neighbor lost a house dog to a pack of 'yotes. They let the dog out to do his business before bed, I had heard the Coyotes yipping all night then all of a sudden dead silence. 10 minutes later I hear the neighbor hollering in their pasture for the dog, never saw a trace of him (Shitzu make a good meal for the pack I do believe). I have had the dogs staked out at my cousins house which is down your way Rowdy and had the 'yotes try to lure them out of the yard into the pasture to set the ambush.

Birddog3412 · Post by **Birddog3412** » Fri Jun 29, 2012 9:43 pm

Never had any issues with a dog getting hurt but I have killed several while hunting. 4 years ago I was free running two of my dogs off my 4 wheeler. A coyote was running along with us. He was within 20 or so yards at one point. I headed to the house with the dogs, put them up and grabbed a shotgun. I dont have to worry about him anymore.

Post by **Sharon** » Fri Jun 29, 2012 9:45 pm

Coyotes take smaller dogs. My JRT is always at risk, although he'd put up a heck of a fight. I carry pepper spray , no gun allowed .

http://kitchener.ctvnews.ca/coyotes-bla ... e-1.752070

ckirsch · Post by **ckirsch** » Fri Jun 29, 2012 9:46 pm

I have a pack living in the timbered ravines behind my house (on the edge of town) that are very bold. My older pointer has been jumped twice, once in the middle of the day, in the back yard, while I was standing about forty feet away. The dog held his own both times, had a few cuts and punctures, but nothing serious. Had I not been there to intervene it might have been a little tougher on him. I also had a yote come after a Weim pup that I was walking a few years back. It followed us for 3-400 yards, staying about twenty yards away, until I got back to the truck. Several of my neighbors have had similar experiences. One down the street has two small white terriers that he stakes out in his lawn at night, and they yip constantly. I've warned him that one of these nights he's going to find bloody collars on the end of the chains when he goes out to get his dogs, but he doesn't take me seriously. (I won't be all that upset when those dogs are gone, as the yapping gets tiresome.)

I imagine there will be those who say their dogs kill coyotes with ease, but that hasn't been my experience. A 40-pound coyote can put a hurting on most dogs. The guys that run them with hounds typically use four at a time, and they use big greyhound / deerhound crosses that usually go 80 - 100 pounds each. Those dogs wear impressive scars after a season or two of action.

I'd keep a close eye on your dogs when you're working them, if you have coyotes in the area.

JoshHaker · Post by **JoshHaker** » Fri Jun 29, 2012 9:49 pm

The last time i was out training i was letting my shorthair run in this field which is a few hundred acres. As i was walking with him out in front of me i noticed this coyote watching us. He was about 75yds away on a fence row /treeline. He did go off the other way after i stared him down for few minutes. Im not sure how long he was watching us but it was at least four or five minutes. This was around 11am. Now i dont think he was going to attack but I have seen them us dogs when hunting coyotes to keep them hanging around a calling setup. They dont seem to be afraid of the dogs.

tn red · Post by **tn red** » Fri Jun 29, 2012 9:55 pm

Ive had young yotes come close to dogs in the field but no problems.Sean Kelly had a dog killed last year by a pair of yotes tho.

asc · Post by **asc** » Fri Jun 29, 2012 9:58 pm

We run deer with dogs, beagles and walkers or crosses of the two.
Lots of yotes here and even though we run packs, dogs always get separated, on cool days some dogs will just get in the creeks and wander around all day, can't catch em and they won't come in. They get hungry after a night out and are ready for the box next morning. We lose dogs every year, snakes, cars, and gators.
Never lost one to a coyote.

Stoneface · Post by **Stoneface** » Fri Jun 29, 2012 10:15 pm

I haven't seen a hawk over the training grounds in months, so I usually leave the gun at home. I do believe I'll put it in the pickup my next trip out.

That's trippy about the Coyotes trying lure the dogs out. I've heard of that. That would be wild to see.

Cajun Casey · Post by **Cajun Casey** » Fri Jun 29, 2012 10:20 pm

Stoneface wrote:I haven't seen a hawk over the training grounds in months, so I usually leave the gun at home. I do believe I'll put it in the pickup my next trip out.

That's trippy about the Coyotes trying lure the dogs out. I've heard of that. That would be wild to see.

What do hawks have to do with guns?

Ghosted3 · Post by **Ghosted3** » Fri Jun 29, 2012 10:31 pm

Myself my friend and his uncle were talking about this at work tonight, and my friend's grandfather wants to get a few guys out there at his farm house and try to pop off a few of the coyotes because there is a fairly large pack that lurks around that area.

Corry

birddog1968 · Post by **birddog1968** » Fri Jun 29, 2012 10:39 pm

Had a yote cut in front of me and behind the dogs in North Dakota few years ago..... Don't know what his intentions were, but i sent him packing , he watched from a railroad bed above us after that...big SOB.

MO_GSP · Post by **MO_GSP** » Fri Jun 29, 2012 10:40 pm

we killed 9 "yotes" within a 1/2 mile radius of the house lat year and they are still out there every night howling away, possibly trying to lure the new pup out but hes in a kennel with a top he'll be fine

Garrison · Post by **Garrison** » Fri Jun 29, 2012 10:43 pm

In the fields I have never had a problem they just take off, in my folks avocado groves at night is another story, I have lost a dog and two neighbors have lost dogs including a Rottweiler and a Chessie mix. When they pack up they can be pretty nasty creatures.

Stoneface · Post by **Stoneface** » Fri Jun 29, 2012 11:10 pm

http://www.rockin7ranch.com/2007season.htm

Check out the last photo on this site, way at the bottom. Does that look photoshoped to anyone? I mean, that's bigger than any wolf I've ever seen, not to mention a coyote.

Ghosted3 · Post by **Ghosted3** » Fri Jun 29, 2012 11:47 pm

"bleep" was that thing on roids or something? That was frikkin huge!

Corry

birddogger · Post by **birddogger** » Sat Jun 30, 2012 12:53 am

Does that look photoshoped to anyone?

Ya, there is no way I am buying that one. :roll:

Charlie

Nick Miles · Post by **Nick Miles** » Sat Jun 30, 2012 2:21 am

In my part of the world we have Jackal. They are not a huge danger to the dogs, but what is a worry in some areas is that some farmers or farmers neighbors put poison down to control the predators as they can decimate sheep stocks. Not sure if you guys will have the same uncontrolled poisoning going on there, but it worries me from time to time especially hunting on new farms or near farms border fences. They call it "two-step"... so named as it's the number of steps you'd take if you ingest it.

Stoneface · Post by **Stoneface** » Sat Jun 30, 2012 3:44 am

That's rough, Nick. I've never had to worry with poison, but traps are certainly an issue. If we're in a secluded place and my dogs are gone too long without checking in I start sweating bullets. The steel traps bother me, but it's the snares that really worry me. A dog gets caught and his instinct is to fight, but the more he fights the tighter the snare gets. Get a dog around a neck and I would imagine you wouldn't be able to hear him yell because of the restriction around his throat. Just scares me to death.

Stoneface · Post by **Stoneface** » Sat Jun 30, 2012 3:51 am

Nick Miles · Post by **Nick Miles** » Sat Jun 30, 2012 6:35 am

That's sad stuff man. Snares are also a bit of an issue in this part of the world. Further north people still actively poach in private reserves. This is pretty graphic and apologies for off topic: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... zania.html

jimbo&rooster · Post by **jimbo&rooster** » Sat Jun 30, 2012 6:56 am

we ave some "coyotes" that are big like that...... generally yote x dog when they get much over 50lbs. These "coydogs are a serious problem here because they are more agressive. When we had hounds we worked pretty close with a local biologist and of the 100-150 yotes our group killed a year I dont remember a single one over 50lbs that he could prove was 100% yote.

As far as yotes and bird dogs, I talked to a guy who lost a boykin to a yote last season, but I have never had an issue personally.

Jim

Big Dave · Post by **Big Dave** » Sat Jun 30, 2012 7:43 am

Maybe one of the West Coast guys could chime in here but I remember that Ch Kelly's Talkin' Smak was killed by coyotes.

BigShooter · Post by **BigShooter** » Sat Jun 30, 2012 9:01 am

Spring of the year can be a more hazardous time as yotes won't tolerate a dog near their young. I understand about six-seven years ago a young dog was killed by yotes during a spring field trial. Apparently the young dog went off course and eventually entered some woods where a coyote den had been known to exist. Lost for a short time the dog was found savaged by the yotes. The horseback trial grounds we use are in a County owned Park Reserve used for camping, hiking, horseback riding & field trials. It's located in what is now nearly a NW suburb of a Metropolitan Area with a population of 4,000,000. As a park reserve the predators are not controlled.

Every year we see lots of coyotes in ND while hunting. Most often they're spotted popping out of cattail slews the dog or dogs are working. Invariably they are solo & move away quickly. All of the ranchers I know encourage their elimination.

AzDoggin · Post by **AzDoggin** » Sat Jun 30, 2012 9:14 am

BigShooter wrote: All of the ranchers I know encourage their elimination.

Oh yeah, same in Nebraska. Most carry a "ranch gun" in their trucks for that purpose. I remember as a kid watching guys run the 'yotes with greyhounds. It was very common when out pheasant hunting to see a pickup with half a dozen or more dog boxes on a custom bed cruising the dirt roads looking for coyotes.

taxidermy · Post by **taxidermy** » Sat Jun 30, 2012 10:15 am

I had some coyotes go after my big setter[55lb] about 460 yards out ,2 seasons ago [watched it on gps],after unloading my gun 3 times [9 shots] my dog started heading in.
when he came out of the field he was dragging his rear and was all red with blood ;his back legs still are not the same ;there must have been 2 or 3 on him.

Cajun Casey · Post by **Cajun Casey** » Sat Jun 30, 2012 10:19 am

I have had one make it back alive after getting nailed by a pack. Evil, how they rip the hind legs and try to gut a dog. She was lucky to have not gotten a severed femoral out of the ordeal because the inside of her leg was laid open.

Post by **slistoe** » Sat Jun 30, 2012 10:42 am

A neighbor lost his GSD to a pack of coyotes - a single yote lured the dog away and the pack attacked. I lost a setter to coyotes - she headed after one and was never seen again. I had a coyote come after my dog when training and when I called the dog in it would not leave - my 10 year old son hit it with rocks trying to scare it away. It finally moved off to about 150 yards when I charged at it emptying my starter pistol as I went. That gave us enough leeway to make a move back to the truck.
So, coyotes can be a problem, but with the density of them that we have around here I don't think the general coyote populace is on much of a mission to get dogs. I shot 6 yotes out the windows of my house last year. That is about normal.

Post by **slistoe** » Sat Jun 30, 2012 10:43 am

Cajun Casey wrote: Evil, how they rip the hind legs and try to gut a dog.

That is how they kill deer as well. I have come across numerous coyote kills on deer. Deer and wolves are the absolute most brutal predators.

Post by **ezzy333** » Sat Jun 30, 2012 11:15 am

My only experience with yotes is they are extremely timid. But then I haven't seen many in recent years when I had the dogs along. I hear them here at home but the neighbors tell me that since I moved in with the Britts they don't see them anymore either. In years past I have had the dogs jump a couple but I never had a shot at them as they were in high gear heading out. The years I spent in OK and Kansas we hunted them with hounds some but never heard of them doing much damage except to the sheep ranchers. I do remember seeing a couple when we were out fishing all night but usually just heard them as they howled nearby. This aggressiveness I keep hearing about is all new to me and certainly foriegn to the coyotes history.

Ezzy

gotpointers · Post by **gotpointers** » Sat Jun 30, 2012 12:04 pm

We have frequent coyote calling competitions with cash and prizes here in nm. The antis hate it the ranchers love it and i do too. I kill them any chance i get. Never had a dog scuffle with one but they do show up in the distance when i am out running dogs. I don't shoot them while my dogs are loose. I don't my dogs to catch any diseases or parisites from them.

Post by **slistoe** » Sat Jun 30, 2012 12:06 pm

At one time pelts were worth $125 each. Hunting was allowed with hounds and just about any other means you could think of. The populations were held in check and the ones that were around were very timid. Then the fur market died which killed incentive, the anti-hunting lobby shut down the guys running hounds, the anti-gun lobby eliminated folks driving around with rifles at the ready, etc. The coyote pops are very high and we have not seen a rebound in the small game animal cycles for 20 years. The coyotes are hungry and not afraid of people. There have been incidences of coyotes attacking dogs and small children in the city of Calgary where folks thought it was "cute" to see them in the natural areas of the city. We are raising generations of top of the food chain predators (coyotes, wolves, bears, cougars) who do not regard humans as the "top predator" but increasingly we are becoming "prey" status.

Ghosted3 · Post by **Ghosted3** » Sat Jun 30, 2012 12:18 pm

After reading this over again, this makes me want to carry my .45 or my .357 with me when I go hunting from now on lol.

Corry

Post by **slistoe** » Sat Jun 30, 2012 12:22 pm

At point blank range a full load from your shotgun carries far more impact energy than any sidearm will.

BigShooter · Post by **BigShooter** » Sat Jun 30, 2012 12:44 pm

slistoe wrote:At point blank range a full load from your shotgun carries far more impact energy than any sidearm will.

True. That's why some of the smarter guys carry short shotguns when salmon fishing in grizzly country. Naturally shotshell load makes all the difference beyond point blank range. 6 shot even at 18-20 yards isn't a guaranteed kill shot on a good sized yote in the fall.

AzDoggin · Post by **AzDoggin** » Sat Jun 30, 2012 1:15 pm

slistoe wrote:At one time pelts were worth $125 each. Hunting was allowed with hounds and just about any other means you could think of. The populations were held in check and the ones that were around were very timid. Then the fur market died which killed incentive, the anti-hunting lobby shut down the guys running hounds, the anti-gun lobby eliminated folks driving around with rifles at the ready, etc. The coyote pops are very high and we have not seen a rebound in the small game animal cycles for 20 years. The coyotes are hungry and not afraid of people. There have been incidences of coyotes attacking dogs and small children in the city of Calgary where folks thought it was "cute" to see them in the natural areas of the city. We are raising generations of top of the food chain predators (coyotes, wolves, bears, cougars) who do not regard humans as the "top predator" but increasingly we are becoming "prey" status.

There are nice custom homes all over the desert here in outerlying areas - of course in the habitat of coyotes. Cats and small dogs don't last long if they stay outside much. The one interesting side effect is that some of the anti's get all over Game and Fish for not managing "those vicious coyotes that killed little Fifi." Every now and then, an anti actually sees the light, and gets a better understanding of game management and the natural balance of predators and prey.

Post by **slistoe** » Sat Jun 30, 2012 5:38 pm

The natural balance of predators and prey has nothing to do with game management. In fact, game management is all about upsetting the natural imbalance and creating a stable balance.

AzDoggin · Post by **AzDoggin** » Sat Jun 30, 2012 7:08 pm

slistoe wrote:The natural balance of predators and prey has nothing to do with game management. In fact, game management is all about upsetting the natural imbalance and creating a stable balance.

Stable or required balance is a better way to define it. It's not natural unless you include man in the equation as the top-of-the-food-chain-but-highly-regulated predator...

dakotashooter2 · Post by **dakotashooter2** » Sun Jul 01, 2012 11:42 am

It's not unusual to see small "packs" of coyotes here in ND. Some farmers have claimed that such packs often try to lure a dog out into an ambush. Don't know if that is tru or not but yotes have definatly become more aggresive. I used to see a yote cross a field through a herd of deer and the deer would hardly lift thier heads. Now they vacate the field if they see one. I'm also told that farm cats are not as prvalent as they once were.

SubMariner · Post by **SubMariner** » Sun Jul 01, 2012 1:38 pm

Our property backs onto conservation land & although it's not as common as I'm sure it once was, I've seen coyotes while running our GSPs back there... always headed in the opposite direction. Some neighbours with smaller dogs have described being confronted by single coyotes who are obviously quite interested in a snack. There have also been reports further south of some smaller dogs being taken by coyotes. None of the coyotes we or our neighbours have seen have been bigger than our 60 lb GSP; in fact most have been smaller.

Hubby told me that last month while running the dogs in a nearby equestrian park/conservation area that the older dog chased a coyote for a bit, but responded to the recall whistle & came back almost immediately.

Meanwhile, since we also have bobcats and FL panthers here, there is no way our dogs are out in the yard at dawn or dusk.

Thinking · Post by **Thinking** » Sun Jul 01, 2012 1:53 pm

We have lots of them around here, the dog has had a couple scraps but nothing major. My buddies GSP got into a scrap with a pack of them in the compost pile a while back, he killed two of them right there and was chasing down a third when my buddy got him to recall.

I always carry some slugs and a few rounds of #4 buck or some Ts in my vest for when I see them.

TM964x4 · Post by **TM964x4** » Sun Jul 01, 2012 7:20 pm

Big Dave wrote:Maybe one of the West Coast guys could chime in here but I remember that Ch Kelly's Talkin' Smak was killed by coyotes.

Smak wasnt actually killed by the coyotes. Sean Kelly was out training him when he saw Smak about 300+yds out being chased by two yotes. He hurried over there and found Smak hiding under a DFG truck unscathed. What actually caused his death was an 8in deep puncture in his chest from a sage brush limb. That dog was something else.
TM

trigger1989 · Post by **trigger1989** » Mon Jul 02, 2012 9:31 pm

Here in az I carry my .40 I'm more worried of the wild piggys then the yotes but I've came across people trying to mess with my dog but not coyotes. In the end its better to carry then not carry.

Christopher · Post by **Christopher** » Mon Jul 02, 2012 10:40 pm

They've barked and howled at my Rudy many times but I have not spotted any close. A few times I wondered if it was a guy with a call, one time I'm certain that is what it was. He wouldn't stop barking at us, all I could see was a pickup parked near the road, no dog in sight.

JKP · Post by **JKP** » Tue Jul 03, 2012 7:50 am

I carry one of these...a light weight drilling-20 gauge over a 22 Savage Hi Power. In the Dakotas, we regularly see coyote within 100 yards. Even if I don't hit them, a bullet slashing usually sends them in the other direction. If I have time, I will snap the scope on. I think these guns may become more popular.

AzDoggin · Post by **AzDoggin** » Tue Jul 03, 2012 8:22 am

JKP wrote:I carry one of these...a light weight drilling-20 gauge over a 22 Savage Hi Power. In the Dakotas, we regularly see coyote within 100 yards. Even if I don't hit them, a bullet slashing usually sends them in the other direction. If I have time, I will snap the scope on. I think these guns may become more popular.

Those are cool. Off bird season you could go with a short version (T/C Contender, .45/410)

gotpointers · Post by **gotpointers** » Tue Jul 03, 2012 9:46 am

JKP wrote:I carry one of these...a light weight drilling-20 gauge over a 22 Savage Hi Power. In the Dakotas, we regularly see coyote within 100 yards. Even if I don't hit them, a bullet slashing usually sends them in the other direction. If I have time, I will snap the scope on. I think these guns may become more popular.

That's a nice one, i can't see the maker on my cell phone but is it a Merkel? Just guessing by seeing the scallops. Maybe Anson Deeley? Sounds like the perfect guage and caliber. If i had a pick i think a 16 over the old 17 remington but it would be heavy i am sure. Maybe when i have a spare 14 k i can find out. Lol

Post by **Sharon** » Tue Jul 03, 2012 11:20 am

SubMariner wrote:Our property backs onto conservation land & although it's not as common as I'm sure it once was, I've seen coyotes while running our GSPs back there... always headed in the opposite direction. Some neighbours with smaller dogs have described being confronted by single coyotes who are obviously quite interested in a snack. There have also been reports further south of some smaller dogs being taken by coyotes. None of the coyotes we or our neighbours have seen have been bigger than our 60 lb GSP; in fact most have been smaller.

Hubby told me that last month while running the dogs in a nearby equestrian park/conservation area that the older dog chased a coyote for a bit, but responded to the recall whistle & came back almost immediately.

Meanwhile, since we also have bobcats and FL panthers here, there is no way our dogs are out in the yard at dawn or dusk.

////////////////////////////////////////////////

I didn't realize that Florida had bobcats and panthers ! I thought we had problems.

JKP - That is a beautiful gun!

SubMariner · Post by **SubMariner** » Tue Jul 03, 2012 6:10 pm

Sharon wrote:
SubMariner wrote:Our property backs onto conservation land & although it's not as common as I'm sure it once was, I've seen coyotes while running our GSPs back there... always headed in the opposite direction. Some neighbours with smaller dogs have described being confronted by single coyotes who are obviously quite interested in a snack. There have also been reports further south of some smaller dogs being taken by coyotes. None of the coyotes we or our neighbours have seen have been bigger than our 60 lb GSP; in fact most have been smaller.

Hubby told me that last month while running the dogs in a nearby equestrian park/conservation area that the older dog chased a coyote for a bit, but responded to the recall whistle & came back almost immediately.

Meanwhile, since we also have bobcats and FL panthers here, there is no way our dogs are out in the yard at dawn or dusk.
////////////////////////////////////////////////

I didn't realize that Florida had bobcats and panthers ! I thought we had problems.

JKP - That is a beautiful gun!

The panthers are actually quite rare/endangered. It just so happens that we live in an area that has a few of them. The bobcats are also being squeezed out by encroachment on their habitat.

That being said, we learned from family who lived up in the Rockies in Alberta that you simply DON'T leave your pets out unattended at dawn or dusk, or you won't have them around for very long. They have bears & mountain lions to contend with up there...

tasi devil · Post by **tasi devil** » Thu Jul 05, 2012 7:24 am

JKP wrote:I carry one of these...a light weight drilling-20 gauge over a 22 Savage Hi Power. In the Dakotas, we regularly see coyote within 100 yards. Even if I don't hit them, a bullet slashing usually sends them in the other direction. If I have time, I will snap the scope on. I think these guns may become more popular.

mines bigger

12x12 - .222 ......... with Briley Paradox rifled chokes to shoot 385g slugs

...........tasi